Ideas for soloing

[TaP]

Where do you guys get your ideas for a solo?
Like damn where do you even start?

I've written one half of a half decent solo out of all of my writtens, I feel like. When I'm riffin', I feel like I can up with some sickkk shit. But when I wanna solo? I'm like man this is weak as hell no matter what.

Now when I riff around, I definitely see my prog influences. I don't seek technicality in my writing, it doesn't even happen that way because I'm just not that good lol. But I do see my brain like: "oh hey Tap , I know what you're trying to do, you're just not good enough I'll give you this to work with instead " . And I'm okay w/that!
I listen to a lot of prog, and jazz. Even some Hendrix every now and then, his solos are powerful. Even if they're not all over the place and futuristic sounding like Aaron Marshall/Lukas Guyader type stuff.

When I'm like okay, I want to write a solo over this _____. I don't even know how to starrrrrt ittttt! Like nothing even comes TO my head. Noodling helps me get a little taste, but because I'm still slowly learning theory, and my ear isn't pro... I don't know where to go with it! Idk if people can do heart wrenching solos after 2 years of playing, but I want to try lol.

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TL;DR,
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ANYWAYS.

How do YOU go about soloing? And WHAT should I do to help my soloing? (I do practice to backing tracks btw, yet I feel like I can create melodic riffs out of my improv, rather than solos )

 

[MrPepperoniNipples]

I always start with a couple improv runs over the track, and that usually gives me an idea of where I want to go with the solo or how I want to build it. Even before that, though, I listen to the track without playing over it and imagine a guitar solo over top of it.

For this approach in particular I think it's important that you know various scales and shapes and be comfortable all over the fretboard, and not just in one area.

I think it's also important to listen and pay attention to how other guitarists build their leads. Not just what they're playing, but how their leads progress, I think it's very important to know where you're going with a solo and for it to have direction. While you're at it, you should probably take the time to learn a couple of them, too.

An exercise I'd recommend doing, along with your backing tracks etc, is just putting a metronome on and doing some improv leads over that, or just tap your foot or something and try to make music out of just that beat and your guitar.

 

[meteor685]

a bag of licks i gathered from songs and instructionals from todd duane, guthrie govan, Mats Haugen, Jakub zytecki, Derryl Gabel, Stephen Ross, Paul wardingham, Per Nillson, Rick Graham, Marco Sfogli, Alex Argento(not a guitarist, but his stuff is useful for guitar, VERY HARD THOUGH) and derek taylor help me for the fast stuff, even though they are verrry hard (im workin on em mostly for lick practice, not yet at speed), they are GREAT for the fast shreddy stuff. Get transcribe or amazing slow downer and figure out solos hve helped too. If u like shred check those guys out, actually if u like aaron marshall def check out Jakub zytecki he's insane.

 

[80H]

Gotta actually wrench your heart to get a heartwrencher.


State of mind/being -> mindful overview and practice -> natural release


It's a constantly spinning cogwheel. Once you get done with an idea, you're not going to want to stop making solos. You have to understand that the process is pretty simple, but that doesn't stop it from requiring time and effort. The good news is that if you like it, it isn't work, it's fun.


So first you start with your state of mind/being. Think about something profound that happened in your life, or use your unique perspective of the world to think about something that is profound. It could be happy, sad, confused, deranged, insane, blissful, etc. There's different degrees of this. Think of what it would be like to be homeless for a decade and then find a winning lotto ticket on the ground. Really put yourself in the guy's shoes. If you can gain true empathy, you will never ever run out of musical ideas. There's only so much emotion your life can produce with 24 hours in a day. Genuine acting lessons might help (the art of becoming vs the art of pretending), but empathy is a natural process and can be achieved without them. After you've put yourself in his shoes and captured what you would be feeling if you were him, scrap the visuals of the scenario and grab onto the emotion like your life depends on it. You want to tell his story.


