Is 40w amp enough for small shows?

[budda]

Dont even need the 412 - ever heard a fender combo on kickback legs?

 

[Choop]

Which amp are you using? Generally I'd say yes for 40w tube, but if it's ss then I'd be hesitant. Also it varies from amp to amp.

 

[BabUShka]

I could not think of any situation where my 50W JVM and 212 V30 Cab wouldnt be loud enough.

Ive played live with a Silver jubelee 100W and that was a real hell at a medium to small stage. The sound man was not impressed because that thing went from zero volume, to window blasting in no time.

One thing to consider is how the amp cuts through the sound. A typical Marshall JVM or JCM800 is mid heavy and cuts really good in a sound mix. I even used a Boss Katana 50 once. Its not loud enough for a show, but when run through mic and PA it cut really nicely.

For comparison I used to play an ENGL Fireball 60 live. That beat sounds angry and loud as hell. But unfortunately I really struggled to get a good sound in a band and live situation, even with a 4x12 V30 cab.

My point is that amp characteristics is just as important as volume.

 

[Kosthrash]

I have a band that plays metal covers that will start doing shows in few months and I’m having trouble deciding what gear to get to use.

I’d like to have both a direct in FOH and speaker option. FOH will be more convenient but not everywhere we play may have good PA to have that as option so it’d be good to have a live amp option.

I have 40w combo amp and some pedals that sound awesome so cheapest option would be to just use that and get a pedal like ampli firebox to go direct in with pedals.

But is a 40w going to be loud enough?

I thought about getting a modeler and neutral amp as that’d prob be easiest setup but I don’t think I like feel of modelers and hesitant about spending bunch of money on something I’m not gonna like.

I’d be cool to get a big 100w mesa rec. But it’s expensive and having a huge stack seems like overkill esp since I live on 3rd floor apt and we practice in place w amps (where I’ve been using rec) so I would never use except shows and even then might be using direct into pa when available… so doesn’t seem worth paying 3K for something that I’ll hardly use and be a pain to get around.

If I get mesa I figure I could also get load box to use direct, I could just bring head if place as speakers and I wouldn’t need pedals w it since I don’t use fx. But even so I don’t know if it’s worth money and can hold off if 40 w is loud enough.

If you can let me know if 40 combo would be loud enough for small venues that could help in decision and I appreciate any other insights you can provide.Thanks!

Which amp do you currently use?
You may increase your amp's loudness by +xdB spl by just replacing the internal speaker with a more efficient (with bigger sensitivity, for example the v30 celestion has 100dB spl sensitivity, while the Eminence Wizard has 102.8 dB spl, so it's almost like going from 40->80 watts of power amp ...)

Loudness volume doubling sound level change factor of perceived loudness decibel scale log compare intensities formula calculate power level noise levels volume logarithm dependence three four fold loudness sound - by what factor does level decrease

Dependance sound levels change factor perceived loudness decibel scale log compare intensities calculate power level formula noise volume doubling loudness volume - logarithm decibel 3 dBSPL 6 dB 10 dB double voltage sound pressure acoustic power loudness sound audio formula relationship...

www.sengpielaudio.com

 

[broj15]

Which amp do you currently use?
You may increase your amp's loudness by +xdB spl by just replacing the internal speaker with a more efficient (with bigger sensitivity, for example the v30 celestion has 100dB spl sensitivity, while the Eminence Wizard has 102.8 dB spl, so it's almost like going from 40->80 watts of power amp ...)

Really this response and the others in the same vein is the best advice in this thread- especially considering we still don't know what amp the OP is actually using. To my knowledge- and from my own experience- high efficiency speakers will do more for you in terms of volume than how many watts your amp is rated at. For example: a 100w amp played through a speaker with an spl rating of 98db will actually be quieter than a 50w head played through a speaker with an spl rated at 102db. Watts =/ volume but instead clean headroom (how high you can set the volume knob before you hear natural distortion). The SPL or speaker efficiency will actually determine how loud your amp can actually get.

If I was in OP's shoes (depending on what amp you have) I'd do one of three things.
1. Replace the stock speaker in the combo with something high efficiency... Might as well ball out and get an electro-voice EVM12L since I believe they're one of the most efficient, but also expensive replacement speakers on the market. If I'm being more conservative I'd go for an emi swamp thing since they're also very efficient (~102db SPL) and good for heavy down tuned guitar while also being ~$100 cheaper than an EV speaker.
2. If your combo has an extension speaker output then I'd look for a cheap 2x12 with some high efficiency speakers and just run that.
3. (What I'd personally do in this situation since I'm not a smart person and a total sucker for big rigs and high volume ) run the preamp out of the combo to a giant crusty class AB solid state power amp (like a peavey CS series/Sunn SPL or SGA series/even an old Carvin) and then use that to power the cheapest 4x12 with high efficiency speakers I can find on my local FB marketplace/Craigslist.

I'd say all of those options could be had for less than ~$500 if you're smart and scour your local used market for the right deal.

 

[Kosthrash]

You may calculate your required amplifier power depending of the venue size & type (open air/ closed) here:

Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers

www.crownaudio.com

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Folks throwing wattage numbers around in here like they're not almost completely made up.

