Latest mix - Low end going nuts

[schwiz]

Here's my latest mix. I for whatever reason just cannot tame the low end on this. Its all sorts of flubbery, and it pumps. I think it has to do with the midi velocities, but also having the kick and sub bass not compressed enough.

Guitars are TSE with GuitarHack IR's. Drums are SD2.0 Avatar kit. Nothing too special here.

Any thoughts on some things I could try on this? It's driving me nuts.

[SC]http://soundcloud.com/schwizbeats/bangover[/SC]

 

[Tegara]

There's almost nothing to tame down there. No low-mids on guitars, bass guitar's low register I can barely hear. I guess this is why the kick and snare might stick out for you and cause that "pumpy" feel, even though the drums lack bass too. I suggest using reference tracks more to get some perspective, and possibly better monitors and/or headphones. But more than anything, referencing. So: don't hi-pass your guitar like crazy, leave some low-mids, crank up the bass guitar, and more bass to drums, particularly kick and toms.

 

[DGChaos]

I am having trouble hearing the low end too. I'm still learning to mix myself, but in you place, I'd start by increasing the bass guitar's volume. Your headphones could be too bassy, or you may have been mixing without giving your ears a rest -- this could make the bass appear more prominent than it actually is.

 

[schwiz]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. This is the bane of my existence. I have a brand new pair of Rokit 8's and they are translating horribly in my room. When I listen to the mix, its boomy and the low end is out of control, but when I listen in my car, the sub bass isn't apparent, but the kick is still kind of flubbery. I'm trying to account for the room, but that isn't working as well. Also, I am only high passing guitars at 80hz, and the bass and kick around 30hz.

I really do need to start using reference tracks more. That may help the most in the meantime while I also figure out my room situation.

 

[KingAenarion]

And now you are seeing why:

A) Rokits are ....

B) Acoustics are important...

 

[schwiz]

Fuuuuuck. I'm like legitimately embarassed of this mix listening to it on my work headphones.

 

[gnoll]

I feel like I have similar problems where I can't really trust my monitors/room as much as I'd like.

What I thought I'd do is use my headphones as a compliment to the monitors, and kinda mix on both. People say mixing on headphones is bad, but I dunno, if you use them more as a reference/compliment where your room might not be 100% truthful, maybe it can at least help more than it hurts? At least that's what I'm hoping...

 

[KailM]

Fuuuuuck. I'm like legitimately embarassed of this mix listening to it on my work headphones.

I think it happens to everybody at some point. But you're doing the right thing by listening to it in a variety of settings and on different sound equipment. But yeah, like the others said, using reference tracks will help you save time on trial and error.

And this is coming from someone who knows *almost nothing* about mixing and mastering, but I try (and still know 10X more than I did a year ago).

 

[Great Satan]

Low-end mixin' tricks;

HPF the .... out of everything; even if it sounds a little too extreme solo the low energy build-up from multiple sound sources will still be there.

Surgical eq in the 120-140 zone; 100hz is good for bass but that specific area just above it is where the 'boom' lives and reducing/controlling that can really help clear up a mix quite a lot.

Waves C4 plugin; (or dynamic eq / multiband compressors in general) set it so the more signal going into 150hz and below, the more it attenuates it. The sound still retains some dynamics but is much more controllable now and a lot less overwhelming.

 

[schwiz]

I gave this another go. I took off every single plugin I had going on, on this track and completely started over. It was good practice I will say. This mix isn't perfect, but I think its a step in the right direction and I learned quite a bit about my room, mixing techniques, and overall composition.

[SC]http://soundcloud.com/schwizbeats/bangover-re-mixed-and-mastered[/SC]

What I'm still struggling with is getting the drums to sit in the middle of the mix. I have a feeling it has to do with the reverb FX sends that I have on the drum and guitar buses.

 

[jerm]

While I agree that you should probably high pass everything, I wouldn't high pass the F out of everything haha.

I usually high pass every track 50hz and upwards, and then on the master track I'll high pass around 30hz and up.

Remember, high passing doesn't take EVERYTHING away under that set frequency, it simply attenuates it depending on the db/oct. What's nice about FabFilter's Pro Q2 is that you can select the slope (db/oct.) of the high pass/low pass.

 

[KingAenarion]

While I agree that you should probably high pass everything, I wouldn't high pass the F out of everything haha.

I usually high pass every track 50hz and upwards, and then on the master track I'll high pass around 30hz and up.