After you have a state of mind/being that gets your blood pumping and your natural human capacity for emotion out in the open, you have to remember that this is still a technical skill. You need a zoomed out sense of what you're going to do, where the difficult parts are, what the logical structure of it is, etc. You don't even need this step after a while if everything that you're playing is intuitive to you, but if you're challenging yourself, recognize that this will always be there. 10 years from now, you will still have to practice something if it involves movements and transitions that you've never practiced before. A great example of this is with pedals: if a new pedal comes out, you're going to have to practice with it no matter what if you want to understand its nuances. Being great with the instrument is more about knowing how to learn than already having learned, but both together are preferred.


Once you've passed that, it all comes out naturally. You're in the state of mind, you understand all of the movements instinctively and the music is playing. The first time is like crossing a finish line, and after that it's like listening to music in 3D

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

Good points in this thread so far. Heed them, child.

I always start with a couple improv runs over the track, and that usually gives me an idea of where I want to go with the solo or how I want to build it. Even before that, though, I listen to the track without playing over it and imagine a guitar solo over top of it.

^ A number of great solos were written this way. Do a bunch of improv takes, listen to them after, find the pieces you like, then string them together accordingly.

I will add to the discussion in my usual manner. Consider what you're working with. If the song has a theme (or, god forbid, a "hook"), it might not be a bad idea to elaborate upon that material. It is not required that you simply restate a melody, but break it down into its elements and embellish upon the basic structure. Fragment it, transpose it, do it upside down, whatever. If you have another song that has a theme/melody, try to do the same and change it to make it fit with the chords and character of the song you are currently working on. In this way, your solo transcends being just a solo and works toward developing a thematic "rhythm" throughout your output. My former band ended our set with a song that had an extended improvisation section, and we applied this principle: we worked themes from every song in our set (originals and covers) into our improvisation as a statement of closure, and I think it worked out nicely. In some cases, we had to really twist around the material to fit the chord progression, meter, and tempo, but you could still recognize it pretty readily.

It's cool if you don't have that, though. As I said, work with what you've got. If what you've got is a chord progression, then identify the chord tones. Let's say the progression is Am F Dm E. When writing melodies, we use chord tones as a target, so start by figuring out which notes you have to work with.

I put a parenthesized Dm7 and E7(♭9) there because those are strongly implied by the tonality. Thus, if you see "E" in the key of A minor, you can assume that it is E7(♭9) by extension

When you're inside of a chord, you want to move from chord tone to chord tone somehow. If you're going from A to C in Am, for instance, you can stick a B as a passing tone between those two chord tones. Or you can go A D C, leaping away from the A and approaching the C from above. Your lines should lead toward chord tones and should NOT lead toward non-chord tones. I've written a demonstration of such a melody. Let's say you have 12 bars.

You can see that my materials are either scalar in nature (stepwise motion) or arpeggiated, but everything is basically filling out a chord. In the first measure, I'm using the tones of the chord as an "outline" for the scale. It goes up from A to C, then down from C to E. Now check out what happens on the next downbeat: that E is going stepwise up to F, which is the root of the next chord. Try to find the shortest path from one chord tone to another when you change chords. In measure 2, I start with an arpeggio (all chord tones), then rocket up to a G. G is not in the chord, but it resolves to a chord tone by step immediately after. Check out the end of the measure again: C, then D on the downbeat. Once again, stepwise motion between chord tones when the chord changes. At the end of measure 3, we have a different situation. The last eighth note is G, not in the chord, but the F on the downbeat of measure 4 is a chord tone. That's okay, so long as there is stepwise resolution. Really, this is the line: (Dm: )A G (F: ) F. The voice leading is A to F, with a passing tone stuck between them.

