Line 6 Helix Megathread - 2.80 update

[Carcaridon]

Saving programming would never save money, saving hardware would. Giving less amp models would never cut down on price, but cutting down on hardware would. Fancy displays, extra outputs, switches, etc... that is the stuff that costs money....

Unless they have to license something. That can bump up development costs.

 

[celticelk]

Saving programming would never save money, saving hardware would. Giving less amp models would never cut down on price, but cutting down on hardware would. Fancy displays, extra outputs, switches, etc... that is the stuff that costs money....

Eventide would be surprised to hear this, as the only difference between the various H9 models is which algorithms are included out of the box. (And the fact that the Max gets free lifetime access to new algorithms, but that's still a software difference - the hardware is identical.)

 

[Laimon]

Saving programming would never save money, saving hardware would. Giving less amp models would never cut down on price, but cutting down on hardware would. Fancy displays, extra outputs, switches, etc... that is the stuff that costs money....

Coding is work, and has a price. Even if the coding has already been done, it needs to be maintained, and even if it didn't it would still have his worth.
Rather, what would they gain from selling less amp models or less effects? Especially in the case of the amp models everyone would pick a small subset maybe even no model at all, if they plan to use it with an external amp, and Line 6 would be making much less money.

 

[Shask]

Eventide would be surprised to hear this, as the only difference between the various H9 models is which algorithms are included out of the box. (And the fact that the Max gets free lifetime access to new algorithms, but that's still a software difference - the hardware is identical.)

The H9 pedals have less hardware than their bigger pedals. Less knobs. Less display. They are selling the cheaper hardware for cheaper, and making pennies on the software.


It is a known fact. Google modelers and less amp models. You will find a thousand previous threads about this. Putting less amp models isn't going to change the price. A few less Kb in the memory is nothing.

The Fractal AX8 wont be cheaper than an Axe-FX II because it has less effects. It is because there are half the processors.

 

[celticelk]

The H9 pedals have less hardware than their bigger pedals. Less knobs. Less display. They are selling the cheaper hardware for cheaper, and making pennies on the software.

I think you misunderstood me. There are three different H9 models available, at three different price points, with the exact same hardware. The only difference is which algorithms are included with the unit when you purchase it. That seems to go against the argument you're making. As far as I know, all of the H9 models are more expensive than the Factor pedals (excepting possibly the Space), so your argument falls down on that point as well.

 

[albertc]

I think the high end modelling community bring this attitude on themselves by derailling a thread about a new line 6 product they have no intention of ever buying and trying to rubbish something not even released yet whilst trying to promote the unit they own.

It's because they are insecure about their purchase.

 

[mnemonic]

How many posts have really been made trying to tear it down and say x modeller is way better? Maybe you're reading into it a bit much? A bit of jealousy perhaps?

I'm an axe fx owner and I'm excited to see what this is like, though given line 6's track record I'm not gonna get my hopes that high. If it ends up being awesome and is different enough from my axe fx I may get one down the line.

If you're talking about comparisons in features and sounds (at least what we know so far) to existing modellers, then stop complaining, those comparisons are gonna happen because they're similar products in the same/very similar market.

 

[Shask]

I think you misunderstood me. There are three different H9 models available, at three different price points, with the exact same hardware. The only difference is which algorithms are included with the unit when you purchase it. That seems to go against the argument you're making. As far as I know, all of the H9 models are more expensive than the Factor pedals (excepting possibly the Space), so your argument falls down on that point as well.

Considering an H9 will run all their algorithms, it is cheaper than having to buy all 4 Factor pedals, so my argument still stands.

Notice that on the H9 the price is not proportional to the algorithms. You cant buy 1 sound for $50. There is a minimum cost for the hardware, after that it is about how much software they want to give you for free to sell the hardware.

There is no way they could take the Helix, take it down to 2 amp models and 2 effects and sell it for $99. That is the miracle that people always want, but it doesn't work like that.

 

[DarrellM5]

No big bottom?

Since I'll be running my HD500X in an effects loop, I'll still have the Big Bottom model in my arsenal.

 

[celticelk]

Considering an H9 will run all their algorithms, it is cheaper than having to buy all 4 Factor pedals, so my argument still stands.

