Ibanez MM1 turning issues: Is my bone nut cut properly?

[Remster]

Hi everyone!

I know I'm probably not the first one nor the last one to come up with tuning issues in regards to their Ibanez AZ or any signature models in that line but I'm trying to overcome the same problem so I thought I'd ask myself as well.

I bought a new Ibanez MM1 Martin Miller signature and almost everything about it is paradise: neck profile, SS frets, the pickups, the dynamix toggle, the finish. The downside is the tuning when either bending string and/or using the T1802 gotoh bridge.

I'll first start by the specific issues and then I'll continue with what I have tried.

*NOTE* Yes I have been stretching my string a lot *NOTE*

Everything is stock and the strings are D'addario NYXL 10-46

- Issues

1. After bending the G string, the B string is sharp and If I bend the B string after, it'll come back in tune or pretty close.
2. After bending the B string, the high E string is sharp and If I bend the high E string after, it'll come back in tune or pretty close...this seems to happen much less often and the degree of sharp is much less than the previous issue.
...somehow the low E, A and D string aren't affected and remain in tune when doing bends either on them or on the G, B and high E.
3. Whenever I dive or pull up with the bridge all the strings return sharp by a variably good amount.

- What I tried

1. Made sure the gotoh locking tuners height adjustment posts were properly locked from behind the tuners with a 1.5 hex key.
2. Tightened the locking caps ever so slightly with a coin to make sure the strings weren't loose in any way. (First time I tried it, I must have turned too much because I broke the high E string) I know they are supposed to lock themselves as we tune the strings after installing a new one but is it an unwritten rule to give it a little extra to make sure it's secure or do you guys just let it do its thing?
3. Made sure the bridge is at the proper angle.

Only things I can think of at this point are these:

- Bridge doesn't return to the proper position?
- The gotoh tuners are just pieces of shit?
- The string tree for the B and high E string is messed up?
- The groove in the saddles aren't smooth enough so the strings are being stuck?
- The bone nut needs to be recut.

I have added pictures of my bone nut and the strings don't seem to be very deep in it, is it normal? I'm only used to play guitars with locking nuts like the Ibanez RG/JEM/JS

Please help!

 

[Crungy]

Is that the same string size these use from the factory?

 

[Crungy]

And have you tried any lubricant in the nut slots?

 

[Remster]

Is that the same string size these use from the factory?

Yes the guitar comes stock with 10-46

 

[Remster]

And have you tried any lubricant in the nut slots?

No but I think I should. Any suggestions on types and brands?

 

[Crungy]

I use the Music Nomad Tune It stuff, works fine for me. Others may have other suggestions that work better or are cheaper though.

 

[Rubbishplayer]

And have you tried any lubricant in the nut slots?

Gotta lube yer nuts!

On a serious note, maybe some gentle smoothing of the slots with 600-1000 grade wet-n-dry and some graphite lube will help.

As I understand it, the MM1 has a more conventional two-point non-locking trem, so IMHO it will never be as fully secure as a full locking trem. If you've been mainly playing locking trems, you'll be used to being a lot more abusive. In my experience, using a more normal 2 pointer trains you to be a little more respectful and eschew massive divebombs. I also find that even a traditional Fender synchronised trem can be brought back into to tune by "cycling" (depress then lift and bring back to zero), but you need to learn to incorporate this into your playing.

 

[Remster]

Gotta lube yer nuts!

On a serious note, maybe some gentle smoothing of the slots with 600-1000 grade wet-n-dry and some graphite lube will help.

As I understand it, the MM1 has a more conventional two-point non-locking trem, so IMHO it will never be as fully secure as a full locking trem. If you've been mainly playing locking trems, you'll be used to being a lot more abusive. In my experience, using a more normal 2 pointer trains you to be a little more respectful and eschew massive divebombs. I also find that even a traditional Fender synchronised trem can be brought back into to tune by "cycling" (depress then lift and bring back to zero), but you need to learn to incorporate this into your playing.