In measure 4, I've decided that the lower register has been exhausted, so I begin another phrase in a higher octave. In measure 5, I maintain that register for a bit. I arpeggiate down, then employ another scale to get up to a chord tone. Notice I'm using the melodic form of the scale in this measure. There is no reason for that other than personal choice. I was using mostly natural minor (except for the measures with E7, obviously) up until measure 5. If the chord at 5 was given as Am7 or Am∆, then I would be locked into one choice or another, but since I only have a triad indicated, it is my choice how to interpret the non-chord tones. I have a repeated note on the downbeat of measure 6, which is fine, but that might be a bit boring by itself, so I'm putting a bend or a slide before it to ornament the repeat. I'm using arpeggios now to work my way down gradually into the old register. In measure 7 I'm doing another arpeggio, but I'm employing a technique called "iteration", which is a fancy way of saying "repeated notes". This changes the melodic sense of the line, and also is being used to introduce the rhythmic subdivision of the 16th note (because those 8th notes are getting boring). Notice too that the repeated note is prophesied at the pickup to measure 6, where it is more subtle. Try to work ideas into your melodies, then expand them as the melody continues. Measure 8 is all chord tones, but you can see it all as an elaboration of E: I have E at the center of this "D E F" dance.

Once again, the old register is getting boring, so I jump up an octave in measure 9. I would call this the climax point (although that pitch occurred in measure 4, but it's far away enough that it isn't spoiled). It's a long note, so I don't want it to be a stupid note. Thus, it is decorated with a little slide or bend. The following scale is the harmonic form, with that augmented second between G# and F. I think the melody has entered a new character at this point, and that harmonic choice reflects that. In the following measure I choose to establish a sequence. That long note at the beginning of 9 is enough to form its own gesture, so I'm repeating that at a lower pitch level. At measure 11, I continue the sequence, then break the sequence by changing the end of it. Between measures 9 through 11, you're going to hear those long notes: E, C, A. The other stuff in between is just filler. Notice that those notes form the tonic triad. It does not necessarily have to be so, but it's a nice touch. In measure 11, I'm introducing C as a chord tone to Dm, effectively turning it into Dm7. It sounds cool, I'm gonna roll with it. Finally, I want to leave the listener with a bang, so measure 12 sees the introduction of the sextuplet rhythm, because fast music is fun. I end the phrase with a repeated note (established in measures 5-7) and another repeated note which I use as an anticipation for the downbeat of 13.

On that last note: it's a good idea to phrase through the barline. Just because somebody says "you have 12 measures to solo" doesn't mean you only get those 12 measures. Steal the downbeat of measure 13, and the melody and phrasing will be smoother. In fact, if you look at this entire thing, you'll see that I'm phrasing through the barline all over the place.

Now check it. I'm going to put a staccato articulation on every chord tone.

Lots and lots of chord tones. The downbeat of every bar is a chord tone. That is your target. If you can think of one chord tone to shoot for in every bar, you can screw around all you'd like and still be okay if the downbeat is always in the chord. Surely, it can get quite a bit more complicated than that, but start small; have a chord tone that you're shooting for on the downbeat of every bar.

 

[SpaceDock]

I always start with a couple improv runs over the track, and that usually gives me an idea of where I want to go with the solo or how I want to build it. Even before that, though, I listen to the track without playing over it and imagine a guitar solo over top of it.

^ I think this is really good.

Even when I was a beginner at guitar, all of my music friends thought I was a great lead player. It was really that I would listen to the song and work out a melody that fit the music.

I wasn't using any scales that I knew or licks that I learned, it was just like whistling a tune but with my fingers. Try to think if Hendrix just played as fast and technical as he could, it would suck. Try to fit the song and play around until the inspiration finds you.

Don't forget you are playing guitar.

 

[TaP]

Freaking love SS forums... Thank you all for such great and detailed advice, honestly. It's much appreciated. I'm glad musicians such as yourselves can help me and share your knowledge, truly a blessing!

I love all your posts!

 

[ghost_of_karelia]

My songwriting process always starts with the chord progression. Maybe that's odd (referring to the countless articles and books that tell you to write a melody first) but it's the way I've always enjoyed writing. I love messing about with non-diatonic chords like bVIIs especially (as I'm into a lot of folk metal). Once I have those down, I'll write the rhythm track FIRST, as it basically gives me a fantastic breadboard to start layering with melodies and interesting bits and bobs.