 

[budda]

Folks throwing wattage numbers around in here like they're not almost completely made up.

You spelled “calculated differently” funny .

 

[BurningRome]

Combo amp, even if tube may leave him, his band and the audience very underwhelmed if there is no sound guy / PA. This is a very real situation I grew up playing in.

2x12 will def cut it, 4x12 satisfies everyone. Combo amp is fine, I just believe it needs mic'd to sound good for the audience.

There's a lot of things that really go a long way here to help understand. What's the amp in question, how loud is the drummer, is there another guitarist, what is that other guitarist using, etc.

Poster needs to help us all know more about the band and gear situation.

My opinion was just based on my experiences being in a no PA situation many times, and being both a player and listener in a no PA environment.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

My only real complaints about combos is that they typically have an open back cab, and open back cabs are kinda lame when palm muting.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

You spelled “calculated differently” funny .

If you know, you know.

 

[budda]

All “112 wont do” folks havent heard a cranked jcm800 112 combo and it shows.

 

[ShredmasterD]

my 20 watt says yes.

 

[EmaDaCuz]

My take on this. Unless you are in a pro band, people won't care how you sound and are there only to have fun. As long as you can hear yourself and be heard in the band, it's all fine.
Also no need to gig with expensive gear, it may get stolen or damaged, and again if the sound guy is bad at what he does, a $2000 Mesa would sound like a $200 Crate.

Now, to address the question. 40W is loud enough for pubs and small clubs. A 40W combo may not be the best choice if you play tight metal stuff, but more than good for heavy rock or classic metal. An extra cabinet would help for sure, better sound projection and you would find it easier to hear yourself.

What would I do? Buy a HX Stomp or similar, a pedal-sized poweramp, (I gigged with an EHX 44 Magnum for years) and a cheap closed back 2x12 that you can keep in your car/van in case the venue has no PA. Going to a gig with just your guitar case and having a plug an play setup is priceless, gives you a sound that is consistent show after show, and it is definitely more versatile.

 

[TedEH]

Any and all recommendations here are useless until OP comes back with whatever 40w amp we're talking about. Leave it to ss.org to answer everything with "go buy a modeller".

 

[CanserDYI]

Any and all recommendations here are useless until OP comes back with whatever 40w amp we're talking about. Leave it to ss.org to answer everything with "go buy a modeller".

Well, can you even have fun with it without an AxeFx?

 

[ctgblue]

The information that is lacking:
How big are the venues?
How big is the band?
What TYPE of covers are you playing (tonewise)? big difference between mid heavy pop tunes and low end 7 string metal

I've played numerous outdoor shows with a 60w Peavey Ultra 410 and never even need 50% volume. So indoors 30 - 40 W is usually more than enough

Remember, if it's covers, and a mid size club, don't kill the audience wit too much volume, they won't want to come back

 

[JimboLodisC]

you can get by with zero watts if you use in-ears and the FOH guy gets a line out via XLR to run it into the venue's PA system

if you're asking if 40W of tube power is enough to hear yourself onstage with everything else going on, then yeah most likely

but 40W of solid state wouldn't work, I know some people have said their 40W Spark has been fine but they're playing in quiet dad bands with clean tones playing backup rhythm parts in a small bar where nobody even hears them anyway so it doesn't matter

 

[Voodoo Marshall]

Always have something you like on stage. Never trust front of the house unless you know the venues you're playing have high quality sound systems AND a high quality sound person.

I use my Bogner mini at some gig through a 2x12 w/ V30's. Plenty loud enough and we're loud as fuck. However, for any venue and particularly bigger venues, 50w Marshall JCM800. More headroom.

 

[Blackshirt]

I have a band that plays metal covers that will start doing shows in few months and I’m having trouble deciding what gear to get to use.

I’d like to have both a direct in FOH and speaker option. FOH will be more convenient but not everywhere we play may have good PA to have that as option so it’d be good to have a live amp option.

I have 40w combo amp and some pedals that sound awesome so cheapest option would be to just use that and get a pedal like ampli firebox to go direct in with pedals.

But is a 40w going to be loud enough?

I thought about getting a modeler and neutral amp as that’d prob be easiest setup but I don’t think I like feel of modelers and hesitant about spending bunch of money on something I’m not gonna like.

I’d be cool to get a big 100w mesa rec. But it’s expensive and having a huge stack seems like overkill esp since I live on 3rd floor apt and we practice in place w amps (where I’ve been using rec) so I would never use except shows and even then might be using direct into pa when available… so doesn’t seem worth paying 3K for something that I’ll hardly use and be a pain to get around.

If I get mesa I figure I could also get load box to use direct, I could just bring head if place as speakers and I wouldn’t need pedals w it since I don’t use fx. But even so I don’t know if it’s worth money and can hold off if 40 w is loud enough.

If you can let me know if 40 combo would be loud enough for small venues that could help in decision and I appreciate any other insights you can provide.Thanks!

I currently use a Mesa mini rectifier 25 watt head through a Mesa 1x12 rectifier cab and have to keep the master volume below 4 out of 10 at pub gigs. So, I think your 40w combo will be loud enough.