Kiesel --- Never Again!

[oracles]

Are we really comparing a stacked K series to a setius? No unbiased person would pick the setius

I thoroughly disagree. The K series have shipped with the same flaws, and same terrible customer service as the regular Kiesel builds, where is my incentive to purchase a K series at all? On top of that, when I've seen first hand that a K series/Jeff build doesn't even have a properly routed truss rod, nor graphite reinforcement cavities routed properly, why would I risk it when I know a Setius is a safe bet?

There isn't a Kiesel on earth, Jeff built or not that will hold it's own with a Mayo. Don't pretend like a Kiesel is anything more than what it is, a $1500 semi-custom no matter what you do to it.

 

[feraledge]

Is there any validation to thinking that the build quality improves on the more expensive Kiesels?? Isn't it mostly just picking the woods and finishes??? Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I thought it was all upgrades on existing models using the same production lines. Does Jeff qualify as a "master builder"?

 

[Jeffbro]

I thoroughly disagree. The K series have shipped with the same flaws, and same terrible customer service as the regular Kiesel builds, where is my incentive to purchase a K series at all? On top of that, when I've seen first hand that a K series/Jeff build doesn't even have a properly routed truss rod, nor graphite reinforcement cavities routed properly, why would I risk it when I know a Setius is a safe bet?

There isn't a Kiesel on earth, Jeff built or not that will hold it's own with a Mayo. Don't pretend like a Kiesel is anything more than what it is, a $1500 semi-custom no matter what you do to it.

I've seen many reviews with setius issues, never one about a K series, can't even google any. You say you've never had a K series, so you're just making things up now?

A quality and well spec'ed $1500 semi custom vs a $2k very basic and underwhelming production setius? I'd take the first any day.

Mayos are seriously over hyped on these boards. Nice guitars, but not worth the price. $4k regiuses didn't even have arm contours until very recently, is that a joke?

 

[Jeffbro]

Is there any validation to thinking that the build quality improves on the more expensive Kiesels??

A few reviews have suggested this is the case, although no one can be sure how much difference is in the build process.

 

[feraledge]

A few reviews have suggested this is the case, although no one can be sure how much difference is in the build process.

I trust the owners of those guitars would believe the difference is qualifiable, but I'm asking about the whole process. I've seen nothing that suggests better build quality other than believing that Jeff's personal involvement in the build means greater quality. Not to say it isn't, but he's inherited his position and that doesn't make him Mike Shannon or Grover Jackson.

 

[diagrammatiks]

Is there any validation to thinking that the build quality improves on the more expensive Kiesels?? Isn't it mostly just picking the woods and finishes??? Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I thought it was all upgrades on existing models using the same production lines. Does Jeff qualify as a "master builder"?

http://puu.sh/rZeQ5/c6592cc5b4.jpg

These are the exact same guitar. Take that as you will.

edit big picture is big

 

[xzacx]

I've seen many reviews with setius issues, never one about a K series, can't even google any. You say you've never had a K series, so you're just making things up now?

Come on man, are you shilling that hard, or have you not even read this very thread? Jonathan20022 re-told his issues with a K series.

What about the cracked tops? You haven't heard about those either?

 

[A-Branger]

Is there any validation to thinking that the build quality improves on the more expensive Kiesels?? Isn't it mostly just picking the woods and finishes??? Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I thought it was all upgrades on existing models using the same production lines. Does Jeff qualify as a "master builder"?

you would think that a guitar in which the customer spend $$$$$$$ extra on it should get some kind of "extra care" and more detail to it. Like this guy jsut spent X amount of money on it, lets be extra careful with this build and be sure its 100% perfect. Either by doing a better job at it, or jsut simply give this guitar build to a more experienced guy in the shop like "this is too risky, here! you do it". Now if they do that and take extra care or not I have no idea. They should, but who knows

Also since some of those extra upcharges are some custom finishes and stuff, Ideally this means it needs to be done by the experienced guy in the shop who knows how to nail the color top selected, instead of giving it to the noob assistant in the shop who is jsut finish learning how to do plain solid colors.

