Invictus Guitars Revealed to be Idiots

[MF_Kitten]

I think luthiers should try to earn their reputation through repairs and modifications and stuff like that before they jump into full blown business. There's a lot of learning to be done before you can just call yourself a builder, and you have the burden of proof, not the customers.

 

[Konfyouzd]

Or even just building parts like necks and bodies rather than full on customs to international buyers--particularly if you plan on offering endorsement deals...

 

[MF_Kitten]

Or even just building parts like necks and bodies rather than full on customs to international buyers--particularly if you plan on offering endorsement deals...

Yeah, that's a good one too. I've seen several people start up like that.

 

[BlacKat Guitars]

In most cases "sweet deals" don't exist, at least most small companies that are fresh on the market can't really afford doing this (and big ones have no reason to give away custom shop class guitars to lesser known bands). I receive more endorsement requests than actual guitar orders, most of them are "I want guitar for free because I play in a band and we have 200 likes on FB", I'm sure it is the case with other builders as well. If small company is chewing on a lot of endorsements, giving "great deals", it is either brave or crazy (or both). Someone has to pay the bills in the end and depending on margin that luthier has, approx 2 guitars have to be sold at full price to cover cost of similar guitar given away for free (or broken or whatever).

 

[MF_Kitten]

In most cases "sweet deals" don't exist, at least most small companies that are fresh on the market can't really afford doing this (and big ones have no reason to give away custom shop class guitars to lesser known bands). I receive more endorsement requests than actual guitar orders, most of them are "I want guitar for free because I play in a band and we have 200 likes on FB", I'm sure it is the case with other builders as well. If small company is chewing on a lot of endorsements, giving "great deals", it is either brave or crazy (or both). Someone has to pay the bills in the end and depending on margin that luthier has, approx 2 guitars have to be sold at full price to cover cost of similar guitar given away for free (or broken or whatever).

Expecting free stuff is a bit weird really. Some bands or guitarists just think they're much bigger than they are.

 

[Konfyouzd]

Expecting free stuff is a bit naive and perhaps even arrogant really. Some bands or guitarists just think they're much bigger than they are.

Fix'd.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Eh, if people really put much stock in what/when builders shit out then idiots wouldn't fall for this kind of stuff nearly as frequently.

 

[MisterMcCruff]

As it's all gone tits up, I hope they sell off their wood store.
Despite all the broken promises, grotty guitars and dissatisfied customers/endorsees, they had some good looking chunks of tree in there.

Perhaps they/he could make up the deficit that way to refund all the stricken and angry customers and put an end to all this ugliness.

A promise to refund your client once you've sold on something shit to a fool who thought it was less shit that you did isn't much of a promise.

A lump of untouched wood has promise in itself.

*edit* ESPECIALLY on this forum.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

As it's all gone tits up, I hope they sell off their wood store.
Despite all the broken promises, grotty guitars and dissatisfied customers/endorsees, they had some good looking chunks of tree in there.

Perhaps they/he could make up the deficit that way to refund all the stricken and angry customers and put an end to all this ugliness.

A promise to refund your client once you've sold on something shit to a fool who thought it was less shit that you did isn't much of a promise.

A lump of untouched wood has promise in itself.

To quote a pretty well known, highly regarded builder: "Not all wood wants to be an instrument."

All the figure in the world isn't going to make up for dead, unseasoned wood. After looking at the "instruments" here, I don't really feel comfortable assuming that the builder is a master wood classifier.

 

[beerybobb]

even $500 would be too much for that piece of shit, I'd just return it and demand my money back

knowing how long everything took up until that point, i realized it would take nearly a year to see a refund, so thats why i decided to sell it to make my money back. nick still has yet to see a refund for the money he laid down (he never got his guitar)

"My Schecter Hellraiser special was much more comfortable. I sold the guitar as close to 1/3 of Invictus’s full price, selling it for their full price of about $3,000 was not fair at all."

