I'm buying new pickups - need some advice

[Asdrael]

The more time you spend wondering the less time you spend playing and learning more about what exactly you want

User name checks out

 

[Slide187]

I’m gonna chime in on the practicality side of it. This might be a little long, but hear me out.

Full disclosure i'm a dimarzio/Ibanez guy but i have a couple ESPs and a Schecter too... my comments are more about the wiring and prep than the tones.
I used to swap p'ups in all my guitars for a while before I picked “my set” and what I’ve done the past couple years is rewired a more than half of them to be setup for quick connect. It’s saved me a ton of time and work when wanting to swap p'ups for new ones, or even between guitars and even swap positions or orientation for a studio session or something like that. Like sometimes i want that tone but i want to play the part on this guitar type of thing. You know like if i want a specific tone and i have to have a floating trem, or the same reason and i want quick drop tuning ability or want to be full steps down do a locking floating trem would make that an ordeal. i can just throw the p'ups i want in a fixed bridge and go. So now with my main ones that i use in the studio i can bounce the p'ups i have between them and it literally takes loosening the strings, screws, unplugging and plugging in the new one. I actually just converted an EC-1000 from active to passive with the EMG kit and it was crazy easy.

To do this there's basically 2 options (that i'm familiar with that work well)

- 1 is EMG makes plug in wiring kits that are totally solderless and work awesome... i have 2 of them for the passive guitars with 3-way toggles that i have. (they make these kits for actives as well but they don't seem to have a good one for a 5-way blade selector type setup just a note for other guitar types) These kits happen to play perfectly well with dimarzios wiring scheme... for other branded quick connect p'ups you can just change the pinouts of the little connectors and they are super easy to change. i've done it a few times now. then you can just plug in and go... obviously this means you'd need to amass a couple sets of quick connect style p'ups to mess with... and there's usually only a tiny upcharge for the quick connect bases. Unfortunately you're not gonna find quick connect p'ups in a store, or the wiring kits, you'd have to order them so that may be preventative for you based on what you've already mentioned about customs.

1 or 2 Pickups HZ (PASSIVE)

Please note: this kit is for PASSIVE pickups only. All of the solderless components for install in one package! This kit is for non-active (passive) HZ pickups and includes everything needed for installation in a 1 or 2 pickup configuration. This conversion kit does not include a 3...

www.emgpickups.com

So for your specific preference this 2nd option might work better for both guitars you're talkin about

- 2 Mad Hatter makes the "terminator" solderless wiring kits which are an alternative to committing to an actual quick connect pick-up that would let you still try whatever p-up from wherever, as long as you know the wiring scheme for the starts and finishes of the p-ups and which wiring kit you need for which guitar.... and it's still solderless... it's just all terminals and screws, not plugs. i have 2 of these in 2 of my 5-way blade switched Ibz and its great cuz you can still swap around traditional pups with the regular wire leads (the type you can find in the stores and everywhere with no specialty cost). But specifically for your 2 gtrz, Mad Hatter makes kits for 3-way toggle setups. and the Mad Hatter ones have better options than the EMG kit for coil-tapping too. way less work... sometimes even a better connection than some soldering jobs i've seen. the only catch to this one is obviously you'd have to order one or 2 of these kits to do it. These kits are a little more expensive than the EMG kits, but you save money in not having to buy quick-connect base p-ups. with the EMG kits, they are cheaper but you have the upcharge and hassle of ordering every time you want a new/different p-up.

Terminator by Mad Hatter Guitar Products

The Terminator by Mad Hatter Guitar Products is the next generation in Solderless Guitar Electronics. The Patent Pending Terminator offers compete flexibility in finding the right tone combination for your instrument. Each Terminator system comes complete with Mad Hatter Guitar Products...

madhatterguitarproducts.com

Personally i wish i knew about both these kits years before i did. I know that was long-winded... hopefully it's good info for you or someone considering this stuff.

Also to chime in a second the F-spacing thing... unless it's a rail-style p-up... you DEF need to pay attention to F-spacing.
and since as mentioned i'm a dimarzio guy... i find the D-sonic (with the rail away from the bridge) and the D-Activtor-X Neck to be pretty versatile in guitars like this for the type of music you described. i have a few other types, but i have a set of those that fit in every 6-string i have... FWIW.

