I'm Switching To ENGL (Zim Blasphemy Content!)

[leonardo7]

Really? I think the Fireball has a much tighter, yet massive low-end than any Recto I've played. With the bass on '3' and the deep switch engaged, I'm hearing reports it caused that Earthquake in Chile. Perhaps yours has some crappy tubes or something. What cabinet are you using?

The Triple Rec is definitely badass BTW, but the Fireball 100 has crazy bottom end. More so than any amp I've ever owned. I never turn it above 10 o'clock with my band.

I have a fairly new mesa standard recto 4x12 and my Mesa is the two channel triple rec. My Mesa has so much bottom end, on recordings sometimes it sounds like theres bass in the mix when its just guitar. I found my fav setting thus far on the Fireball to be:

Gain: 3 oclock
Bass: 3-4 oclock
Mids: 10 oclock
Treble: 3 oclock
Presence: 3 oclock
mid boost on
bottom off when volume loud

Dont get me wrong, the tone is something new and I currently am in love with it and I currently like it more than my Mesa but Im just not getting quite the same bottom end bass-like overtones like with my Mesa. Thats all.

 

[zimbloth]

I have a fairly new mesa standard recto 4x12 and my Mesa is the two channel triple rec. My Mesa has so much bottom end, on recordings sometimes it sounds like theres bass in the mix when its just guitar. I found my fav setting thus far on the Fireball to be:

Gain: 3 oclock
Bass: 3-4 oclock
Mids: 10 oclock
Treble: 3 oclock
Presence: 3 oclock
mid boost on
bottom off when volume loud

Dont get me wrong, the tone is something new and I currently am in love with it and I currently like it more than my Mesa but Im just not getting quite the same bottom end bass-like overtones like with my Mesa. Thats all.

Something has definitely got to be wrong with your amp or your cab. Bass on 3-4 o'clock? Jesus... I could never imagine turning the bass to 12 o'clock even. At 11 o'clock it sounds it knocks the universe off its axis. I also find the presence at 10'clock already is insanely clear/present, above 12 it gets to over the top, harsh, and unnecessary. Something has to be wrong here dude, causing you to use such extreme settings to make up for a deficiency somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if your speakers were screwed up or your tubes are shit.

 

[El Caco]

Look at it again Nick he has his Mids rolled back to 10, with those settings it is no wonder he feels the way he does.

My suggestion would be to roll everything back to 12 and then roll the Bass back a bit more like around 9 o'clock and the gain back to around 10 o'clock. The mids and the gain should be adjusted together slightly until you get the lower mids where they should be, big changes to the gain will effect how tight the low end is, more is not better. There is going to be a sweet spot for the gain where it has enough, is tight and has enough saturation, beyond that it will just get overly loose, undefined and sound like a big flubby mess. By working the mids with the bass down at the same time you can find those sweet low mids and get that tight sizzling gain structure. Then you bring the bass back up to round off the bottom and add a bit of weight behind the punch and adjust the Trebel and presence to take the blanket off and add the hair up top according to taste.

And I'd recommend you do all this first with the mid boost off.

Every Engl manual I have seen has a tip similar to this,

TIP´s from the Designer:
To help you get acquainted with the amp's fundamental sounds, I recommend that you set all tone controls to the center or 12 o'clock position.
For high Gain Lead sounds, your best bet is to turn the Treble knob well down to prevent the pickups
and speakers from interacting at hi levels and generating feedback (the recommended setting is
somewhere in the 10 to 2 o'clock range).
Since the Treble and Presence control knobs sweep through different frequency ranges and influence
the signal at different places in the amp's internal signal chain, you can dial in different combinations
of treble and presence settings to come up with many interesting sonic variations.

I suggest you forget the recommended settings at the bottom and start with this because the people who made those recommended settings have no idea what pups or cab you have and you have no idea of their taste. Always start from 12 o'clock like the Engl manuals suggest you should but with any modern high gain amp I'd also always suggest that you start with even less gain and bass because too much preamp saturation sounds like shit. Play with you gain and mids, see how much they alter the character of the amp and you should quickly work out these two effect everything else and can take the amp from shit to sweet.

 

[zimbloth]

Look at it again Nick he has his Mids rolled back to 10, with those settings it is no wonder he feels the way he does.

My suggestion would be to roll everything back to 12 and then roll the Bass back a bit more like around 9 o'clock and the gain back to around 10 o'clock. The mids and the gain should be adjusted together slightly until you get the lower mids where they should be, big changes to the gain will effect how tight the low end is, more is not better. There is going to be a sweet spot for the gain where it has enough, is tight and has enough saturation, beyond that it will just get overly loose, undefined and sound like a big flubby mess. By working the mids with the bass down at the same time you can find those sweet low mids and get that tight sizzling gain structure. Then you bring the bass back up to round off the bottom and add a bit of weight behind the punch and adjust the Trebel and presence to take the blanket off and add the hair up top according to taste.