Yeah I'm really not a heavy trem abuser when I play regularly. I have an RG655 and a JS1200 when I want to play Vai/Satriani stuff but I wanted an AZ style guitar to become my main instrument to write my own music and just play and have fun in general. I would never be abusing it.

Where do you get the graphite lube?

 

[Rubbishplayer]

Yeah I'm really not a heavy trem abuser when I play regularly. I have an RG655 and a JS1200 when I want to play Vai/Satriani stuff but I wanted an AZ style guitar to become my main instrument to write my own music and just play and have fun in general. I would never be abusing it.

Where do you get the graphite lube?

Amazon, Brownells...there's a bunch of different OTC products aimed at the locksmith and gun owner communities. I have a few differents types, but they're cheap so easy to try a few different types to see what works for you. Just use really sparingly.

Oh yeah, and while you do have locking tuners, neat minimal windings on the posts with winding done under tension helps ensure your strings settle quickly.

 

[Remster]

Thanks! Just went out and bought what you suggested. Will experiment later!

Amazon, Brownells...there's a bunch of different OTC products aimed at the locksmith and gun owner communities. I have a few differents types, but they're cheap so easy to try a few different types to see what works for you. Just use really sparingly.

Oh yeah, and while you do have locking tuners, neat minimal windings on the posts with winding done under tension helps ensure your strings settle quickly.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

No but I think I should. Any suggestions on types and brands?

I use the Music Nomad Tune It stuff, works fine for me. Others may have other suggestions that work better or are cheaper though.

I just use a pencil. Works great.

 

[Remster]

Are the strings sitting deep enough in the nut though or should they be a little deeper?

 

[Remster]

Update

I haven't smoother out the slots of the nut just yet as I wanted to just test lubing the slots first and doing that probably fixed 95% of the issues I had with the B and high E string. That being said now when I use the bridge (not for vibrato but to really change the pitch) only the low E becomes sharp so I think I'll really have to look at the slot cut for this one.

On a funny note, just before I meant to smooth the slot with grade 1000, I took a break and exited my office to play with my cat, he really clawed my index finger deep by accident enough to make bleed so I didn't want to dirty up the guitar with my blood or play with a band aid.

Thanks for the help!

 

[crushingpetal]

I just use a pencil. Works great.

Shit, I went down this road years ago. Get the pencil lead with the most graphite in it, not just the standard HB. I forget which... maybe I ended up with 4B?

 

[DECEMBER]

It's most likely binding at the nut and/or saddles. The slots need to be lubed and/or widened (ever so slightly).

 

[Rubbishplayer]

Shit, I went down this road years ago. Get the pencil lead with the most graphite in it, not just the standard HB. I forget which... maybe I ended up with 4B?

Sure, a soft (i.e. 2B or better) pencil will work. I just find the little bottle of graphite lube more convenient, easy to use, less messy, more precise and reliable.

 

[crushingpetal]

Sure, a soft (i.e. 2B or better) pencil will work. I just find the little bottle of graphite lube more convenient, easy to use, less messy, more precise and reliable.

For me, a 4B lead in a mechanical pencil was perfect. A bottle of graphite lube sounds messy.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

I have a set of 12 gauged nut slot files from stewmac (I ordered them piecemeal, the sets didn't have the sizes I wanted) as well as two different gauges of "mitchell's abrasive cord," both have been a very solid investment. You can use "anything" to size up a nut slot, but IME with tolerances as narrow as they are, it's worth having the right tools, especially if you are regularly fitting heavier strings onto guitars. It takes some finesse whether you've got the right tools or not, but it's a skill well worth cultivating.

I didn't want to dirty up the guitar with my blood

All of my guitars are anointed with a blood sacrifice sooner or later. It's a badge of honor.

 

[Rubbishplayer]

For me, a 4B lead in a mechanical pencil was perfect. A bottle of graphite lube sounds messy.

Sex sounds messy...until you try it

 

[wheresthefbomb]

Sex sounds messy...until you try it

idk it's still pretty messy