Line 6 Helix Megathread - 2.80 update

[Sumsar]

I just dealt with paying for Batman Arkham Knight before it came out (on pc) and that game is so broken Warner Brothers has suspended sales of the PC version until its fixed. This type of thing is becoming the rule, not the exception... So pre-ordering for me is a thing of the past.

Living in the past is great! Everything works (or you know beforehand that it will not), and everything is cheap or often on sale + your computer will usually not have issues running said games.

Just for backup for live gigs, maybe I should buy a pod HD in about ½ or a whole years time, when they will be sold used for 50€ due to the helix

 

[Lach Rae Dawn]

Living in the past is great! Everything works (or you know beforehand that it will not), and everything is cheap or often on sale + your computer will usually not have issues running said games.

Eeehh, to a degree, but "living in the past" typically slows down the developing future. Just saying. {seriously, so many good ideas are slowed to a freaking crawl, because it might threaten people's fantasies they have become too invested in}

Too close to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality... More justifications of useless traditionalism.

But I agree on single player games for what you are talking about, and even most movies. I don't want to derail the thread anymore about gaming. It was just the sentiment that I don't pre-order anymore, as it inherently brings along with it the often utilized potential of unwanted nonsense, especially while we still use archaic socio-economic systems.

Sorry, I ended up going on a bit of a rant there. Not at you, mainly at the ideas, and thought of pre-ordering a $1,500 dollar unit, and it having severe launch issues lol.

 

[Shask]

True, again with the plexi, but in that video I can easily hear the difference between the Pod HD, and the Helix. The Helix sounded way more real, and alive... It sounded like it had more depth, and the higher end of the frequency spectrum sounded WAY better. At least for this comparison anyway.

This video makes the HD500 sound like an AM radio. The Helix sounds much fuller and less band-limited. (not missing as many low-lows and hi-highs).


Ready for some other non-Plexi sounds!

 

[Lach Rae Dawn]

This video makes the HD500 sound like an AM radio. The Helix sounds much fuller and less band-limited. (not missing as many low-lows and hi-highs).


Ready for some other non-Plexi sounds!

Hear, hear!
I was thinking the same thing. It sounds like the HD is just an old radio, in comparison I mean.

This Helix seems like it will sound better than my Eleven Rack, and hopefully feels at least as nice. I mean seriously if the feel/sound quality gets between the 11r, and Axe FX then $1,500 is a pretty nice price considering it is a complete all in one recording/re-amping interface for the recording guitarist, and its other routing capabilities.

 

[Shask]

Hear, hear!
I was thinking the same thing. It sounds like the HD is just an old radio, in comparison I mean.

This Helix seems like it will sound better than my Eleven Rack, and hopefully feels at least as nice. I mean seriously if the feel/sound quality gets between the 11r, and Axe FX then $1,500 is a pretty nice price considering it is a complete all in one recording/re-amping interface for the recording guitarist, and its other routing capabilities.

I always thought the older PODs (xt, x3, HD) had this weird "overly dynamic" thing going on with feel. It is like they tried to model the dynamics and went too far. It is like an unnatural amount of dynamic range. I always found hey didn't sound as good unless I picked really hard.

Because of this I almost always ran a compressor first in the chain. Very subtle settings. However, this was enough to make it feel more realistic. I think in the HD I used the "Vetta Juice". I would never normally use a compressor at all in my high gain sounds, but it just worked for those units. I always felt like this improved the feel and made them feel more "realistic".

 

[DarthV]

Not just Mesa gear, but Fender, Gibson, Marshall, Vox, etc. That's because all of that gear will sell much more quickly. It's all about supply and demand. While digital guitar gear is growing strongly in popularity, traditional amps/cabs/pedals (and traditional brands) are still the main course for the overwhelming majority of musicians. Just browse a few forums. Tons of NGD posts all the time about tube amps, pedals, and cabs. Dedicated digital modeling forums barely get any activity in comparison, and many of the people who own digital rigs still buy & sell tube amps on the regular.

I HOPE more places carry the Helix because I'd like to try one, but based on all past experiences it'll be a "special order" item.

A lot of the gear on the floor at music stores is because it's a condition of them being a dealer for that brand. I know my local L&M is thinking about dropping the Mesa gear because it doesn't move quickly, eats up a huge amount of space and eats up inventory costs.