And I'd recommend you do all this first with the mid boost off.

Every Engl manual I have seen has a tip similar to this,


I suggest you forget the recommended settings at the bottom and start with this because the people who made those recommended settings have no idea what pups or cab you have and you have no idea of their taste. Always start from 12 o'clock like the Engl manuals suggest you should but with any modern high gain amp I'd also always suggest that you start with even less gain and bass because too much preamp saturation sounds like shit. Play with you gain and mids, see how much they alter the character of the amp and you should quickly work out these two effect everything else and can take the amp from shit to sweet.

That's true, everything sounds best in that 10 to 2 o'clock range. Anything below or above that is overkill and usually means something isn't right (dead tubes, shitty pickups, bad cable, speakers wired out of phase, etc).

However, on the FB100 specifically having the mids at 10 o'clock isn't that bad. The amp doesn't sound scooped that way at all, just a bit smoother/darker. That really has nothing to do why having the bass at 3 o'clock is complete insanity on this amp. I still stand behind the fact that something is seriously wrong with his amp or perhaps his cab if he's putting the bass on 3 oclock and roof isn't caving it. Honestly even at 10 o'clock it's HUGE sounding.

 

[Sepultorture]

That's true, everything sounds best in that 10 to 2 o'clock range. Anything below or above that is overkill and usually means something isn't right (dead tubes, shitty pickups, bad cable, speakers wired out of phase, etc).

However, on the FB100 specifically having the mids at 10 o'clock isn't that bad. The amp doesn't sound scooped that way at all, just a bit smoother/darker. That really has nothing to do why having the bass at 3 o'clock is complete insanity on this amp. I still stand behind the fact that something is seriously wrong with his amp or perhaps his cab if he's putting the bass on 3 oclock and roof isn't caving it. Honestly even at 10 o'clock it's HUGE sounding.

good place to stand would be MIDs at 10 o'clock, bass at 12 o'clock and Treble at 1-2 o'clock, gain at 10-12 o'clock and presence about same, volume and master to jam or bedroom level taste

 

[leonardo7]

I didnt really realize it but I think I had my gain up too high. I didnt realize the thing has a nice tight gain even at 11 o clock. Kinda tightened up the low end a bit to what I was getting from my Mesa. I also turned down the dials to around 10-2 o clock and it actually does sound much better now. I had similar settings at practice but I didnt have the gain or presence down nearly so much so maybe thats what it is. The louder your volume gets the less saturation you need with this amp. The low end is just so tight now.

 

[El Caco]

The louder your volume gets the less saturation you need with this amp any modern high gain tube amp.

Fixed.

 

[blackrobedone]

Tone is subjective, but if someone has a different setting on their amp then it must be broken?

 

[JJ Rodriguez]

There's subjective, then there's needing to turn your bass up 3/4 of the way or more to get any low end thump as opposed to most people turning it up like less than half.

 

[zimbloth]

There's subjective, then there's needing to turn your bass up 3/4 of the way or more to get any low end thump as opposed to most people turning it up like less than half.

Correct. It's got nothing to do with subjectivity. It's having experience with this specific amp and knowing how it works. Turning the bass up even 1/3 of the way on the Fireball is extreme - even on low gain settings, nevertheless 3/4. Often when players use extreme settings on amps, they are doing so to compensate for some deficiency in the signal chain. For example someone who might dime the treble on their amp when everyone else uses sensible settings, is likely doing so to counter-act muddy pickups/dull strings/hearing loss/dying tube(s)/etc.

Steve is correct. With about 95% of tube amps I've played, the best sounds are had with the EQ controls around 12 o'clock or in the 10-2 range. There are some exceptions, which is why it's a 'case by case' basis depending on the amp/cabinet, but in general this is how most good amps work.

Tone is subjective, but if someone has a different setting on their amp then it must be broken?

Rob, you're the guy who claims the Pittbull UL has no gain, no balls, and should only be used for pop music. Since that is factually wrong and thus not a valid opinion, clearly either your amp was defective or you're just a troll w/ an agenda. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it was the first thing.

 

[Samer]

Nick,

Thanks for responding to my PM, i looked at the Z4 foot switch and it appears the two buttons are not labeled,

what does each one do?

Is one of the two buttons a "on / off" switch for the FX loops?

 

[zimbloth]

Nick,

Thanks for responding to my PM, i looked at the Z4 foot switch and it appears the two buttons are not labeled,

what does each one do?

