Industry Standard vs Digital Home Recording

[BillMurray]

In your opinion, do you think it's even remotely possible to produce an industry standard metal record in a purely digital home setup environment?

And I'm talking a laptop, interface and programmed drums. All the plugins you like for mixing & mastering. But zero analog hardware and everything is DI.

With reference to bands like Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, Meshuggah, just to name a few.

And I know that bands like Meshuggah & Periphery have recorded albums with programmed drums. But still, they have a lot of resources at their disposal. I'm talking a seriously poor mans setup.

Sorry if this question is loaded and/or old.

 

[MetalDestroyer]

In your opinion, do you think it's even remotely possible to produce an industry standard metal record in a purely digital home setup environment?

And I'm talking a laptop, interface and programmed drums. All the plugins you like for mixing & mastering. But zero analog hardware and everything is DI.

With reference to bands like Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, Meshuggah, just to name a few.

And I know that bands like Meshuggah & Periphery have recorded albums with programmed drums. But still, they have a lot of resources at their disposal. I'm talking a seriously poor mans setup.

Sorry if this question is loaded and/or old.

KSE, Lamb of God and Meshuggah? Nu uh. Literally any and every band produced by Joey Sturgis? Yep. That's how the man works.

 

[giantchris]

Someone here probably knows this better then I but I thought the Cloudkicker guy did everything digital in his house?

Not purely digital but I think Justin Broadrick recorded a very large amount of the earlier Jesu albums using a Line 6 POD and only an Avalon U5 preamp on everything. I also read an interview with Robin Stapps from the Ocean who said he records all the bass/guitar DI at home and has it reamped in a studio to save money on recording as he felt no one can tell the difference between that and himself playing in the studio.

With recording everything at home your hardest part is going to be vocals and acoustic drums depending on the mics you own. If you are doing digital drums you can listen to Meshuggah's I and the first Animals as leaders album and those sound pretty damn good using drumkit from hell.

I'd say if you really know your equipment you could get awfully close to the point where only an expert might be able to tell the difference.

 

[Andromalia]

Hardware and VSTs are, to a point, irrelevant. It's the engineer that matters. Mixing and mastering require an awful lot of knowledge that no amount of hardware/software will compensate if you don't have it. And then, you need experience.

Meaning, that the more the sound you want relies on mixing/mastering techniques, the less doable it is without grabbing a professional to do it.

Stuff achievableby an amateur is stuff like the recent Maiden albums, which have a very natural and "live" sound. Sneap-esque overprocessed recordings, forget it.

 

[Syriel]

I'm pretty sure an professional engineer / producer would be able to mix an album the way they want it wether they use an entire professional studio with billions of dollars in equipment or just their laptop and a few hundred dollars for plugins. I actually think the results would be fairly the same on both environments, given the sound they're aiming is clear in their head. Difference would be negligible to the typical amateur, and only the true experts and pros would distinguish it.

 

[Given To Fly]

Sure. You could also do your taxes with a pencil and a piece of paper but it wouldn't be fun or easy.

 

[mnemonic]

And I know that bands like Meshuggah & Periphery have recorded albums with programmed drums.

more than that.

Periphery's first album was entirely DI (axe fx for guitar and bass, programmed drums, someone correct me if I'm wrong) and Meshuggah have been using modeling tech for ages, since Nothing. Their newest album, Koloss, all guitars were done using Cubase's amp modelers (I think the amprack VST).

Its entirely possible to make pro recordings using all modeling and drum samples, and has been for years. Its also very easy to use the latest tech and sound like utter shit. It all depends on how good you are at mixing. Plenty of people have used PodXT's and sounded goddamn awesome, and that stuff is ancient these days.

 

[7stg]

Yes, with experience, skill, and the right equipment. Real pro studios have nice gear/ software, and most importantly they know how to use it.

 

[col]

I think we came up with a pretty good quality. Everything was recorded and mixed by me, mastering was done by Dan Swanö at Unisound though. Doing the mastering yourself is the downfall of home recordists I believe, everything I came up with just sounds small and lacks dynamics compared to what Dan was able to do to it. Drums were recorded in a small rehearsal space using prosumer gear, guitars and bass are the Kemper Profiler, and vocals were tracked through a Great River pre.

Mixing was done in Reaper and mainly free plugins were used. I think the most costly plugin cost me 25 euros, I think all of the paid plugins were from Stillwell.



E: Missed the part of completely digital. But I don't see how that would change anything. There are lots of metal records that have been done with amp sims and impulses/match eq. Like the As you Drown album Rat King is TSE plugins and impulses.

 

[Daybreak]

Technically, yes. There have been many professional albums with nothing but programmed drums and stock plugins. as far as I know. You just gotta know how to do it!

That said, it's a lot more fun to have a lot of gear/plugins. : D

 

[JohnIce]

It's definitely mostly in the hands of the mixing engineer. It's almost entirely about having good ears and knowledge, rather than specific gear. Mastering is a huge part of the "hi-fi" sound as well.

That said I think "industry standard" or "professional" are far too broad descriptions to give a straight answer. There isn't really an industry standard. What really matters is what you want to sound like.

