Jean Baudin 11 String Conklin "Lava" : 56k No Way

[distressed_romeo]

No business playing 9+ basses? Since when was there a "Rite of Passage" ceremony involved in playing ANY instrument. You don't like what he does. That's fine. However, I think it's rather pompous of you to try and declare who's "worthy" of playing said instrument. Ok, so you are the creator of the first 7-string bass. You've since moved on to 12-stringers. Good for you, but there's no need to slag on other players who play the same type of instrument you do....especially since there are so little of you in the 7+ string bass clique. And last I checked, these people would be the clientele for your itty-bitty bass string company. Slagging potential clientele isn't exactly smart considering there are those who not only look up to you, but plan to buy your pending product.

By this rationale, should I tell every 7-string guitarist to become a master virtuoso on a 6-string first before moving up to a 7? I mean jeez dude, it's just extra strings. That's something you should know quite a bit about.

We're glad to have you here, just let Jean (and everyone else, for that matter) have a bit of fun.

Agreed 100% Rep points due.

At the end of the day, any instrument is just a tool. If Jean's most comfortable on extended range basses then that's what he should use, regardless of whether he 'needs' the extra range. Keyboard players don't force themselves to use all 88 keys in every single piece just so they can say they did it.

 

[Allen Garrow]

Hell yeah Shannon! Ummm, I had something else to say but have forgotten it at this time.

~A

 

[knuckle_head]

Jesus Christ of Nazerath, is that supposed to be an instrument or an abstract art piece?

Yes.....



The owner and the maker are phenoms at what they do - Jerzy Drozd built it and Yves Carbonne plays it.

 

[Garry Goodman]

 

[Drew]

Garry, let me say about three things.

Firts, you're a hell of a musician and an inspiration in every sense of the word.

Second, I'm drunk.

Third, I'd expect more from you. A musician of your caliber, call me naive, I'd expect you to be a class act. But every single time I've heard you mention Jean, one of your peers, on this site (and I know, you'll deny he's your peer) you've slammed the guy. He's one of the few bassists I've seen playing that many strings (who against your opinion needs at LEAST most of them, if not all), and rather than embracing the fact that he's willing to push limits for your instrument, all you can do it post rants about how he doesn't "deserve" to play as many strings as you do. What the hell, man, again, maybe I'm naive, but when you first signed up, I saw completely fired up. these days, whenever you post I brace myself. You're one hell of a bassist, but jesus, dude, would it kill you to not hate the guys who have followed you?

 

[Garry Goodman]

 

[forelander]

But that's the thing from what I can tell - Garry doesn't believe Jean is pushing any limits at all. He's got a 12 string bass with several strings he doesn't touch at all. I've heard the argument "Just because I have a 7 doesn't mean I have to whore the low B" and thats fine..but you at least touch it every once in a while. Seems like Garry is saying Jean doesn't even do that much, so why bother? Which I think is fair enough personally.

Of course I can't speak for Garry, but that's just what I see watching this debate and everyone's points.

 

[Garry Goodman]

 

[distressed_romeo]

Garry, several points...First of all, it's a fact of life that once you put any new musical concept in the public domain it's fair game for anyone else to adapt it for their own use. I don't recall Schoenberg bringing lawsuits to anyone who wrote serialist music after he and his pupils pioneered it, for example. Whilst you arrived at the idea of the ERB due to the direction your music was moving in, which is totally admirable, other people may come from the opposite end, seeing the results you and others get with such instruments and be inspired to use the new tools to push their music in a different direction. If I recall, Jean hasn't had nearly as much experience with these instruments as you have, and so may still need the time to completely find his voice with them.
Second, he is a rock musician as far as I've heard (has anyone heard his band incidentally?), whereas your background seems to be more jazz and classical, hence it's inevitable that you'll approach the instrument differently. Whilst he may not be in the premier leagues in terms of academic training and advanced chops, I doubt anyone here would argue that he isn't far superior to at least 95% of electric bassists in rock bands.
Finally, kudos to you for all you've accomplished, but seriously, a little humility would not go amiss...

 

[Metal Ken]

Yeah, take a look at Emmitt Chapman, totally humble dude, totally respected. He just wants people to play a stick how they see fit, thats all..

 

[distressed_romeo]

Good example, although the fact that he tried to patent tapping was a little dumb!

 

[Shannon]

Finally, kudos to you for all you've accomplished, but seriously, a little humility would not go amiss...

That's basically what I was getting at.

 

[Garry Goodman]

 

[Mastodon]

Well, I definately see where Gary is coming from, and I can definately see why this irks him.

I also see where you other guys are coming from though.

Gary, why not just drop it, why not just not think about Jean again and be content knowing you are the better musician.

 

[Garry Goodman]

 

[Ken]

[action=darren]picks jaw up off floor[/action]

[action=Ken Burtch]hopes he'll be able to someday. [/action]

 

[distressed_romeo]

This is a really good post and I agree with most of what you are saying.As far as humility, I admit I am still practicing. I am stating facts that I believe to be true. I don't ever allow myself to be booked as an amazing master of the bass and teach a master class. I have spoken with Jean in person and had him try to tell me how to tap etc.. I think you humility comment is misdirected.

I suppose you guys who have been playing 10+ years have never seen a guy who has been playing two years with some serious attitude?

