Jackson CS vs ESP CS

[MAJ Meadows SF]

SHOW ME THE MONEY! So, since cheesecake testing has held on long enough to be somewhat lucrative, I'm ticking off a couple of bucket list items. One of those is some kind of X shape guitar with specific specs, and a wild-ass crackle finish. I've done small luthier stuff plenty, so I have been tossing around the idea of going to one of these two big brand shops. I have never ordered from them (using a dealer I know) and have seen mixed reviews all around. I'm sticking with these two because it's either a Warrior or Random Star shape or bust.

So who has dealt with either recently or has close knowledge of someone who has? I'm curious and don't have a preference. I've adored all the older USA Warriors I've played on; those are still my favorite in this idea. But I was really surprised by the SD-2 I picked up, and it's just an LTD. I know both shops can pull the finish off (it's not a standard crackle), but although my desire was for the Warrior the recent CS gripes and inconsistency have me thinking about ESP, who I also think might do better with the finish. Price will be up there, but who is worth it more by track record and product?

There's another solution: grab a used USA Warrior and have it refinished somewhere. I've seen some pretty good crackle finishes done by several shops around the country, but this idea requires exact colors I've only seen from ESP, Jackson, and BC Rich. The application matters too. I've looked into DIY with brands like Montana Cans, but nobody has the exact colors. Powder coating is closer, frankly. Regardless, used market is an option for the Warrior. The Random Star would be impossible to find that is not an LTD. ESP USA doesn't offer the shape, and the blending over colors for the crackle is a custom shop technique.

Any relevant input is appreciated. It's a hell of a lot of money to put up and while deciding if it's worth it or not, the shop that's better to deal with matters.

(Whoever made "crackle my balls" a tag choice deserves a beer.)

 

[narad]

So,

a.) I'm also trying to get a USA warrior to refinish, but for me personally I would love to copy this Mike Learn one from a couple weeks ago (I asked Mike if he'd do another, no reply so far...)

So I'm with you on that. I wouldn't bother going Jackson CS. This guitar was priced at $7k! I'd even consider refinishing a Jackson Stars warrior. My current CS warrior is honestly nothing to write home about, and I'd take the ESP for it in terms of feel, though a lot of that is subjective.

b.) I actually also want to crackle finish an ESP random star at ESP, and I was there 2 weeks ago getting a quote. It'd be 200,000Y for the crackle refinish here, which was more than I was expecting for a bolt-on. I considered in total cost this was maybe a bit much for this project, so I actually picked it up from Crafthouse like 4 hours ago to chill with it here as I think it over. I'd be up for selling it to you, and you could take it to someone in the US or I could have it crackle refinished at ESP for you? It's basically the pointy one that looks like the goat whore sig one but with like a dimebag headstock.

 

[MAJ Meadows SF]

So,

a.) I'm also trying to get a USA warrior to refinish, but for me personally I would love to copy this Mike Learn one from a couple weeks ago (I asked Mike if he'd do another, no reply so far...)

So I'm with you on that. I wouldn't bother going Jackson CS. This guitar was priced at $7k! I'd even consider refinishing a Jackson Stars warrior. My current CS warrior is honestly nothing to write home about, and I'd take the ESP for it in terms of feel, though a lot of that is subjective.

b.) I actually also want to crackle finish an ESP random star at ESP, and I was there 2 weeks ago getting a quote. It'd be 200,000Y for the crackle refinish here, which was more than I was expecting for a bolt-on. I considered in total cost this was maybe a bit much for this project, so I actually picked it up from Crafthouse like 4 hours ago to chill with it here as I think it over. I'd be up for selling it to you, and you could take it to someone in the US or I could have it crackle refinished at ESP for you? It's basically the pointy one that looks like the goat whore sig one but with like a dimebag headstock.

Damn I have to see that one! Even if it is a bolt on. $1500 USD seems in the ballpark I was expecting for a finish job, actually thinking it would be a little higher since it's a one-off color idea I've yet to be seen done as a crackle.