 

[Fretless]

I think I am going to get one just for the 4 effects loops, and the future possibilities that opens. What if I get a second kemper? Insta blend! Though I'll get the rack mount version, because like any guy, I love a good rack!

 

[Spinedriver]

A lot of the gear on the floor at music stores is because it's a condition of them being a dealer for that brand. I know my local L&M is thinking about dropping the Mesa gear because it doesn't move quickly, eats up a huge amount of space and eats up inventory costs.

I don't know how much Mesa gear moves here either but if they dropped Mesa, they would have to pick up something else because if not, the only amps in the store would be Fender, Marshall, Line 6 & Traynor. They don't carry Peavey any more and Bugera is pretty much by special order only, so they would kind of have to get something to fill in the gap like Randall or Blackstar.

 

[PBGas]

A lot of the gear on the floor at music stores is because it's a condition of them being a dealer for that brand. I know my local L&M is thinking about dropping the Mesa gear because it doesn't move quickly, eats up a huge amount of space and eats up inventory costs.

Only certain L&Ms carry Mesa. They seem to move fairly quickly at mine.

 

[HighGain510]

It figures right after this got announced, my name FINALLY got pulled on the Fractal FX8 list! I picked it up as I still wanted one to replace all of my floorboard pedals (might still keep my overdrive/TS pedals, have to spend more time with the FX8 drives to decide...) but since I'm keeping it I am planning to pick up a Helix as well so I can directly A/B the two to see how much coloration the Helix adds to the tone when used for effects only. The FX8 definitely sounds just as clear and uncolored as the amp does without the unit in front/in the loop so I'm sold there, but I have the 5150 III 50w + FX8 as well as the Kemper, so I'm also curious to hear how the modeling works through FRFR (Atomic CLR) compared to the Kemper! I think the routing looks super simple to set up so for that in particular I'm REALLY excited to pick one of these up to play with! I've really been getting back into Marshall-inspired medium and high gain amps so I'm hoping those sound pretty good!

 

[MASS DEFECT]

It figures right after this got announced, my name FINALLY got pulled on the Fractal FX8 list! I picked it up as I still wanted one to replace all of my floorboard pedals (might still keep my overdrive/TS pedals, have to spend more time with the FX8 drives to decide...) but since I'm keeping it I am planning to pick up a Helix as well so I can directly A/B the two to see how much coloration the Helix adds to the tone when used for effects only. The FX8 definitely sounds just as clear and uncolored as the amp does without the unit in front/in the loop so I'm sold there, but I have the 5150 III 50w + FX8 as well as the Kemper, so I'm also curious to hear how the modeling works through FRFR (Atomic CLR) compared to the Kemper! I think the routing looks super simple to set up so for that in particular I'm REALLY excited to pick one of these up to play with! I've really been getting back into Marshall-inspired medium and high gain amps so I'm hoping those sound pretty good!

Full review soon? I'd love to know more about it especially in 4CM with a 5150 type of amp. I'm still waiting for my name to be called in the waiting list.

 

[FRETPICK]

Pulled from the Fractal forums (User-FractalAudio):

"Let me straighten all this out.

1. The Axe-Fx II is still the most powerful guitar processor ever created. A TigerSHARC is about twice as fast as a SHARC clock-for-clock. Additionally the TigerSHARC's we use run 33% faster than the fastest SHARC. The Axe-FX II has two of these. Therefore it's got about three times the power of a Helix.

2. The upcoming AX-8 has the exact same DSP complement as the Helix. It will therefore be equal in processing power. We also have many years of experience in code optimization. I've been writing DSP code for Analog Devices DSPs for over 20 years. I guarantee our algorithms are at least as efficient if not more so.

3. Our modeling algorithms are the best in the world. They are very detailed and require lots of processing power. We could've easily designed the AX-8 to run four amp models but the decision was made to use the same algorithm as the Axe-Fx II. This algorithm is extremely detailed and only one instance would run with the available processing power.

4. The Helix is a "check the boxes" product. It's all about features. If a myriad of features is what you want then it's the product for you. A big, color LCD is pretty and all but it doesn't improve the sound quality. It's also very expensive which means that you can be sure that pennies were pinched elsewhere to meet the cost target. Our research shows that most people do their editing on a computer so why put an expensive color display into something when it's not necessary. Put the money into the important stuff like signal path and processing power.