 

[EliasFriedl]

I'm gonna buy some pickups for 2 of my guitars and I have a couple of questions.
The guitars are a PRS SE Tremonti Custom and Ibanez SZ520. Both are maple top mahogany body. I don't know which wood goes with which pickup so I'm looking for advice there too.
I play metal / alt rock stuff with cleans and ambient stuff. But also I don't want something that only works with high gain sounds. I have another Ibanez with a basswood body and EMG 81-85 and while it sounds super aggressive with high gain, that's the only thing it can do. Any other sound sounds awful, and I don't want that either.

Currently the Tremonti has JB+Jazz pickups and I just think they sound a bit basic, I don't know how to describe it. It's okay, but it doesn't have a lot of character.
The SZ has the factory Duncan Designed pickups which are based off a SD Distortion and 59 I think, but I think they sound weak. Many other online seem to agree about these pickups. I don't know how well they represent the real SD counterparts.

Another thing is, the Tremonti needs F spaced pickups if I want the polepieces to match the strings on the bridge. Is that important? If so, that limits my options.

I'd like to buy 2 different sets, in case I get tired and I can switch them around etc. Have different sound options, all that.

I have the following options. I'm looking at stores near me that I can personally visit. I wouldn't want to have to order from another country and my budget is around 250€ per set. So no Bare Knuckles or other fancy stuff like that.

-SD Distortion
-SD Full Shred
-SD Slash set (this one calls my attention because it's really different from anything I've tried)
-SD Black Winters (people say they're versatile)
-Dimarzio Evolution set (these have F spaced bridge)
-SD Duality (I'd have to change the pots for actives and idk if I can fit the battery in the guitar)
-Fishman Fluence Modern (same, they're actives and idk if I need anything else special for the install)
-David Allen Hellcats
-SD Blackouts (I like these in my 8 string, but that guitar is basswood)

Also some Fender and Gibson pickups are available...
Basically the Tremonti is a really physically fat and dark sounding guitar, have to keep that in mind. The SZ is a bit lighter...

I really like Fishmans but I think if you don’t already have active pickups in the guitar it would take quite a bit of work to fit them

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

I really like Fishmans but I think if you don’t already have active pickups in the guitar it would take quite a bit of work to fit them

You think so? I don't know what Fishman pickups bring in the package but EMG make it very easy for example. They give you the pots, the wires, stereo jack, all with the pickups. The only worrying thing is fitting the battery..
Anyway I wasn't going to buy Fishmans... I'll probably buy either EMG or SD. Probably more vintage oriented pickups since that's what this guitar originally had...
I actually still have the 2014 SE245 pickups laying around in a box. But I fear they might've de-magnetized? The polepieces are rusty too.. I don't know.. I didn't really store them properly, they're just laying around loose in a box, might've been stuck to eachother...

 

[Slide187]

You think so? I don't know what Fishman pickups bring in the package but EMG make it very easy for example. They give you the pots, the wires, stereo jack, all with the pickups. The only worrying thing is fitting the battery..
Anyway I wasn't going to buy Fishmans... I'll probably buy either EMG or SD. Probably more vintage oriented pickups since that's what this guitar originally had...
I actually still have the 2014 SE245 pickups laying around in a box. But I fear they might've de-magnetized? The polepieces are rusty too.. I don't know.. I didn't really store them properly, they're just laying around loose in a box, might've been stuck to eachother...

You can also go TO active FROM passive with the kits I mentioned above just fyi. You’d just have to find a spot for the battery to sit. Which isn’t always that difficult. As long as there’s enuff room in the control cavity you can avoid having to rout another hole.

 

[EliasFriedl]

You think so? I don't know what Fishman pickups bring in the package but EMG make it very easy for example. They give you the pots, the wires, stereo jack, all with the pickups. The only worrying thing is fitting the battery..
Anyway I wasn't going to buy Fishmans... I'll probably buy either EMG or SD. Probably more vintage oriented pickups since that's what this guitar originally had...
I actually still have the 2014 SE245 pickups laying around in a box. But I fear they might've de-magnetized? The polepieces are rusty too.. I don't know.. I didn't really store them properly, they're just laying around loose in a box, might've been stuck to eachother...

I don‘t know for sure but someone told me once that the fishmans have to go deeper into the body if I remember correctly but I could be wrong

 

[Ext789]

What gear are you playing through? You might not be getting the most out of the jb/jazz if your set up isn’t right.

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

What gear are you playing through? You might not be getting the most out of the jb/jazz if your set up isn’t right.

Okay here we go, I think I might be able to explain a bit better what I'm really looking for.