I think that he means that he has sold his Schecter for $1000, not Invictus...

sold the invictus. still have the schecter. p.s. love your work!

 

[MisterMcCruff]

To quote a pretty well known, highly regarded builder: "Not all wood wants to be an instrument."

All the figure in the world isn't going to make up for dead, unseasoned wood. After looking at the "instruments" here, I don't really feel comfortable assuming that the builder is a master wood classifier.

I completely agree. However, there must be some in there that shouldn't go to waste. I'm not talking about fancy, spalty, burly top stuff. I'm talking decent body and neck material.

 

[BlacKat Guitars]

All the figure in the world isn't going to make up for dead, unseasoned wood. After looking at the "instruments" here, I don't really feel comfortable assuming that the builder is a master wood classifier.

Exactly. There's more to wood than nice look, buying from non trusted supplier = trouble.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

Were they hyped a lot in the real world or just here?

That happens with a lot of builder that turn out to be less than impressive. On SSO anyway...

Nearly 9000 likes on facebook in just a few months so thats where all the hype started(and ended!).

There was barely any hype on this forum since we didn't see a single NGD. Just a few build threads from endorsee's.

As for refunds I think the Monolith article has killed any chance of that.

 

[InfinityCollision]

I highly doubt the guy has the resources for refunds and it seems like he wasn't particularly forthcoming to begin with.

 

[Ironbird]

Never underestimate the gear that gave you so much.

Expecting free stuff is a bit naive and perhaps even arrogant really. Some bands or guitarists just think they're much bigger than they are.

FUCKING THIS!

I really don't get this 'I have an album out so now I need a custom guitar from a djent-approved guitar builder.'

Come on!

These dubious luthiers (I'm using the term 'luthier rather loosely here) exist because of such people. This isn't the first time (or the last time, I'm sure of it) this will happen.

 

[canuck brian]

I really don't get this 'I have an album out so now I need a custom guitar from a djent-approved guitar builder.'

You'd be surprised by the amount of guys that are relatively unknown emailing asking for free guitars or endorsement deals.....usually without detailing ANYTHING about who they are, their band, sales, what they're going to do for the company.... I think i'm up to around 50 of those.

This sucks, I mean they just made becoming a Luthier nearly impossible.

I'm a beginner with absolutely no reputation for building guitars, but I would NEVER try to sell anyone a load of trash like what ive seen them put out or treat someone like they have been treating their buyers.

But now thanks to these idiots, who is really going to trust me to deliver any better quality?

They totally did not do this dude. They were shady from the get go. They had lots of flash and zero delivery. If you're just starting up, show ALL of your work. Show your steps and show people that you're not Invictus. After that, high resolution photograph everything. Find people on this board to try out your stuff.

Make a build thread of your work. Guys will check it out. If you're a beginner, then you're definitely not going to be selling guitars in the immediate future. Build up your rep for being someone who builds quality and takes pride in what you do.

I think luthiers should try to earn their reputation through repairs and modifications and stuff like that before they jump into full blown business. There's a lot of learning to be done before you can just call yourself a builder, and you have the burden of proof, not the customers.

If they're charging customers, they still need to prove that their work is quality. I went from swapping pickups only right into building guitars from scratch. New guys need to make the investment into building guitars that they're just not going to sell, but to just improve their skills. I built something like 20 guitars before I actually sold one to someone.

 

[leechmasterargentina]

There's been interesting comments from luthiers and about luthiers. I'm a hardly known musician, so I'm not (Yet ) as douche as to e-mail luthiers or companies for endorsement; and I'm really aware I should be way more known to have a chance for this.

Maybe I feel this way because I always "dreamed" in a way to be endorsed by Ibanez. Until last year I had only one Ibanez guitar for 14 years; a 6-string RG which has delivered so much and made me instantly a fan of the brand. Last year I got the money for a new guitar, so I went for a 7-string Ibanez Premium which hasn't still dissapointed me.