Is one of the two buttons a "on / off" switch for the FX loops?

There are two 1/4 jacks on the back of the Fireball 100. The Z-4 plugs into one or the other (so you'd need two Z-4s to access everything I suppose). One is the fx loop off/on + mid boost off/on. The other slot is master a/b + clean/crunch.

I just use the first one, since I don't really use the clean channel.

 

[Samer]

There are two 1/4 jacks on the back of the Fireball 100. The Z-4 plugs into one or the other (so you'd need two Z-4s to access everything I suppose). One is the fx loop off/on + mid boost off/on. The other slot is master a/b + clean/crunch.

I just use the first one, since I don't really use the clean channel.

Thanks for the response man, you are a real asset to the community!

I wonder if there is some kind of custom foot switch that can control all four things?

Hmm i am heavily considering getting one of these, do you do price matching Nick?

 

[JJ Rodriguez]

You could probably make one with enough buttons, or buy a MIDI switching unit like the RJM and a MIDI controller. Guess it depends on how much you'd really want to invest

 

[zimbloth]

Thanks for the response man, you are a real asset to the community!

I wonder if there is some kind of custom foot switch that can control all four things?

Hmm i am heavily considering getting one of these, do you do price matching Nick?

Thanks man.

Price matching? Well the prices are what they are, dealers should all be charging the same. If you see it advertised for less than $1699 it's probably not legit.

I can do my best man, but I generally prefer to just offer a fair price and provide great service and let that be enough. I don't like getting involved with bidding wars that pit dealer vs dealer. Everyone loses that way. The margins are too small to play those kinds of games IMO. Feel free to give me a call or email if you'd like to discuss it though

You could probably make one with enough buttons, or buy a MIDI switching unit like the RJM and a MIDI controller. Guess it depends on how much you'd really want to invest

Oh yeah there's always ways, but officially you'd need two Z-4 units or any kind of generic 1/4 TRS 2-button footswitch. I suppose a 4 button unit with a Y cable could do it too, but I wouldn't mess around with that unless I was sure it wouldn't do any harm.

 

[robotsatemygma]

Hey Nick, congrats on the Engl. I'm really starting to miss mine...

Anywho, not to highjack the thread and what not, but do you plan on selling bass gear at your shop? I'd much prefer to purchase my gear from someone I can actually talk too versus electronic ordering and hired customer service reps who probably don't know the tonal differences between mahogany and alder. I know when I start saving for some new gear I'm probably going through you.

 

[zimbloth]

Hey Nick, congrats on the Engl. I'm really starting to miss mine...

Anywho, not to highjack the thread and what not, but do you plan on selling bass gear at your shop? I'd much prefer to purchase my gear from someone I can actually talk too versus electronic ordering and hired customer service reps who probably don't know the tonal differences between mahogany and alder. I know when I start saving for some new gear I'm probably going through you.

Thanks dude. Yeah I carry some bass stuff now but will be adding more in the future. What kind of stuff would you be interested in?

 

[robotsatemygma]

No problem man.

I'm really looking at the whole picture here, aka a full rig. I don't plan on doing metal (unless they're really, really good) but just pal around the jazz and blues clubs around here. I'll be proposing to my girl here pretty quick (just bought the ring) so I'm not looking for anything yet. Just slowly build a nice rig.

 

[leonardo7]

Zim? Anyone? When I play a low chord on my ENGL Fireball 100 and then silence the note there is a sort of higher pitch squealing noise that takes a split second to stop. Its definitely not feedack. I have a noise suppressor for that and its definitely not feedback. Its not a smooth high pitch sound like feedback, its more of a nails on chalk board type of real dirty type of a squeal. I did notice that if I plug in the speaker cable to the speaker jack on the back of the amp while the amp is on it makes the same sound for a split second as the jack is touched by the cable. It annoys me because when I play a chord and stop, the sound is audible. Its also slightly audible while Im playing.

 

[hide]

Zim? Anyone? When I play a low chord on my ENGL Fireball 100 and then silence the note there is a sort of higher pitch squealing noise that takes a split second to stop. Its definitely not feedack. I have a noise suppressor for that and its definitely not feedback. Its not a smooth high pitch sound like feedback, its more of a nails on chalk board type of real dirty type of a squeal. I did notice that if I plug in the speaker cable to the speaker jack on the back of the amp while the amp is on it makes the same sound for a split second as the jack is touched by the cable. It annoys me because when I play a chord and stop, the sound is audible. Its also slightly audible while Im playing.

I know absolutely near to nothing about electronics, but my head showed the same synthoms some time ago. It was a grounding issue, you might want to check that. Anyways, try not to run the amp without a load/cab as you could damage it, insert the speaker cable before turning the amp on.