Is there something wrong with my engl e530 or am I just stupid?

[negativ_guitarist]

So heres the deal I've had my e530 pre for a while now and I haven't been happy with the tone, its got to the point where I have to do something. I have a really nasty/weak/shrill/lifeless tone and I can't figure out how to fix it.

Rundown of my rig
schecter hellraiser
isp decimator
engl e530
peavey classic 50/50 pa
crate cab (loaded with 2 eminence texas heats, and two eminence swamp thangs)
bbe 362 sonic maximizer.

my rig is hooked up the following way:
guitar->isp->pre->pa->cab
I am going from the left and right line outs from the engl into the channel one, and channel two inputs on the peavey. Then out of the channel one and channel two outputs of the peavey into the right and left inputs of my cab. My 4 speakers are 8 ohm(150watts a piece I believe). I have the impedance selectors on my amp both set a 4 ohms. I use both sides of the power amp.

As far as amp settings go for the engl I usually have bass set at around 5 o'clock gain at 2 o'clock, low mids around noon, high mids, around 9 o'clock, treble at around 1 o'clock, with lead volume at around noon. For my peavey i have both sides set exactly the same, level at noon resonance as far as it goes and presence around 1 o'clock.

The more I turn up the high mids and treble on the engl the more of a shrill I get, and when I turn them down my tone sounds dull and weak. This leads me to believe my tone issues are due to the engl and not the peavey. I also did a full retube of both the engl and peavey all with jj's a couple months ago.

I used to use the 362 maximizer in my rig but took it out because I've heard it can add shrill with the engl, and I've noticed little difference in the tone with it out.

I've also noticed the shrill seems to get worse the longer I play my rig (I where ear plugs so I can't pin this on ear fatigue).


I recently ordered an mxr-10band eq in hopes to eliminate some of those "shrill" frequencies.

So in the end what do you guys recommend? Is there something wrong in the way I hooked up my rig? Or is something else the problem?

 

[wakjob]

Man, you got me stumped. I have a e530, don't use it much anymore.

You made all the right moves so far.

JJ's yep, a bit darker.

Swampthang's good choice for the engl. (Greenbacks would be better IMO)

Ditched the BBE, good choice. Engl's don't need them, or clean boost's.

I'm where you're at, e530 just has a certain 'shrill' sound that's more present when playing alone. Thinking about modding mine. I don't think better cables are going to help you.

I'll admit, Engl gain structure is a bit different. I didn't like my Blackmore until I mated it up to some greenback style (WGS Green Beret's) speakers. Really smoothed out the tone and gave it a ton of BARK.

 

[negativ_guitarist]

Man, you got me stumped. I have a e530, don't use it much anymore.

You made all the right moves so far.

JJ's yep, a bit darker.

Swampthang's good choice for the engl. (Greenbacks would be better IMO)

Ditched the BBE, good choice. Engl's don't need them, or clean boost's.

I'm where you're at, e530 just has a certain 'shrill' sound that's more present when playing alone. Thinking about modding mine. I don't think better cables are going to help you.

I'll admit, Engl gain structure is a bit different. I didn't like my Blackmore until I mated it up to some greenback style (WGS Green Beret's) speakers. Really smoothed out the tone and gave it a ton of BARK.

Thanks for the input, maybe the speakers are the problem. I know the texas heats and swamp things aren't the best speakers, but I haven't heard of anyone having an issue with them either, they both have very good reviews. Maybe the Engl can't pair effectively with these speakers?

 

[WarriorOfMetal]

Is it possible that your speakers are wired incorrectly, like with the pairs out of phase with each other?

 

[wakjob]

The general consensus around here is to find some Celestion V-60's that come in the Engl Standard cabs.

I know its a pain in the butt, but take your rig to some music stores and try as many different cabs as you can. 1x12, 2x12, 4x12 it doesn't matter as long as you know what speakers are in there. I'd say its worth the effort if you're sold on the Engl sound (like me) and are just trying to refine it to your taste.