I've also thought afterwards that with the money of my Premium I could have bought a nice luther guitar too, but it's something I've just haven't felt yet.

I don't think it's harder now for new luthiers to come out because you're missing the point in the local business; that is the one that is known by word to mouth and the good experiences of customers. Just the old fashioned way before internet you know.

In the town where I live there are a few respected luthiers, but I always think of a newer one. He started showing his work in musicians meetings, magazine launches, etc. I thought to myself "This guy is bold, not only because he's less conservative than other luthiers in his designs but also I can tell he invested an important amount of money and effort in it'. Overtime people took the plunge and started having guitars made by this guy, basses, amps. He does copy some of the classic designs but he also has a trademark in the design of some curves, a kind of vintage-classic re-issue, which I particularily don't like but it seems to stand out. So far, what I've seen of him is flawless, good finish, good woods, and it seems he's open to challengues.

I don't know if he makes works to send out of town or internationally, but I feel his aim is local people and he's done well. Makes things easier too; direct contact, I think people can watch progress in his shop, things like that.

If I had the chance to be endorsed by a known instrument company, I'd rather go that way. Let's face it, if you wanna live doing music, you gotta take this as business. I think having an endorsement is a two-way thing, you get benefits by using their brand, but I also expect to be looked-up because I use that brand. If I decided to go the luthier way, I'd definitely go for someone which I know personally and know a lot of his work. For what I see in Invictus website...this isn't the case. I'm really surprised by that Vjarta band which cancelled an Ibanez endorsement and went with Invictus...Jesus, that's taking a lot of risks!

On the buyers side, if I had to go the luthiers way, with even more reasons, I'd go the local way. I'm confident enough of this guy's experience as well as him knowing his capabilities; what he can do and what he can't do. I might start taking this cheap bass I have for a fret change to start with and see how it goes.

If you wanna see pictures of some of his work, here's his facebook site: https://www.facebook.com/lanziluthier

 

[Polythoral]

Just some updates on the current situation for those curious.

On the other side.

 

[engage757]

I love how Ever FOrthright says "We had offers from companies like Mayones, Halo, Novax, etc. We decided to go with Invictus Guitars UK". WOW. So in other words, you guys are rather dumb, or you are seriously expecting us to believe that a company like Mayones actually OFFERED you something!

More like you approached them about an endorsement and they decided to give you a slight artist deal.

NO artist that talks about seeking endorsements and recommends instruments from Invictus/Emperion, Novax, Halo or Strictly 7 has much knowledge in high-end guitars in my opinion, and therefore, their opinion is not something I would even come close to taking into consideration. Sorry they had to go through that though.


In all honesty though, most people could see this coming from a mile and a half away in a blizzard.

 

[leechmasterargentina]

Lol, I found this comment from January 21, 2010, by googling Gareth Dickie:

If I'm honest it's one of my regretful purchases, It took 4 weeks to come and I practically had to beg the guy to send it. As a word of caution his names Gareth Dickie and calls his work Rayne Guitars - (ebay whatwoodyoulike). He's the worst person I've ever dealt with and his workmanship is shoddy. His packaging was also ridiculous an it's lucky there isn't worse damage than whats there. I could write 1000 paragraphs of why i literally think he's such a cock but I can't be bothered to stress myself over a relatively small amount of money and something I can't change.

Maybe I can actually use a bit of TLC and talent and work at it until it's something beautiful, or not.

I asked him to drill some bridge holes for a TOM and he asked what spec, we decided the official Gibson size would be best, what did he do? Give me a Gotoh size, whenever I brought that up he ignored it.

It seems he was already f*cking up people before Invictus. He probably changed names in the hope of starting a new reputation.

EDIT: This goes back to 2008...I wonder what would have happened if the bands and musicians that bought Invictus guitars had just googled his named before signing a contract....: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/64555-i-just-got-email-luthier.html