I love harmony. I'm not a HUGE theory nut (inb4 someone corrects me on my use of jargon here, sry) but I really hate listening to melodies on their own. It's my solid belief that the chords/rhythmic motion beneath the melody make it what it is, and countless times I've experimented with writing a progression, then writing the melody/solo, then changing the progression underneath. It completely changes the feel.

My advice to you is - if you're writing a song from scratch - think what feel you're after with the solo section, then work that into the chord progression, and you might find it makes writing the solo easier. If you're soloing over someone else's backing track, then feel the rhythmic motion and enjoy the harmony, and try to contribute to it. Chord tones (as mentioned above) are a great place to start.

 

[80H]

My songwriting process always starts with the chord progression. Maybe that's odd (referring to the countless articles and books that tell you to write a melody first) but it's the way I've always enjoyed writing. I love messing about with non-diatonic chords like bVIIs especially (as I'm into a lot of folk metal). Once I have those down, I'll write the rhythm track FIRST, as it basically gives me a fantastic breadboard to start layering with melodies and interesting bits and bobs.

I love harmony. I'm not a HUGE theory nut (inb4 someone corrects me on my use of jargon here, sry) but I really hate listening to melodies on their own. It's my solid belief that the chords/rhythmic motion beneath the melody make it what it is, and countless times I've experimented with writing a progression, then writing the melody/solo, then changing the progression underneath. It completely changes the feel.

My advice to you is - if you're writing a song from scratch - think what feel you're after with the solo section, then work that into the chord progression, and you might find it makes writing the solo easier. If you're soloing over someone else's backing track, then feel the rhythmic motion and enjoy the harmony, and try to contribute to it. Chord tones (as mentioned above) are a great place to start.

Everything you just said is great for the approach that you're describing. Remember though that it's a good idea to steer away from rigid absolutes outside of growth through creative limitation. Working exclusively from rhythm is a stipulation/limitation/approach, and it can only inspire so much in you. Do you really mean to tell me that you don't want to be able to build rhythm to compliment a melody? The only way to develop that skill is to practice it, you know how it goes


As for melodies by themselves...contrast my friend. Contrast A melody by itself is a great way to roll out the red carpet for a rhythmic breakdown, transition slowly into a solo, outro a song that's been heavily rhythmic, etc. A good rule of the thumb I've learned is that if you don't like it's application, keep it in your back pocket for later as a compass for your growth. If you can make yourself like something that you didn't used to like, you've both come full circle and evolved as a musician. It's pretty sweet looking back and knowing that I couldn't keep with the beat over heavy syncopation and now I can listen to cryptic rhythms in sheer bliss on the first few listens instead of trying to piece it all together while losing the beat every time a 16th note gets displaced.

 

[ChuckV]

When you have an idea in your head, its easy for it to vanish once you pick up the guitar and start trying to figure out what noises you have in your brain.

I've found that when I have a solo, or a really intricate sequence in my mind, the first thing I do is focus carefully on what the highest note in the 'mental' sequence and/or solo which I have in my brain; or I try to get a grip on what the highest or most important notes in each portion of the sequence/solo that get accented are. I then transcribe those notes, and those notes alone, and also get a grip on at what moment in relation to the backing rhythm they would be played. Then I 'fill in the gaps' between the high notes with all the other notes which function as passing notes, color notes, etc.

More often than not, I'll find that what I'll have gotten was exactly what was on my mind, or that what was on my mind wasn't perfect, and then work on it. What's neat about this way of doing things, is that if you don't like the sequence once you hear it on a real guitar, as opposed to in your mind, you can often just change the 'in between' notes and preserve the essence of the sequence you had in mind originally.

 

[RyanCarraher]

just posted a free lesson on diminished superimposition! Its a cool idea for soloing. Check it out! download the PDF at RyanCarraher.com

 

[TallestFiddle]

Didn't get time to read everything, so I'm not sure if this was already said, but I'll give my 2 cents.