Good luck!

 

[negativ_guitarist]

Is it possible that your speakers are wired incorrectly, like with the pairs out of phase with each other?

Its possible since i have no idea what the pairs being out of phase with each other means haha. I hooked the speakers up the same way the stock speakers were hooked up, with the swamp things in the upper left and bottom right corner and the texas heats the opposite of that.

 

[negativ_guitarist]

The general consensus around here is to find some Celestion V-60's that come in the Engl Standard cabs.

I know its a pain in the butt, but take your rig to some music stores and try as many different cabs as you can. 1x12, 2x12, 4x12 it doesn't matter as long as you know what speakers are in there. I'd say its worth the effort if you're sold on the Engl sound (like me) and are just trying to refine it to your taste.

Good luck!

The celestion v-60's are probably the best fit but I just used the google and couldn't find any to purchase, other then buying an engl cab which I'd rather not do.

 

[wakjob]

The celestion v-60's are probably the best fit but I just used the google and couldn't find any to purchase, other then buying an engl cab which I'd rather not do.

Yeah, you know, I did the same thing awhile back...I don't think the V-60 is made anymore. Or if it was replaced with a design that is similar. So what's in the Engl Standard cabs now?

It's always described as a 'dark/scooped' speaker.

I didn't find the Swampthang scooped per say, but it definitely has some rolled off highs (dark). One would think that it would compliment the e530 well.

Maybe its those pesky Texas Heats. You could try wiring each type of speaker individually to see what works best out of the two.

 

[negativ_guitarist]

Yeah, you know, I did the same thing awhile back...I don't think the V-60 is made anymore. Or if it was replaced with a design that is similar. So what's in the Engl Standard cabs now?

It's always described as a 'dark/scooped' speaker.

I didn't find the Swampthang scooped per say, but it definitely has some rolled off highs (dark). One would think that it would compliment the e530 well.

Maybe its those pesky Texas Heats. You could try wiring each type of speaker individually to see what works best out of the two.

According musiciansfriend the engl standard cabs still have v-60's. Celestion must make them specifically for engl. I'll probably try to wire up my cab where I can use just the swampthings to see if that sounds better, and then replace the 2 texas heats. Do you know how I would wire my cab to use just 1 or 2 speakers?

 

[wakjob]

Is it a Stereo cab? If so, did you buy 16 ohm speakers?

Is it a Mono cab? If so, did you buy 8 ohm speakers?

 

[negativ_guitarist]

Is it a Stereo cab? If so, did you buy 16 ohm speakers?

Is it a Mono cab? If so, did you buy 8 ohm speakers?

its both, it has a switch, i run in stereo, I have 8 ohm speakers.

 

[wakjob]

This can get complicated, so here......

Wiring a 4 X 12 Speaker cabinet

I would suggest putting both Texas Heats on one side and the Swampthangs on the other, instead of the X pattern, for this test. Then you can audition each side with the stereo switch on the cab.

Can the Peavey PA run mono? If so, at what ohm's? If not, do you have a spare amp with an FX loop? (this would be way easier)

Do you have a camera? Take pics before switching around wires, or draw a diagram yourself as its wired now.

OR piss on it! They are both 150watt speakers. Just wire up one straight to a spare jack (like a guitar input jack), even with the back off of the cab. Just to get a point of reference on each speakers characteristics.

 

[wakjob]

AH, 150 watt speakers! This brings up another question.

How long have you had them? And how loud have you played them?

It takes a long time to break in high wattage speakers, this could be contributing to the 'shrill' harshness.

I have a 400 watt Emi. Delta Pro12A that will prolly never get broken in! LOL!

 

[negativ_guitarist]

AH, 150 watt speakers! This brings up another question.

How long have you had them? And how loud have you played them?

It takes a long time to break in high wattage speakers, this could be contributing to the 'shrill' harshness.

I have a 400 watt Emi. Delta Pro12A that will prolly never get broken in! LOL!

hard to say for sure, i'd say probably under 60 hours of play. Mainly at band practice or shows, so pretty loud haha.