That Mike Learn Warrior is pretty sick! Even though I just posted about my distaste for pickup rings, they absolutely work here as an aesthetic. Refinishing a used USA is the smarter option if a new custom shop doesn't leap above in quality enough. Plus, I've been reading on QA/QC inconsistencies and disappointments. If I went with Jackson, that's probably the best choice, agreeably. As for ESP I had only played the KH, JH, and Eclipse model ESPs above the LTD line, and although nice, I wouldn't write home about them either. Then I got to jam on a CS Arrow, and it was amazing to me, enough to inspire and keep my attention. When I got the SD-2 the neck to me felt very similar; I'd have to copy Sammy's specs for sure if they are unusual. You just can't find anything below CS level with that shape. FWIW mine does have some minor flaws: frets are a little sharp in spots and the bridge has the FR "creaking hinge" sound. Also not crazy about the pickup ring...

 

[yan12]

A Mike Learn warbird finish is approximately $1600-1800 USD. I live close to him and have seen much of his work. When it is a refinish requiring the removal of the old finish, I think it is a very fair price. I just got that quote for one of mine.

ESP Custom shop is about as good as it gets. I personally think dollar to dollar, they are better than Jackson in every way. This has been my experience with both brands, but rest assured a real custom shop Jackson is a mighty fine guitar.

ESP USA has one of the best painters in Ryan Domingez...aka Spongebob on Instagram. He could do any finish you want and he has done some refinishes as well. But forget having them build the guitar, it's not what they do.

Crackle is a tough call. Depends on what type of crackle you like, big splotches, lightning style, etc. I could only recommend based on what you are looking for.

 

[mogar]

Absolutely zero experience with either and will probably never have the opportunity, but just the fact that ESP Japan can do a Random Star with a hockey stick headstock would have me personally leaning that direction if I could spend that kind of coin.

On the otherhand, if you were willing to buy a guitar and have it refinished, there is this Anchang on Reverb right now.

esp anchang star black | Reverb

awesome condition, would ship with george lynch bridge pickup and invader in the neck as they shipped with.

reverb.com

 

[narad]

Damn I have to see that one! Even if it is a bolt on. $1500 USD seems in the ballpark I was expecting for a finish job, actually thinking it would be a little higher since it's a one-off color idea I've yet to be seen done as a crackle.

This is the one I was talking about, it's custom shop:

Yea, I suppose 200,000Y is not out of the question for crackle, and this one has some damage on points that make it a good candidate for a refinish. I just don't have the mind for visualizing these things. I think the mockup looks good but hard to imagine it in-hand:

 

[ThomasUV777]

I am a tremendous Jackson-fan (have also owned high end ESP's). Nonetheless, having experienced 3 Jackson Custom Shop disasters, and reading great stories about the ESP custom shop, I'd have to recommend the ESP custom shop.

 

[works0fheart]

I love both brands, as many of you very well know, but as much as I prefer Jackson in some ways I know the lemons are out there. I've played a few custom shop ESPs in Japan when I was out there and there were some that I loved and some that I had to do a double take on the price tag and scratch my head a little. I think if quality control is the biggest factor then probably go with an ESP. You'll more than likely get it sooner as well. For coolness factor, I like the Warrior more personally. That Sammy Duet star is sick though.

 

[xzacx]

I probably trust ESP more to deliver what I order and that it’ll be perfect. (That said, I’ve owned probably 20-ish Custom Shop and USA Jacksons with minimal issues—maybe I’ve just been fortunate with those particular examples). But also, I like the feel of Jackson necks better and I like every Jackson shape better than the ESP equivalent. So I’d still go with Jackson based on personal preferences, but I’d do it knowing there was at least a little risk involved if ordering something new. If you’re refinishing something though, that makes it a little easier since in theory you could check out a specific WR in advance to buying/reworking it.