Same as the extra man hours required to do certain task either finishes or neck laminations, electronics, ect ect. So no every upcharge means "better quality", its jsut that requires extra time, or an extra process in the line, a one of a kind, side step process in their "standard" production line, which mess with their procedures (like A goes to B then to C finish D and later E to then ship at F...... but ow you are introducing X and Y step between C and E)

"Jeff's price" too. Hes the owner, he can upcharge itself if he wants to. If someone believes that Jeff doing the paint job would make their guitar "better" in any way, and they are whilling to pay, then who cares. My old boss at my old job had an upcharge for him going out filming, only because he could sell that he had X amount of experience and blah blah, even when I could produce the exact same video. But for him it meant to stop doing his work duties to do something else, just because hes the owner of the company doesnt mean hes not bussy working either.

But agree that some of the upcharge are far too high

 

[Ludgate]

I've seen many reviews with setius issues, never one about a K series, can't even google any. You say you've never had a K series, so you're just making things up now?

A quality and well spec'ed $1500 semi custom vs a $2k very basic and underwhelming production setius? I'd take the first any day.

Mayos are seriously over hyped on these boards. Nice guitars, but not worth the price. $4k regiuses didn't even have arm contours until very recently, is that a joke?

Come on man, there's literally a K series with multiple issues (both the guitar itself and customer service) in this very thread.

As for Mayos being overhyped, the "Show your Mayones Duvells" thread was dead at what, page 2? I'ld say most of us are too preoccupied playing them instead of whoring them all over forums and social media to validate how much we paid.

Sorry, I digress. Bad customer service is bad.

 

[laxu]

The whole idea with Kiesel is that even the basic model is built the same way as the more expensive one and the extra costs are largely nicer woods and finishes that not only require said nicer woods but also take more time to apply or slightly more expensive parts. Then you have the upcharges for the "we don't really want to do this but will if you pay enough" things like custom finishes. IMO this is the section they should ditch and concentrate on having a clear set of parameters rather than "ask and you may receive".

That is at least the theory, whether they spend extra time on QC on the higher cost models is something only Kiesel can answer.

 

[SnowfaLL]

Lol?

I don't know if this guy works for them. Just thought it was a timely and hilarious comment.

I think everyone is missing the fact that this guy most likely does not work for them.. Just a random guy.. If you didnt block the name, we could see for sure. But people just read the comment and assume.

 

[Chokey Chicken]

I think it's interesting that people really think there is a huge difference between any well set up guitars. After doing a full setup/fret dress on even a cheap guitar, it feels like a guitar. Mayones definitely has quality materials, quality craftsmanship, and great unchangeable specs (neck joint/profile,) but they don't feel/play more like a guitar than any other brand.

I'll take a mayones over a kiesel any day, but mostly because they're prettier with nicer feeling necks. To pretend they're super magically different otherwise really IS just trying to justify the outright inflated (at least in the states) price.

How polite their customer service is I've no clue. Ive grown to hate Jeff's attitude though, and would really rather not give him my money. Can't say I've read much, if any, bad Mayones customer service stories.

 

[SamSam]

2 daemoness for the price of one KE? wtf I've never seen a daemoness for under 4K in the US. I do agree that it's ridiculous that kiesel is trying to get 3K+ for the K series though. They have one on their site right now that's like 4.5K <_<

That guitar currently for sale is a fair bit cheaper than several of the gaudy beasts for sale in the past. Often priced about halfway between the guitar linked here and that double neck 9k guitar we are all ignoring.

I could have had three of my Daemoness with some change or almost 2 of my .strandberg* for the cost of that double neck

 

[davedeath]

I think everyone is missing the fact that this guy most likely does not work for them.. Just a random guy.. If you didnt block the name, we could see for sure. But people just read the comment and assume.

That's Manny, basically Jeff's right hand man.

 

[feraledge]

I think it's interesting that people really think there is a huge difference between any well set up guitars. After doing a full setup/fret dress on even a cheap guitar, it feels like a guitar. Mayones definitely has quality materials, quality craftsmanship, and great unchangeable specs (neck joint/profile,) but they don't feel/play more like a guitar than any other brand.

Playability is only one piece of the whole guitar though. You can make almost any guitar playable, but if the woods and construction aren't great, then it's not likely to sound great or nearly as great as a guitar with better woods and constructions. Quality matters a lot, beyond the set ups.