If that's true, then the guy is a bit of an idiot. Responding with such lengthy criticism isn't the best use of everybody's time though. As most of the forum regulars know I teach guitar, and so I'm used to inexperienced/immature players (often with expensive instruments that mother and father paid for) coming in with overinflated egos. I've found the best thing to do with people like that is just ignore them and let them embarass themselves. After just a few minutes of hearing them play it's pretty apparent that they can't back up the talk, and most people, musician or not, will see right through that. Sometimes they improve in terms of chops and attitude after a few weeks tuition, often they leave no better than they came in, because they already assumed they knew more than me.
I agree with you that this sort of attitude tends to go hand in hand with wanting an expensive instrument that they probably won't be able to make the most of, but all the same, it's not really fair to say that you must have reached a certain standard to play a decent instrument, as playing a great guitar really does enhance the experience.
If Jean can't cut it in the chops department then no expensive bass is going to stop that from becoming apparent as his career develops.

I agree...let's put an end to this discussion (actually, I think at the end everyone arrived at a few sensible conclusions).

Oh, and the Bosendorfer does rock very much. As an aspirant pianist, I wouldn't mind having a try on one myself!

 

[Drew]

i dropped it a while ago. I already posted that I don't believe in the idea of best, or better. Jean is a fine musician. I am not in any competition with him, or anyone else. I maintain that he has no concept for an 11-string bass with a low C#0 string, let alone three 11-string basses and a 12-string bass.
So i wonder what the point of him having all these basses is. It is great if he just likes owning them. Maybe he likes to try to impress people with basses with a lot of strings. Judging from the way the new bass looks, that would seem to be the case. If he likes to "Tap" on only 5-6 strings,why not buy a Stick or a Warr? Having more strings than someone else doesn't make you better. It just isn't him, there are a few others in the same situation.

That doesn't really sound like the post of someone who's "dropping it," man.

I think I should probably clarify where i'm coming from here. You're a hell of a bassist and a potential asset to the community, yet I'd say about half of your posts over the last month have been subtly taking jabs at Jean for not "needing" to play an 11-string bass. Do I think he's better than you because he has a lot of 11-string basses? Not at all, I'm not an experienced enough bassist by half to really make any kind of an objective comparison. All I can say is you're both bloody good.

And that's sorta what gets me here - you're an incredibly knowledgeable bassist on both a theoretical and technical level. I'd like to think that, given your background with extended range instrument constuction and performance, you could find a better use of your time than taking digs at another extended range bassist whenever his name comes up. You very rarely see big-name guitarists taking shots at each other publically - even Yngwie isn't that bad these days - and by and large this forum is pretty clean when it comes to trash talking other players. True we have to tell David to shut up about Wylde every week or two, and no one likes Nirvana (except me ) but generally we're a pretty open-minded, tolerant bunch. If you read the forums, you're going to see very little of people cutting up other professional musicians, from both the professional and amateurs amongst us. That makes the fact you're continuously directing back-handed insults at Jean that much more glaring - from a bassist of your caliber, with all due respect it just comes off as childish.

I mean, it's what your mom always used to say - if you don't have anything nice to say, then just don't say anything, including backhanded "compliments." For a guy with your knowledge and experience, I'm sure we can all find SOMETHING else to talk about than your feelings towards Jean as a musician.

 

[Cyberi4n]

^ Agreed. Music should never be a competition about who can read better, pick faster, or shred over more complex chord changes.

But everyone seems to bring this up when discussing Korn, about how simple their music is compared to other 7-string users....

....I dont get it - its about feel and what inspires the listener - who cares if it's 1 note or 100 - as long as it inspires a feeling and makes people want to pick-up an instrument after listening!

I don't judge players'
abilities. Music is for everyone. I do think pretending
to be more than you are opens you up for some
comments.

Yes you do - you clearly did so when you said

"I wish him great success. If you think he plays well, that is what matters to you. I don't share your enthusiasm. I am not alone in this opinion. I am just saying the guy has a third 11-string now and I am still waiting for him to do something with the first one."

and

"What exactly has he done to prove he's excellent bass player?"

I post a vid clip of me playing a Bach invention on my
site. A few months later (it took him that long to
memorize it), Jean does the same. I introduce the
11-string bass. I am the first to face all the
negative comments, jokes, ridicule etc. Then Jean has
11-string basses (a year or so later). Nobody else
does except for Al Caldwell.
Then I introduce the 12-string bass, and new strings
that allow a 12-string to exist with little or no
fanning of the frets. And then Jean gets one. Are you
beginning to see a pattern here ?

I see a pattern developing where you seem to insist on staying one step ahead of everyone else, as in Spinal Tap I expect your amp goes up to 11 as well.

Well let me explain. There is no "Rite of Passage"
ceremony, just a level of musicianship maintained by
professional musicians, composers, arrangers and
producers so as a group we have excellence and quality
control.

Doesn't this contradict your statement earlier that you don't judge people's musical abilities?

Most of the people who own Porsches and Ferraris very rarely get the chance to drive the car to full potential, not even sometimes anywhere close! So why bother? Because they can is the answer! Why shouldn't someone get an extended range guitar or bass? If it makes them happy and they don't even use all of it then so what?

 

[Garry Goodman]

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