5. We don't skimp on the design inside. All Fractal Audio products use full-differential analog processing which is expensive. I can almost guarantee that the Helix will be a single-ended design as all their previous products are single-ended. We also use premium op-amps and film caps whereas competitors use cheap TL07x op-amps and electrolytic caps. The results of this philosophy are manifested in the FX-8. It is the first all-digital effects processor that has zero "tone suck". No one else was able to do it until now. But it wasn't cheap to do that. It requires expensive components and careful design.

It's about a difference in design philosophy. Do you want something that looks pretty and has a bunch of bells and whistles or do you want something that is purpose-built for the absolute best sound quality. The Helix is an attractive product with a lot of features. Our products aren't as pretty and don't have all those features. But they are the best modelers in the world and that's our design philosophy. Do you want an Olympus or a Leica. I'll take the Leica.

Edit: I want to be clear that I think the Helix is a fine product (as I said earlier). It's a different design philosophy and if that philosophy resonates with you then you should buy that."

You can't fault the knowledge, dedication and math.

 

[Glass Cloud]

Sounds like they're mad that some people are going to choose a similar, but much cheaper product over theirs. Idk why they haven't come out with a cheaper unit.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Sounds like they're mad that some people are going to choose a similar, but much cheaper product over theirs. Idk why they haven't come out with a cheaper unit.

Yeah, that did come off as a little defensive. While a lot of fellow Fractal users might not think Fractal has anything to worry about, obviously Fractal feels the Helix is worthy of this kind of post, and thus they feel it will possibly eat into sales, especially of the cheaper units.

The talking down of the interface and features, which are probably the second and third most important thing after tone, is pretty telling as well.

If I was a studio musician or played in a big band that required the same presets night after night, the Fractal interface would be fine. But that's not me. I play at home for the few minutes a day I actually get to play, thanks to a busy schedule, or I go to jam on whatever with friends where we can be playing classic rock covers, riff on some death metal, or ham it up 70's and 80's area style. Having the ability to quickly and intuitively make adjustments is more important to me than the 1% - 10% better my AxeFX II sounds compared to my HD500, and it looks like the Helix will be even easier to adjust.

It cost me ~$2500 for my AxeFx, if having a better interface raises the prices by even $500 I'd happily pay it. Are LCDs really that much? I just bought an 8" tablet with a beautiful display for $140.

 

[MASS DEFECT]

True, the Axe Fx is really hard to adjust on the fly. You would need the Axe Edit most of the time. Wondering how is the UI on the FX8 and AX8. If I can adjust every important parameter during a gig and rehearsal, like how this Helix probably can, then that would be a great thing.

I'm honestly waiting for the AX8. But the Helix is right on top of my buying list.

 

[InFlames235]

Yeah, that did come off as a little defensive. While a lot of fellow Fractal users might not think Fractal has anything to worry about, obviously Fractal feels the Helix is worthy of this kind of post, and thus they feel it will possibly eat into sales, especially of the cheaper units.

The talking down of the interface and features, which are probably the second and third most important thing after tone, is pretty telling as well.

If I was a studio musician or played in a big band that required the same presets night after night, the Fractal interface would be fine. But that's not me. I play at home for the few minutes a day I actually get to play, thanks to a busy schedule, or I go to jam on whatever with friends where we can be playing classic rock covers, riff on some death metal, or ham it up 70's and 80's area style. Having the ability to quickly and intuitively make adjustments is more important to me than the 1% - 10% better my AxeFX II sounds compared to my HD500, and it looks like the Helix will be even easier to adjust.

It cost me ~$2500 for my AxeFx, if having a better interface raises the prices by even $500 I'd happily pay it. Are LCDs really that much? I just bought an 8" tablet with a beautiful display for $140.

The LCD is probably not what is the biggest cost. I'd bet that the R&D for the new software and interface is what is largely the majority of the cost and is something Fractal would want to avoid if they could.

Problem for me is that I'm in the same bucket as you and am not a professional musician who wants to spend hours and hours tweaking, presetting, going back to my computer for more tweaking, etc. etc. I just want to be able to setup my tone fairly easily and play with the limited time I have. If the FX-8 or AX-8 are significantly more difficult to dial in on the fly, that's an issue for me at least.

