Is (new) Rings Of Saturn actually legit?

[Esp Griffyn]

Would Lucas Mann fake a guitar performance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKoJ9ywUDu8

 

[Lifestalker]

So obviously photoshopped...

 

[Joose]

My problem with Rings of Saturn is this...

A ....ing awful band took a ....ing awesome name.

 

[DarkWolfXV]

So obviously photoshopped...

>a video
>photoshopped
tell me more, mr. videography expert

 

[Jonathan20022]

I'm not stating any opinion, instead I'm just asking for yours.
What I'm saying is that I never atually listened to their works (2 songs at random maybe, you know) and knowing they're still around and going now I'd like to BUT remembering the controversies around them (the only thing i remember well), I'm a little restrained.
That's why I'm asking. I'm just not willing to devote my time to a band that eventually fakes its musicianship.

I didn't mean your opinions

I meant more like, that's all you're really going to get here. People who dig the band will tell you that they are, and people who hate them or their recording methods will tell you not to waste your time. I saw you already checked them out and it's the same thing with me, just unlistenable for me. If I want to listen to something heavy and hectic I have other outlets.

 

[Slunk Dragon]

Regardless of how heavily edited and manipulated their records might be, when you act like a complete and total c*ck, it just mars whatever playing level you are as a musician.

 

[isomorphic]

Is (new) Rings Of Saturn actually legit?

No

 

[Joshua]

This thread was never meant to go anywhere

 

[Rizzo]

I didn't mean your opinions

I meant more like, that's all you're really going to get here. People who dig the band will tell you that they are, and people who hate them or their recording methods will tell you not to waste your time. I saw you already checked them out and it's the same thing with me, just unlistenable for me. If I want to listen to something heavy and hectic I have other outlets.

Yep sure, just being clear on my request.
Sorry if I seemed rude or anything.

 

[BIG ND SWEATY]

IMO its legit and they can actually play the parts but they HEAVILY edit it(obviously) to give it that un-natural, mechanical and alien feel to it and if they feel that's what they need to do in order to get the sound they are after then more power to them. Music is art and everyone's interpretation of art is different, you wouldn't tell someone not to paint just because its not your preferred medium would you?

I haven't had a chance to catch them live yet but from what iv seen they can definitely play their material. As far as i know they're not playing songs from Lugal Ki En live yet since they haven't had time to practice them together since every member lives in a different state.

That being said i ....ing love RoS and Lugal Ki En is one of my favorite albums of all time. They combine a few of my favorite things, aliens, super heavy riffs, blisteringly fast technical parts and destruction on a galactic scale. There are some parts on the album that do sound like something straight from guitar pro but honestly it doesn't bother me at all but then again i dont really care for the tr00 musicianship attitude that most people seem to have, if its heavy and sounds cool ill listen to it regardless of how its created. RoS threads here always bother me because they usually end up with a bunch of posts saying "lol who cares its garbage anyway"

 

[Demiurge]

The other day, I was listening to satellite radio "metal station" in the car. A song came on that was tech-deathy note salad stuff, and a few minutes in I looked over and saw that it was this band. When early threads about this band came up, there were posts of their music under the advisement, "listen to how fake this sounds!", which would certainly guide the perception; however, in a situation where the band name and reputation weren't immediately provided, the music honestly sounds like half of the over-produced bands that get their knobs polished on a daily basis. A cynical person might suggest that this controversy at-hand is something that sets them apart and is an advantage.

Whether they are "legit" is really only important if you need to have your recorded performances to be as "authentic" and "raw" as possible, but you're probably picking the wrong genre for that anyway. It's kind of like believing that the Transformers movies would have been better if the robots were practical effects and not CGI.

 

[Ed_Ibanez_Shred]

I find it odd when people try to justify not liking a band by criticising the way in which they make music. I think this album sounds great, and I like the overall sound (that is clearly a product of extensive production.)

I don't mind that they chose to make their music this way, and they are obviously all good composers (see; drums and solos/gnarly riffs) and accomplished musicians that are capable of writing and performing a very technical album.

see also numerous live videos

tbh I wouldn't even mind if they couldn't perform their own music, it's still a good album in my opinion.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Music is art and everyone's interpretation of art is different, you wouldn't tell someone not to paint just because its not your preferred medium would you?

No, but I would call someone a liar who said they "painted" their PhotoShop collage.

 

[Nour Ayasso]

Music is music. If you don't like their music, then you have nothing to worry about. If you like their music, whether they can play it or not, do yourself a favor and just enjoy it. If something like their snobby attitudes bother you then that's up to you, to purposely not enjoy their music. I don't like anything about Slash, Travis Barker, or anything under the name KISS. I don't like their attitudes, I don't like their musicianship, more importably I don't like their music. But a lot of people seem to love those names. Maybe ignorance really is bliss.

 

[Rizzo]

Ok guys I'm done with the info so I thought I'd just get into the debate as I like having some chats.
As I said already I checked them back (not remembering their stuff but just the debate around it) and I personally don't like their music. Also, seems like ROS guitarist is actually able to play his stuff, but his style wouldn't impress me even if I was 14 again. So if you like it, good for you.
That being said, the subjective\taste\interpretative part is stated for me and I personaly don't care further for the time being.

As for the debate, in my opinion there are a few incoherent metaphors here and there.

Regarding the performance debate in general, for you who don't care about the legitimacy of someone's performance or the ability to actually execute something, then I personally can't see what art is about for you.
To me art is creation, and if I'm not personally able to create something myself how can I define myself as an artist?
My concern is about "human capital" and skills.