 

[oracles]

I've seen many reviews with setius issues, never one about a K series, can't even google any. You say you've never had a K series, so you're just making things up now?

Jonathan chimed in here with exactly that, a negative review and documented his entire experience. I know him personally, we've discussed how the situation was handled start to finish, and it's appalling. To not only f*ck the instrument up more and send it back, and then flat out ban/blacklist him from ever ordering again, does that seem like a business worth dealing with in any capacity?

Even IF Mayones sent me a Setius with flaws, I'd still rather have that because at least then I KNOW Mayones will do what they can to rectify the issue, where as Kiesel would likely tell me to get f*cked.

I don't know what your affiliation with Jeff is, or why you feel the need to continually justify every wrong doing from him or his business, but seriously man, enough.

 

[jc986]

I think everyone is missing the fact that this guy most likely does not work for them.. Just a random guy.. If you didnt block the name, we could see for sure. But people just read the comment and assume.

I'm in that FB group and that was posted by a Kiesel employee.

 

[diagrammatiks]

I think it's interesting that people really think there is a huge difference between any well set up guitars. After doing a full setup/fret dress on even a cheap guitar, it feels like a guitar. Mayones definitely has quality materials, quality craftsmanship, and great unchangeable specs (neck joint/profile,) but they don't feel/play more like a guitar than any other brand.

I'll take a mayones over a kiesel any day, but mostly because they're prettier with nicer feeling necks. To pretend they're super magically different otherwise really IS just trying to justify the outright inflated (at least in the states) price.

How polite their customer service is I've no clue. Ive grown to hate Jeff's attitude though, and would really rather not give him my money. Can't say I've read much, if any, bad Mayones customer service stories.

i guess i find it weird when people say oh it's just a nicer feeling neck...
the neck is the most important part of the guitar. you can get a good setup back you can't change the neck shape or profile very easily.

I can understand people really liking Kiesel if they really love the neck profile that the vaders and dc series uses...

But, I think the neck on a regius is better in every way. That's worth 1000 bucks to me.

 

[Chokey Chicken]

i guess i find it weird when people say oh it's just a nicer feeling neck...
the neck is the most important part of the guitar. you can get a good setup back you can't change the neck shape or profile very easily.

I can understand people really liking Kiesel if they really love the neck profile that the vaders and dc series uses...

But, I think the neck on a regius is better in every way. That's worth 1000 bucks to me.

I never said "just" a nicer feeling neck. It's a big reason to prefer something. That said, one of my favorite feeling necks is on a guitar I payed $75 for. My current favorite neck is on a sub $1000 schecter. It's a matter of opinion, and has nothing to do with how "high end" something is. Just because someone prefers the neck on one doesn't make it objectively higher end.

High end just means quality materials, quality electronics, and quality craftsmanship. The handful of Kiesel guitars I've personally played felt and handled like high end instruments, and they are. The parts and craftsmanship arent cheap corner cut crap. No more or less bad than the handful of Mayones I've played. I just find it interesting that people think there is some huge gap between a Gibson, Mayones, Kiesel, Jackson, etc. The difference is in consistency, and Kiesel is missing the mark there. If you order a guitar from them, and they don't .... it up, it's high end in my eyes. Nice woods, good hardware, great sounding pickups, and quality fretwork.

Don't get me wrong, though... Customer service, and fixing what's wrong when it clearly is wrong, is a huge issue with these guys. I certainly won't give them any more of my money if this is how they treat customers. I also won't give money to Mayones, simply because the price is too much... A good chunk of what you're paying over here in the states isn't even the value of the guitar, but what taxes and such add on top.

I'm not a fan of the company anymore, but god damn it if the guitars they've made for me arent some of the best guitars I've played. Certainly not going to ever sell them.

 

[atticus1088]

Lol?

I don't know if this guy works for them. Just thought it was a timely and hilarious comment.

I own 2 Carvins and 1 Kiesel, and I've even been looking at purchasing a couple more, but the comment above has me thinking otherwise. The above Facebook post is disgusting. Venting about customers you aren't happy with is far from professional.

The only thing that comment accomplished was showing me (A potential future customer), how Kiesel deals with their problems. Just because you can post about poor dealings with customers, doesn't mean you should do it.