 

[maliciousteve]

In terms of feel and quality I'd say they're pretty equal.

However, I've heard of nothing but hassle from Jackson for years now. Very long waiting lists, incorrectly built, no communication and jacking prices up to eye watering levels.

Esp on the other hand, I've never heard a bad word about their Custom Shop. No idea on their wait times but it must be better than Jackson.

 

[CapinCripes]

Does the Jackson custom shop exist as anything more than marketing at this point? Master builds have been artist only for what feels like half of my adult life. Custom selects allegedly still exist but I feel they are mostly dealer orders for sale.

 

[MetalDaze]

My heart says Jackson but my brain says ESP.

I had a custom warrior built that took 3 years (had to be rebuilt twice) but turned out great in the end. No experience with ESP CS but it has to be less drama than that.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Holy fuck that is a one-sided poll.

 

[MFB]

Holy fuck that is a one-sided poll.

Considering the 23 and 25-fret CS Jacksons we've seen come through these boards recently, I'm not entirely surprised at the one-sidedness

 

[soul_lip_mike]

Holy fuck that is a one-sided poll.

I mean us peasants aren’t even allowed to order a custom Jackson.

 

[Wiltonauer]

I mean us peasants aren’t even allowed to order a custom Jackson.

What, you mean paying $4,500 for a USA Select isn’t enough for you? Dude, if you’ve got $5k to spend with Jackson, the sky’s the limit. You can have a signature-model USA Jackson endorsed by:

- Dave Ellefson
- Misha Mansoor
- Phil Collen
- Gus G.
- Chris Broderick
Not to mention such legends as:
- Corey Beaulieu
- Christian Andreu

That’s… five… no… seven — seven of the most important guitarists who still have Jackson deals, encompassing over 19,000 models of nearly-identical ugly and/or unnecessary guitars, any of which could be yours! Are you seriously telling me your needs are so special that you truly cannot be satisfied with one of these fine instruments?

 

[narad]

What, you mean paying $4,500 for a USA Select isn’t enough for you? Dude, if you’ve got $5k to spend with Jackson, the sky’s the limit. You can have a signature-model USA Jackson endorsed by:

- Dave Ellefson
- Misha Mansoor
- Phil Collen
- Gus G.
- Chris Broderick
Not to mention such legends as:
- Corey Beaulieu
- Christian Andreu

That’s… five… no… seven — seven of the most important guitarists who still have Jackson deals, encompassing over 19,000 models of nearly-identical ugly and/or unnecessary guitars, any of which could be yours! Are you seriously telling me your needs are so special that you truly cannot be satisfied with one of these fine instruments?

I mean, I'm sure they like their sig guitars but none of them are particularly good at speccing out guitars that I like (not while at Jackson, anyway)...

 

[Wiltonauer]

I mean, I'm sure they like their sig guitars but none of them are particularly good at speccing out guitars that I like (not while at Jackson, anyway)...

Oh, c’mon! There’s a $4,600 Marty Friedman model. Looks like a Guitar Hero controller, you’ll love it. Are you looking for more finishes on the Juggernaut? They totally might come out with some! And have you seen the Shadowcaster? Tell me you don’t want one. Jackson’s got ya covered, baby!

 

[narad]

Oh, c’mon! There’s a $4,600 Marty Friedman model. Looks like a Guitar Hero controller, you’ll love it. Are you looking for more finishes on the Juggernaut? They totally might come out with some! And have you seen the Shadowcaster? Tell me you don’t want one. Jackson’s got ya covered, baby!

The Broderick is what kills me. Going from Ibanez RGA perfection to weird melted soloist offset shape. But what's worse, they're still really great guitars, Jackson is nailing the finish work on them, and Jackson already has a carve top soloist shape, so they're really just a tiny design choice away from an absolutely killer guitar.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

ngl I'd love the Shadowcaster if they went all out and gave it the proper Jackson headstock and not the matching Surfcaster one.