Practice "Licks" little pieces that you think sound cool, using intervals that are interesting to you. These will become weapons in your arsenal. Then try to just improvise whatever you can over the section you want a solo in (I usually record each improv session so I can remember what I did if it sounds cool ). Your weapons will come out naturally if you're comfortable enough with them. Just play things that sound good, and tweak things here and there as you find things that sound better and piece it together.

Good luck

 

[Adventrooster]

^ I think this is really good.

Even when I was a beginner at guitar, all of my music friends thought I was a great lead player. It was really that I would listen to the song and work out a melody that fit the music.

I wasn't using any scales that I knew or licks that I learned, it was just like whistling a tune but with my fingers. Try to think if Hendrix just played as fast and technical as he could, it would suck. Try to fit the song and play around until the inspiration finds you.

Don't forget you are playing guitar.

Solid information. Of course knowing theory will propel your knowledge and abilities forward, but understanding that majority of the crowd you play for doesn't know or care to know theory is vital as well. Tom Hess has several videos about this subject. I very much like the way he discusses this. (Sorry for reiterating, as I've briefly discussed this in another thread) How well can you play just ONE note? Play a note anywhere and really make it sing. Then expand upon this idea and add another note, then another.

I do have technical abilities, but the most impressed a crowd has been with my playing is when I'm only milking a few simple notes within the melody.

 

[viesczy]

When working over/out lead lines, do you hear the progression and its character/color? Is it bright? Is it dark? Is it foreboding? Is it happy?

Inside of a progression/backing track there is a life/character/color, just take that as it speaks to you and apply the lines you hear with/through/over that to see how they "work" together.

I hear the mood/color of progression as shapes and I then apply the shape/color of the lines I hear that "work" with the progression's color shape. I tend to vamp over the progression, hearing the what "works" together and what doesn't "work" according to my ear and inspiration.

Mr. Big Noodles, AKA the MAN and the artist formerly known as Schecter Whore, gave (always does) a fantab explanation of what/works/how it works.

All else fails... just go Vernon Reid... aka play as sloppily fast as you can w/o paying attention to the nuance of the band or the progression.

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

^ Thanks for the props. And the advice on mood. Listen for what the song's saying, y'all.

Solid information. Of course knowing theory will propel your knowledge and abilities forward, but understanding that majority of the crowd you play for doesn't know or care to know theory is vital as well. Tom Hess has several videos about this subject. I very much like the way he discusses this. (Sorry for reiterating, as I've briefly discussed this in another thread) How well can you play just ONE note? Play a note anywhere and really make it sing. Then expand upon this idea and add another note, then another.

I do have technical abilities, but the most impressed a crowd has been with my playing is when I'm only milking a few simple notes within the melody.

I caution against judging one's art by the audience's standards. After all, it's your music, not theirs. I'll also point out that there are different audiences. In most of the music discussed on this board, I think we can assume that the standard audience member has some degree of initiation. You can get away with chugga-chugga weedly-weedly harmonic minor at a death metal show, because it's what's expected. Some of the audience members, by virtue of being around that stuff all the time, might even know what harmonic minor is. And Weedles.

Go to a country gig and tell the guy at the bar that you're going to be fingering harmonic minors, and he'll probably call the cops.

And why not write for an intellectual and informed audience? Go to a concert of Indian classical music, and the audience is counting the tala along with the performers (unless the concert is not being held among the normal sort of audience). Go to a Bulgarian wedding and see how the partygoers know all the steps to dances in the meters of 7, 9, 11, 13, and worse. If you write it, somebody out there will listen to it. People listen to godawful music all the time that doesn't have mile-long strings of 32nd notes; you might as well write the godawful music that DOES have mile-long strings of 32nd notes.