I'd actually rather get an FX-8 than the Helix because it saves me $150 and I only really want the FX and not the amp modeling, but that's why I created my other thread for the FX-8 reviews to see how they like it, ease of use, sound quality, etc.

 

[prozak]

Yeah, that did come off as a little defensive. Having the ability to quickly and intuitively make adjustments is more important to me than the 1% - 10% better my AxeFX II sounds compared to my HD500, and it looks like the Helix will be even easier to adjust.

That's exactly the issue, as always. When I buy a new graphics card I always ask myself - why didn't I buy a better, a faster one, even if it offers only about 10% more horsepower/frames per second and costs at least ~ 30% more. Not to mention that I'm already 30 years old and that I should've learned something out of it....That's something that will always be bothering and chasing us. It's been annoying us since we were kids, right?

 

[Laimon]

I just want to be able to setup my tone fairly easily and play with the limited time I have. If the FX-8 or AX-8 are significantly more difficult to dial in on the fly, that's an issue for me at least.

One of the reasons I am 95% sure I am gonna get an Helix is the memory of my first multieffect processor, a Digitech 2120: there it was a breeze tweaking and assigning controls, and I think it's really important to have as little obstacles as possible, when creativity hits.
Alas, interface and feature list are the only things we can judge about it for now. But exactly for this reason I think that 1) it is unfair (not to mention inappropriate) of Cliff to judge the quality of the product and claim that his has better sound quality (how should he know?), and 2) he now tries to diminish the importance of interfaces not to admit that his suck. They really really do.

 

[Emperoff]

I don't know about you guys, but Cliff coming out the way he did clearly smells like fear of losing sales to me. I find it very unprofessional when company heads talk down other companies/products (even if they are right).

I know Axe-Fx fanboys won't agree, but lot's of people agree that the HD500's tone gets a big leap forward when using impulses, getting much closer to the Axe-Fx than what price tags may suggest. The Helix will support IR's, so it will sound at least that good.

So IF the unit performs as expected (the BIAS-like interface on the unit looks stellar), sounds good and it's sturdy to whitstand serious touring, these will definetely bite Fractal sales. Let me put it this way: Easier editing, all the features you'll ever need, good sound (even if it can't top the Axe-Fx), and rugged construction... For 1000$ less. Seriously, what's not to love?

For years guitar Multi-Fx world summed into Boss GT/Pod - Axe/Kemper (with a 2000$ price gap in between). Stop bashing and rejoice with new alternatives like the Helix, Amplifire and ISP Theta Pro

 

[FRETPICK]

You can always judge these units by how many hours you can put into them. If you are spending hours adjusting your tones and it's REALLY working for you, then it's money well spent.

AXE FX II reigns supreme but that is a professional unit aimed at the professional users. Helix is aimed at professionals also but build and tech spec wise is on another different level. Both units are great especially if you take into account Processor Histories over the last 20 years.

I'm not into editing presets on laptops/computers, not my thing. I like to keep my tracking world and my guitar program work separate. Hands on is great but Helix does Feet On!! How many of us have spent hours sitting up playing, bending down, program, back up again, back down again. Even so, I can't see myself editing with my feet or maybe I will.

Not sure if you guys noticed but processing sound wise, when you heard Helix's synth guitar sound added with the guitar, I immediately thought there may have been a slight delay or perhaps not as full sounding. Detailed complicated algorithms and raw processing power and Helix maybe struggling with all that is it tasked with. Perhaps it's maybe a preset gate issue.

You'll soon know what Helix can do because if you do loops and the tone is sucked out (sample rate playback) because the unit is trying to do many things at once, reverbs, cab models, amp models, effects, microphone emulations, etc, etc and it all adds up. If the tone remains integral while doing all those things you know you are onto a winning Multi Effects Unit.

There are so many things I like about Helix. I like the metal buttons, the preset screens, main LCD display, the Mic's, expansion capabilities, Amps, Cabs and Dynamics! The sound comparison between HD and Helix = Night and Day.

What happens when you drop a headstock on the LCD screen? Line6 haven't rolled a Tank over it thus far. The Tank Test. The Line6 Tested To Destruction Series. The Niagara Falls Test. Helix at the Grand Canyon. Helix Vs Gravity. Helix Vs Robb Flynn....Today we will be using a Ten Ton Hammer. Helix will Take My Scars.