However, for the KSE, Lamb of God type 'murican metal mix I'd go with live drums, at least a stereo overhead. You can trigger the kick and snare all you want but real overheads and real room mics make a big difference.

Those guys have very analogue sounding guitars. I find getting VST guitars to sound "real" depends mostly on the IR and the riff you're playing. Fast, chuggy metalcore style riffs are to me VERY hard to get to sound 100% real using digital amps. Kemper being the exception but that's a bit expensive. Maybe you can, so by all means try

 

[rectifryer]

I am going to go ahead and completely disagree with the notion that the equipment or plugins don't matter and that it is somehow possible for a good engineer to overcome these issues. I am not even sure anyone has even stated that, but thats what I thought I long time ago so I am probably projecting with that statement. An album's sound is only as strong as it's weakest link whether or not that is the engineer.

I think it is entirely possible to release a metal album recorded using only vsts and impulses but I have not garnered the skills necessary to use impulses to that effect. It has been far easier for me to mic the amp I wanted with the cab I want with the mic I want. I guess thats how I get around being a shitty engineer lololol. Personally, I think Joey Sturgis's guitar production sounds sterile.

Reamping is such a great idea but you are still left with trying to capture good vocals. I suppose that may not be much of an issue if your band jsut screams a lot. For a band like that, that would be my immediate strategy.

 

[mnemonic]

Just sayin.

 

[rectifryer]

Just sayin.

That guitar tone is atrocious.

I completely agree with the video poster's point though.

 

[Sam MJ]

Personally I think anyone who can get a pro sounding track with just DIs and vsts could do a considerably better job with real amps and drums.

I suppose you could go half way though. If you had a nice big room you could record just cymbals and a high hat then use snare/kick/tom samples. Also you could have your guitars reamped. I bet all of that would make quite an improvement.

I do think that mastering is something you can't do at home though. It's as much about quality checking as it is enhancing, so putting ozone on your mix hardly does the trick. Most mastering engineers say that you can't mix and master in the same room or on the same speakers. This is because they're both flawed in the same way so it won't show you the mistakes, you also need a treated room and good quality full range monitoring to hear what's going on so it's best to get it done by a pro.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Technically speaking, a guitar is analog hardware.

But yeah. I've heard some amazing albums made in a friend's basement, and I've heard some atrocious albums mixed professionally (Suicidal Tendencies albums come to mind, even though I'm a huge fan).

I say give it a shot, and practice enough to know when it's done. You might come up with the most perfectly produced album in the history of music, but if it takes so long they find it after you die, what good is it?

Do a clip; short at first, and play that thing to death....analyze every single thing about it and learn from it, and from each succeeding clip. Read everything you can on the subject. Realize that people only get pissy about 'digital tones' AFTER they've been informed that what they just listened to and loved was a used $75 POD.

To be serious; I think we live in a great time, musically....the idea that you could produce anything close to an 'industry standard' record in a spare room in your spare time with under 2k in gear was unthinkable 20 years ago. I am continually amazed at the tones I can get from an app on an iPad, and how easy it is to turn those into a song with drums and bass and effects.....there was just no way to do that when I started playing.

Go for it man....do something no one has heard before and no one will give any ....s at all where it was produced. Limiting yourself only does one thing.

 

[TedEH]

It drives me nuts when I hear a song on an otherwise "professional" album and you can tell just by listening that the drums are programmed. Much more respect for a real drummer, but that's just a personal opinion. Even electronic drums with a real drummer sounds better to my ears than almost any "perfect" sounding programmed drums. There's just something missing otherwise, the small timing differences, the dynamics from how hard the drummer hits, etc.

Edit: to be clear, my point is that sometimes "sounding better" is not the point. Make the "source material" sound good first, then the goal of the recording/production is to capture that experience.

 

[Gemmeadia]

I think with all the triggered drums going on in studios anyway, its basically like programming with real cymbals. If you can get an amazing guitar tone with DI, i see no point in going through the trouble of micing an amp for one session and losing your tone if someone moves the mic slightly the next time you want to record. I agree with the perspective on a real drummer playing the songs for the best feel, but when their drums are just going to be replaced and edited, i don't follow the argument that it is 'better' other than the fact that the cymbals (and other drums depending on how good they sound in the recording) sound more natural, blended and roomy. I feel like the biggest flaw of programmed drums in recordings is getting them to sound blended and roomy. Once you can replicate that aspect, there shouldn't be an issue with programmed drums fitting into industry standards. With that said, that does take some serious talent in most cases.

 

[Joeyshoelace]

Thing that I have noticed in the home digital environment that can make it difficult to get that pro sound is the quality of recording in first place. In the studio environment recording is often regarded as the most important part of a project. Home guys tend to think mixing is more important thus they take less time to get some truly outstanding recordings.

In my experience with guys who record them selves and outsource the mixing. More often then not I get issues with overloaded capsules, poor mic placement, and bad editing. Its frustrating to have to add a few days to the mixing process fixing things that could have otherwise been avoided during recording.

I'm of the mind with my own recordings. By the time its done the band should be questioning whether they need to go to mixing or not.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Bulb certainly did it!