Notice that on the H9 the price is not proportional to the algorithms. You cant buy 1 sound for $50. There is a minimum cost for the hardware, after that it is about how much software they want to give you for free to sell the hardware.

There is no way they could take the Helix, take it down to 2 amp models and 2 effects and sell it for $99. That is the miracle that people always want, but it doesn't work like that.

I don't think anyone's arguing that it should be $99. My point is that the idea that you could sell the hardware with fewer included algorithms for a lower price is not ridiculous on its face, as that's exactly what Eventide has been doing, and as far as I can tell, they've been pretty successful at it.

Your point about the H9 being cheaper than the four Factor pedals blatantly fails to account for the fact that if you buy all four Factors, you can run them all at the same time. Using one H9 gives you one sound at a time.

 

[lewis]

Since I'll be running my HD500X in an effects loop, I'll still have the Big Bottom model in my arsenal.

yes!! ahaha. Same regards to my HD Pro

 

[Lain]

I think it's hilarious how parts of the Axe-Fx community react.

 

[Mordacain]

You gotta admit it's accurate at least 90% of the time. (for guitar gear though I have no idea, boss seems to be the most popular pedal manufacturer and I think most of their pedals sound like ....)

No, I don't think you do have to admit it, it's an opinion based thing and without qualification stands meaningless. Regardless, everything that is now mainstream was once niche. Line 6 is no exception, they are synonymous with modelling because they were the first to successfully implement the technology and make it a viable product.

This is a perception based environment we live and work in. Your perception of Boss pedals is different from someone else's but there is no arguing that many an awesome recording was made with those pedals (and pedals of every other make and model under the sun).

The equipment one uses is mostly a subjective thing. There are some pieces of gear that can be legitimately measured as poor products (based on inherent noise, lower bit rates or poor-quality DACs in digital units or some other qualitatively measured feature) but in general, most gear can produce quality tones that work within a certain genre.

 

[Steinmetzify]

I think it's hilarious how parts of the Axe-Fx community react.

The thread on the FAS forum is twice this size lol.

 

[DarrellM5]

The thread on the FAS forum is twice this size lol.

Yep, and the thread over at TGP is 96 pages already!!! Line 6 definitely lit up the boards with the Helix.

 

[Lain]

TGP's digital forum is full of line6 fanboys though. The amplifi threads were pretty long already.

 

[Spinedriver]

For me the argument is going to be primarily economic. Although I won't be getting one at launch, further down the road in a year or two after the dust settles, it'll be much easier to get a hold of a Helix (new or used) than it will be an AX8 (the Axe-Fx is WAYYYY out of my budget). Whether the sound quality of one is slightly better than the other is basically a matter of opinion. Some people won't play anything BUT a Marshall JCM800 while other's wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole. Same for a Mesa Dual Rec, some think they are the best amp ever and others wouldn't use one if it was given to them. It's all a matter of taste.

The biggest argument here I think is going to be ease of access. Line 6 gear is easily among the most available gear this side of Marshall or Fender. Fractal gear (as far as I know) can only be bought online unless you find a used one somewhere. I guarantee that this will be a major deciding factor for a lot of people. The back & forth about sound quality is kind of moot since a) neither the Helix or AX8 have even been released yet and b) it's all opinion based anyway. The best way for Fractal to compete with Line 6 in all honesty is for them to find a way to step up their production ability and get their units into stores where people can try them out and a/b them against Line 6 gear directly instead of having to rely on demo videos.

 

[celticelk]

TGP's digital forum is full of line6 fanboys though. The amplifi threads were pretty long already.

Have you been following the Helix thread on TGP? Lots of posters taking L6 to task for past failures or perceived shortcomings of the Helix. It's certainly not just an L6 circle jerk over there.

 

[Lain]

Have you been following the Helix thread on TGP? Lots of posters taking L6 to task for past failures or perceived shortcomings of the Helix. It's certainly not just an L6 circle jerk over there.

It usually is, though. I got a .... ton of angry pm's for trash talking the Amplifi.
The people trash talking Line6 there are usually the same few.
The main helix post is full of people already talking about buying it.

 

[FRETPICK]

Are the Bank Buttons set in stone or can all buttons be assigned?