 

[negativ_guitarist]

This can get complicated, so here......

Wiring a 4 X 12 Speaker cabinet

I would suggest putting both Texas Heats on one side and the Swampthangs on the other, instead of the X pattern, for this test. Then you can audition each side with the stereo switch on the cab.

Can the Peavey PA run mono? If so, at what ohm's? If not, do you have a spare amp with an FX loop? (this would be way easier)

Do you have a camera? Take pics before switching around wires, or draw a diagram yourself as its wired now.

OR piss on it! They are both 150watt speakers. Just wire up one straight to a spare jack (like a guitar input jack), even with the back off of the cab. Just to get a point of reference on each speakers characteristics.

Yea the peavey can run mono at 2,4, or 8 ohms.

 

[wakjob]

hard to say for sure, i'd say probably under 60 hours of play.

Well, that should have taken most of that 'new speaker edge' off. But still prolly need more time.

I'd go ahead and just wire each type individually. That way you're sure its 8 ohm's. Running the amp at 4 ohm's might roll off more high end for ya.

I'm sure you'll get it sorted. Like I said, I wasn't at all thrilled with my e530 OR Blackmore until I discovered the Green Beret's.

Someone here also suggested putting tape on the speaker cloth to diffuse the brittle high's.

I also have a MXR 10 band. I used it with the e530 all the time to boost the low's when playing at apartment volumes. It will also tame some of the high's.

 

[negativ_guitarist]

Well, that should have taken most of that 'new speaker edge' off. But still prolly need more time.

I'd go ahead and just wire each type individually. That way you're sure its 8 ohm's. Running the amp at 4 ohm's might roll off more high end for ya.

I'm sure you'll get it sorted. Like I said, I wasn't at all thrilled with my e530 OR Blackmore until I discovered the Green Beret's.

Someone here also suggested putting tape on the speaker cloth to diffuse the brittle high's.

I also have a MXR 10 band. I used it with the e530 all the time to boost the low's when playing at apartment volumes. It will also tame some of the high's.

Yea thanks for the input, i'll open up my cab tomorrow and wire things differently. I am running at 4 ohm stereo right now. The back of my cab says 8 ohm stereo, but the stock speakers were 16 ohms. So now that I have 8 ohm speakers that puts the impedance at 4 ohms instead of 8 right? I wired up the new speakers the same way the stock ones were wired.

 

[wakjob]

Yea the peavey can run mono at 2,4, or 8 ohms.

Oh, well hell. That makes it easy. You just need to find out if each side is wired series or parallel.

If its series, each side is 16 ohm. (weird)

If its parallel, each side is 4 ohm. (again, weird)

Usually, with a Stereo 4x12, there would be (4) 16 ohm speakers. Giving 8 ohm per side, and 16 ohm mono.

 

[wakjob]

Yea thanks for the input, i'll open up my cab tomorrow and wire things differently. I am running at 4 ohm stereo right now. The back of my cab says 8 ohm stereo, but the stock speakers were 16 ohms. So now that I have 8 ohm speakers that puts the impedance at 4 ohms instead of 8 right? I wired up the new speakers the same way the stock ones were wired.

Yep! Yer spot on. And if each side of your cab IS wired parallel, running 4 ohm stereo was the right choice.

Might as well try each speaker individually like I suggested if you're going to open her up tomorrow. I think you can use one side of the jack plate. Just remember, tips positive (+).

 

[negativ_guitarist]

Yep! Yer spot on. And if each side of your cab IS wired parallel, running 4 ohm stereo was the right choice.

Might as well try each speaker individually like I suggested if you're going to open her up tomorrow. I think you can use one side of the jack plate. Just remember, tips positive (+).

Sweet, I don't want to sound like a total noob but if I'm using just one speaker won't that effect the total impedance? For example I'm running my PA at 4 ohm per side now, that's with 4 speakers, does this change if i'm only hooking up 1 speaker to one side of my jack plate?