So I'm using the Helix LT and amp sim plugins, I might also buy a tube amp combo for recording at home with a microphone. But I really look at the modeller & plugin stuff as it's own thing, like I'm dialing in a synthesizer.

My songs that I make usually are very melodic, have big chords, octaves and lead layers, layered cleans, solos. And sometimes I write heavy and fast stuff, but to me, it's more important that I can make beautiful layered music. If I can adapt that sound to the heavy music, good, if not, fuck it. Sounding beautiful and versatile is more important to me than just sounding heavy.

Out of all the guitars that I have the SE Tremonti with the JB and Jazz is the "sweetest" sounding guitar. But I want MORE from it. I think the JB is a bit scooped..
I want them big melodic chords to sound powerful.

Now I'm looking at stuff like Lollar, Tom Anderson, David Allen, curious about the Seth Lover set, wondering if it's worth it to spend a bit extra.

But so far I think I'm going to get either an SH-5 or an SH-6 bridge for the Tremonti. Not sure about the neck. Might try anything.

And for the Ibanez I don't know still, probably something in a similar vein but a different model, for variety.

Then the JB and Jazz will be going in a different 3rd guitar.

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

Looking for a pickup with more of a mid-range growl rather than a big high end.

 

[Moongrum]

Okay here we go, I think I might be able to explain a bit better what I'm really looking for.

So I'm using the Helix LT and amp sim plugins, I might also buy a tube amp combo for recording at home with a microphone. But I really look at the modeller & plugin stuff as it's own thing, like I'm dialing in a synthesizer.

My songs that I make usually are very melodic, have big chords, octaves and lead layers, layered cleans, solos. And sometimes I write heavy and fast stuff, but to me, it's more important that I can make beautiful layered music. If I can adapt that sound to the heavy music, good, if not, fuck it. Sounding beautiful and versatile is more important to me than just sounding heavy.

Out of all the guitars that I have the SE Tremonti with the JB and Jazz is the "sweetest" sounding guitar. But I want MORE from it. I think the JB is a bit scooped..
I want them big melodic chords to sound powerful.

Now I'm looking at stuff like Lollar, Tom Anderson, David Allen, curious about the Seth Lover set, wondering if it's worth it to spend a bit extra.

But so far I think I'm going to get either an SH-5 or an SH-6 bridge for the Tremonti. Not sure about the neck. Might try anything.

And for the Ibanez I don't know still, probably something in a similar vein but a different model, for variety.

Then the JB and Jazz will be going in a different 3rd guitar.

To you, what are PAFs supposed to sound like? I know there isn't necessarily a concrete PAF sound, but I think you may be headed the wrong direction.

"I think the JB is a bit scooped"
Most PAF clones are scooped, too. The Seth Lover set shows its EQ on the SD website as being scooped.

"I want them big melodic chords to sound powerful."
My experience with PAF clones is not powerful lol. They're more like a beefed-up single coil than they are a modern humbucker. A common sound archetype of them is a "tele on steroids" which I think is accurate. They're really versatile imo, but based on what you're saying, I'm not sure that's what you want.

edit: this comment is in relation to you looking into seth lovers.

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

To you, what are PAFs supposed to sound like? I know there isn't necessarily a concrete PAF sound, but I think you may be headed the wrong direction.

"I think the JB is a bit scooped"
Most PAF clones are scooped, too. The Seth Lover set shows its EQ on the SD website as being scooped.

"I want them big melodic chords to sound powerful."
My experience with PAF clones is not powerful lol. They're more like a beefed-up single coil than they are a modern humbucker. A common sound archetype of them is a "tele on steroids" which I think is accurate. They're really versatile imo, but based on what you're saying, I'm not sure that's what you want.

edit: this comment is in relation to you looking into seth lovers.

I've found mid focused pickups on the SD site like the Black Winters, Alternative 8, Invaders.. But they describe them as oriented for extreme metal type of sound..
The Distortion according to the EQ should be more mid focused than the JB.
The Custom which a lot of people recommend for a guitar like mine shows more of a scooped EQ.

So maybe the Distortion is a good idea?
It's just that like I mention in the OP I have a Duncan Designed pickup in the Ibanez which supposedly is based on the Distortion. And I think it sounds kind of weak.. So I wonder how much better the real SD counterpart would be.

 

[saabmugen]

Looking for a pickup with more of a mid-range growl rather than a big high end.

Based on my experience of making custom Pickups, I believe pickups with the below specs should get you close to what you're looking for.