Truth be told, there is a place for everything. Ideally, you want your art to be, well, artful. Know when you should have frizz-frazz-jazz-snazz-razzmatazz noodling at 343 metres per second, but also know when to break out the footballs (whole notes, for you non-trombonists). Recognize also that not everybody can be a winner: there are artists out there who are plainly not good at the whole art thing. I know a few composers who suck, but bless their little souls, they give it all they've got. Some of them love the music and will still support the community by organizing gigs and events, so I can't bring myself to say that their mediocre music is completely without place on this planet. I also know people whose music sucks and who have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, which doesn't bother me in the least: they simply will never get it, and they probably shouldn't. Then there are people for whom it isn't that complicated. Maybe they want to bang out a couple of songs on a guitar and have fun. Whatever, it doesn't have to be serious. Everybody has their reasons. If you're interested in playing the best C# ever, then you go ahead and find out how to do that. If that doesn't interest you, move right along. I enjoy dunking my head into a vat of music theory sauce every morning (the source of my powers), but I'm not going to say it's for everybody. Likewise, playing soulfully isn't for everybody either.

Also, Adventrooster, could you provide a link or something to the said Tom Hess videos? I'm interested in what he has to say.

 

[Adventrooster]

^ Thanks for the props. And the advice on mood. Listen for what the song's saying, y'all.


I caution against judging one's art by the audience's standards. After all, it's your music, not theirs. I'll also point out that there are different audiences. In most of the music discussed on this board, I think we can assume that the standard audience member has some degree of initiation. You can get away with chugga-chugga weedly-weedly harmonic minor at a death metal show, because it's what's expected. Some of the audience members, by virtue of being around that stuff all the time, might even know what harmonic minor is. And Weedles.

Go to a country gig and tell the guy at the bar that you're going to be fingering harmonic minors, and he'll probably call the cops.

And why not write for an intellectual and informed audience? Go to a concert of Indian classical music, and the audience is counting the tala along with the performers (unless the concert is not being held among the normal sort of audience). Go to a Bulgarian wedding and see how the partygoers know all the steps to dances in the meters of 7, 9, 11, 13, and worse. If you write it, somebody out there will listen to it. People listen to godawful music all the time that doesn't have mile-long strings of 32nd notes; you might as well write the godawful music that DOES have mile-long strings of 32nd notes.

Truth be told, there is a place for everything. Ideally, you want your art to be, well, artful. Know when you should have frizz-frazz-jazz-snazz-razzmatazz noodling at 343 metres per second, but also know when to break out the footballs (whole notes, for you non-trombonists). Recognize also that not everybody can be a winner: there are artists out there who are plainly not good at the whole art thing. I know a few composers who suck, but bless their little souls, they give it all they've got. Some of them love the music and will still support the community by organizing gigs and events, so I can't bring myself to say that their mediocre music is completely without place on this planet. I also know people whose music sucks and who have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, which doesn't bother me in the least: they simply will never get it, and they probably shouldn't. Then there are people for whom it isn't that complicated. Maybe they want to bang out a couple of songs on a guitar and have fun. Whatever, it doesn't have to be serious. Everybody has their reasons. If you're interested in playing the best C# ever, then you go ahead and find out how to do that. If that doesn't interest you, move right along. I enjoy dunking my head into a vat of music theory sauce every morning (the source of my powers), but I'm not going to say it's for everybody. Likewise, playing soulfully isn't for everybody either.

Also, Adventrooster, could you provide a link or something to the said Tom Hess videos? I'm interested in what he has to say.

Great advice Noodle. That actually taught me something. The only crowd I play in front of is a Church crowd on Sundays, and the occassional drunken crowd at parties. I hadn't taken into account the different demographics and circumstances will change. It also doesn't help that although I'm 28 and have played for well over a decade, I'm just not educated on music theory or in the very least comfortable enough to give solid advice based on the foundation of music theory.

I'm actually conducting this from a work computer, so I'm not able to look up the particular video. I will be more than happy to send you a link this evening. Thanks!

 

[viesczy]

Here's a great video, check out what Sir John is talking about after he plays his tune



Derek

 

[meteor685]

just posted a free lesson on diminished superimposition! Its a cool idea for soloing. Check it out! download the PDF at RyanCarraher.com

cool lesson!!!