Random examples of my view (not ROS related) other than the ones I gave in one of my first posts here: think of I don't know, Shawn Lane, and take a random guy who claims to be playing at the same levels of speed but it was just a playback on guitar pro, still he admits to be playing that on his guitar even if that's not true.
Would you throw in the garbage all the practice hours, dedication and skills of Shawn by considering both performances at the same level, just because "you don't care if one's actually able" and "technology has to be accepted as a medium"? I certainy would not, I'd draw a line.
Another example, getting the inspiration from the above post; pretend that we had Photoshop back at Michelangelo's time. If someone stated to have painted the Cappella Sistina instead of him, but it was in fact just Photoshopped, would you give him credit?
That's what I'm saying.

Composing is just an abstract skill so you can't have shorcuts for that. But performance is performance...pretending is just stupid and disrespectful.
Aaaand again I'm not talking of electronica here, it doesn't matter at all. Again,I have no problem towards doing things virtually as long as it's admitted, I get upset when someone pretends to be able to do things the can't by using virtualisation as an excuse.

 

[hairychris]

I read in another thread from some guy who obviously knows some of the modern producing techniques (guess he was a studio guy himself) that there is a way of recording, where every single note is recorded one at a time and then put together in post-production. That way the guitars sound like midi/GP and ROS are actually using that style of production.

I can't confirm that it's true as I just read it, but it sounded legit to me.

Doing this is relatively simple, but very time consuming and would sound unnatural as the notes will not have normal decay (unless you finesse each note individually), plus you wouldn't sensibly be able to get legato sounding right as the transitions between notes and the attack for each particular note will be identical.

We pick up on all the minute differences between natural and synthetic things, including sound. The 99% that is right is not the problem, it's the 1% that's different that in this case makes it sound fake. It's similar to computer generated images of faces, etc. The small details really matter...

In a situation where there are less individual components, like a simple rhythm track, it's easier to make the manipulation sound natural as it is simply less time-consuming to do.

Edit: FWIW I don't really give a crap about the "debate" one way or another. However they recorded it I just don't like the music!

 

[mikah912]

Ok guys I'm done with the info so I thought I'd just get into the debate as I like having some chats.
As I said already I checked them back (not remembering their stuff but just the debate around it) and I personally don't like their music. Also, seems like ROS guitarist is actually able to play his stuff, but his style wouldn't impress me even if I was 14 again. So if you like it, good for you.
That being said, the subjective\taste\interpretative part is stated for me and I personaly don't care further for the time being.

As for the debate, in my opinion there are a few incoherent metaphors here and there.

Regarding the performance debate in general, for you who don't care about the legitimacy of someone's performance or the ability to actually execute something, then I personally can't see what art is about for you.
To me art is creation, and if I'm not personally able to create something myself how can I define myself as an artist?
My concern is about "human capital" and skills.

Random examples of my view (not ROS related) other than the ones I gave in one of my first posts here: think of I don't know, Shawn Lane, and take a random guy who claims to be playing at the same levels of speed but it was just a playback on guitar pro, still he admits to be playing that on his guitar even if that's not true.
Would you throw in the garbage all the practice hours, dedication and skills of Shawn by considering both performances at the same level, just because "you don't care if one's actually able" and "technology has to be accepted as a medium"? I certainy would not, I'd draw a line.
Another example, getting the inspiration from the above post; pretend that we had Photoshop back at Michelangelo's time. If someone stated to have painted the Cappella Sistina instead of him, but it was in fact just Photoshopped, would you give him credit?
That's what I'm saying.

Composing is just an abstract skill so you can't have shorcuts for that. But performance is performance...pretending is just stupid and disrespectful.
Aaaand again I'm not talking of electronica here, it doesn't matter at all. Again,I have no problem towards doing things virtually as long as it's admitted, I get upset when someone pretends to be able to do things the can't by using virtualisation as an excuse.

I don't think anyone's saying that Rings of Saturn "aren't able" to perform their music.

It's just a fact that bands that are intricate in the studio either have to adapt live OR perform with a supplementary ensemble r backing tracks to fill in all of the parts.

Take Queen. Queen in the studio often made ridiculously multi-layered music that pushed Freddie Mercury and Brian May to the edge of their abilities. They had to be a completely different beast live. If I recall, the only time they give into using technology as a crutch was having the "middle opera" section of Bohemian Rhapsody play as a recording while they caught their breaths for the end. Otherwise, they often had to handle songs differently.

Freddie Mercury would let Roger Taylor handle the high notes. Brian May had to condense three and four part harmonies into a single line. Sometimes parts went out the window altogether. Who could argue with the results, tho? They were an amazing live band.

Rings of Saturn will also have to adapt live. They're physically capable of executing those songs, but it won't sound anywhere near as quantized, clean, or otherwordly.

 

[spawnofthesith]

20+ pages of bitching and nerd rage

 

[The Omega Cluster]

I listened to a bunch of Youtube videos to make my mind, but didn't find anything interesting, or at least worth the price of actually buying it. It sounds so uninspired.

 

[Rizzo]

Guys if you want to reply, read first at least
And the "oh this thread again " replies are so deep and constructive, it's really a pleasure to exchange these argumentations with you guys, you must be really interesting persons in real life.

I don't care of staying here typing on this thread, I just would like to have a little bit of a talk you know. I you don't want to, I'll still manage to sleep tonight