Bridge Pickup Specs

String Spacing - 53mm
Magnet Type - Alnico 4 or 5 (Fully Magnetized to maximum Potential)
Winding wire Guage - 42awg
Inductance - 5.5H to 6.5H
DC Resistance - 9.5K - 11K
Baseplate - Nickel Silver (Not Brass)
Baseplate Screws - Brass (Not Steel)
Optional Cover - Raw Nickel

Neck Pickup Specs

String Spacing - 50mm
Magnet Type - Alnico 4 (Fully Magnetized to maximum Potential)
Winding Wire Guage - 42awg
Inductance - 4.2H to 5.5H
DC Resistance - 7.4K - 8K
Baseplate - Nickel Silver (Not Brass)
Baseplate Screws - Brass (Not Steel)
Optional Cover - Raw Nickel

Look for Pickups with the above specs and they should fit your sonic requirements in my opinion.

 

[Emperoff]

I've found mid focused pickups on the SD site like the Black Winters, Alternative 8, Invaders.. But they describe them as oriented for extreme metal type of sound..
The Distortion according to the EQ should be more mid focused than the JB.
The Custom which a lot of people recommend for a guitar like mine shows more of a scooped EQ.

The Custom 5 is scooped, the Custom isn't.

Seymour Duncan's pickup descriptions, categories and EQ charts are trash

 

[gb66]

I've put a set of DiMarzio Breeds into my SZ520 and this is so awesome that a guy from a band which my band was touring with bought similar guitar and the same set of pickups. It works fantastic with high gain chugging and crunchy rock tones. Both pickups are great for soloing but the secret weapon of this set is the middle position of 520s switch. It makes playing clean parts like made of glass. You just need to play with pickups height a few minutes to get this tone. My amp is based on plexi on clean channel and the dirty one is hot rodded 800.
I highly recommend finding these and see if it works for you.

 

[DECEMBER]

I have EMG 81X/60X in a PRS and they sound great with cleans and high gain and everything in between. I also have the ABCX active balance control instead of a switch, the VMC variable mid control, and the EXG expander in it, with an active tone and master volume. These really expand the tonal possibilities, and it's really nice having that much tone-shaping capability right in the guitar.
57/66 is another versatile set, but they're much more susceptible to noise, so if you get a lot of EM/RF interference (like I do), then this set might not be usable with high gain.

 

[Marked Man]

DiMarzio D Activator set for the PRS (some of the brighter DMs)

Super Distortion/PAF Pro

OR

Evo2/Air Norton for the Ibanez.

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

Okay for SZ520 I think I'm gonna get D-Activator Bridge and Liquifire Neck.
I'm not really feeling SD's prices.

@gb66 I know you said about the Breeds, but it looks like they aren't making them anymore. You have to order them from Dimarzio Custom Shop. I'm in Spain so I won't order from the US. But Thomann still has a Breed Neck in stock. You think it might be worth it to get the Breed neck instead of the Liquifire?

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Okay for SZ520 I think I'm gonna get D-Activator Bridge and Liquifire Neck.
I'm not really feeling SD's prices.

@gb66 I know you said about the Breeds, but it looks like they aren't making them anymore. You have to order them from Dimarzio Custom Shop. I'm in Spain so I won't order from the US. But Thomann still has a Breed Neck in stock. You think it might be worth it to get the Breed neck instead of the Liquifire?

If you want a set of Breeds, ask Thomann (or another dealer) to order some for you. You just need to contact their customer services, in the same way you would if you wanted DiMarzios with different colour bobbins / pole pieces to what's listed on their website.

 

[gb66]

@gb66 I know you said about the Breeds, but it looks like they aren't making them anymore. You have to order them from Dimarzio Custom Shop. I'm in Spain so I won't order from the US. But Thomann still has a Breed Neck in stock. You think it might be worth it to get the Breed neck instead of the Liquifire?

I can't compare these because I haven't played Liquifire at all. I'm not a person who tests tons of gear. I mostly use DiMarzios and I have an early Hathor humbucker in one of my sevens.
The truth is that the set you described (D-Activator + Liquifire) can be even better than mine but I hadn't tested it. As long as you correctly solder coil tapping in the middle position you could get a great tone for cleans. You can also try the way the @Neon_Knight_ suggested. I know it's hard but the choice is yours

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

Okay I think I'm gonna go with:

Dimarzio Titans for the PRS
Breed + D-Activator for the Ibanez

I'm ordering lots of stuff from Thomann, still haven't 100% made up my mind about everything as it's a big spend, hopefully when I make up my mind everything is still in stock