Remember, high passing doesn't take EVERYTHING away under that set frequency, it simply attenuates it depending on the db/oct. What's nice about FabFilter's Pro Q2 is that you can select the slope (db/oct.) of the high pass/low pass.

It's actually really good practice to just listen to what you're removing and remove the unmusical information from what's there.

When using Pro Q 2, the solo band feature is SO good for this (press the little headphones icon), as you can hear just what you're removing in solo, which is especially good for HPF and LPF scenarios

 

[jerm]

^agreed, always use your ears and the solo band feature in Pro Q2 is awesome!

 

[schwiz]

I need more practice with this, as I have Q2.

Change 1 thing ever-so-slightly, and as a result 5 other things change. :/

 

[TedEH]

The second clip is definitely an improvement over the first. I think balance between each instrument makes sense, there's just a lot of space left in the low end with not much going on.

IMO I'd say make sure you're working against a reference song that you like the overall balance of, and keep working/fixing/re-doing the mix until it sounds like what you're going for. Sounds like you're headed in the right direction.

 

[schwiz]

The second clip is definitely an improvement over the first. I think balance between each instrument makes sense, there's just a lot of space left in the low end with not much going on.

IMO I'd say make sure you're working against a reference song that you like the overall balance of, and keep working/fixing/re-doing the mix until it sounds like what you're going for. Sounds like you're headed in the right direction.

Thanks man! I think where I'm struggling the most is on the stereo out/mastering channel. I get all the levels set for each track, and am happy with the overall balance of the instruments. Then I go to the master bus and add some light compression for glue, and ozone 5 for the multi-band and limiter. When I add ozone, it throws everything out of whack. All of a sudden the subtle parts that I wanted to be subtle are now exaggerated to sh*t, and the low end is flabby (hence why I back it off). I want the overall volume to be loud and whatnot, so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I'm at a point where I'm starting to get frustrated. I'm happy with the mix prior to it going to mastering, but just can't seem to get it right.

 

[TedEH]

multi-band

It's important to be careful with multi-band compressors, because they have a really strong eq-ing effect- they can have a huge effect on the overall balance of whatever you're applying it to. 99% of the time, I avoid multi-band stuff in favor of splitting tracks and processing each part separately (like I normally have at least two bass tracks - a low and high, split up using pass filters, so that I can process them both differently. Sometimes a third track added for grind/dirt).

Edit:
The SD kicks have tons of low/sub content to them, so something somewhere must be taking away from the low end, maybe your multi-band.

 

[TedEH]

And now you are seeing why:

A) Rokits are ....

B) Acoustics are important...

I agree with B, but I disagree with A. I've spent lots of time with g2 Rokit 8s, and as long as your room isn't horrible, they're perfectly usable. They get a lot of hate for being "budget" items, but it's like any other piece of recording equipment - past a certain point, it's less about the quality of the gear, and more about learning to work with what you've got.

 

[schwiz]

It's important to be careful with multi-band compressors, because they have a really strong eq-ing effect- they can have a huge effect on the overall balance of whatever you're applying it to. 99% of the time, I avoid multi-band stuff in favor of splitting tracks and processing each part separately (like I normally have at least two bass tracks - a low and high, split up using pass filters, so that I can process them both differently. Sometimes a third track added for grind/dirt).

Edit:
The SD kicks have tons of low/sub content to them, so something somewhere must be taking away from the low end, maybe your multi-band.

That is exactly how my bass track is setup. 1 for the low end: 30hz to around 160hz. 1 for the higher end at roughly 200hz to 600hz. I think you're right, the multi-band is really clamping down on that low end too hard, which is translating to me as "just fine" in Cubase, but when I render it, it is most definitely not fine.

Without any mastering or anything, my mix is so damn mid-range heavy. It's not bright at all. That may be just the nature of the of the music, but that is also throwing off my perception of what true high end should sound like. Like you said though; reference tracks ftw... need to be better about using them.

 

[TedEH]

Without any mastering or anything

Maybe the key is to try to get your balance right *before* going into the mastering steps. The mastering stage shouldn't have to alter the overall balance too much. You should be 99% of the way there with the mix, IMO. That's how I'd approach it anyway. Given that, for a lot of one-person-operations, the mix and mastering stages tend to overlap, I usually try to err on the side of doing too much mastering/polish stuff during the mix, rather than doing too much mixing stuff during the master. Just as when you're tracking, it's best to avoid "bah, I'll fix it in the mix", it's also best while mixing to avoid "bah, I'll fix it in the master".