Line 6 Helix Megathread - 2.80 update

[Spinedriver]

Welp, at $2400 bucks down here, I think I'll stick with my GSP1101.

Same here..

While it would be nice, I would probably have to sell most of my music gear to pay for it. On top of that, most of the features I'd probably never use. I think I'll probably wait a year or two and check one out once the used ones start popping up (or the price comes down).

 

[prozak]

1500 € here in Europe....tnx but I'll stick with my HD500 for quite some time.

 

[Luppin]

Another video from NAMM, has a small sample of a high gain tone

 

[Axayacatl]

Long time Line 6 user here. I have really enjoyed a number of Line 6 products. I grew up playing Line 6 stuff and I have owned a Flextone II, all pre HD500 POD iterations, an FBV shortboard, a GX, an Alchemist, plus some others. And I happen to think that the DT line of amps sounds pretty phenomenal.

Line 6's marketing strategy for the Helix seems to be to talk a lot about how easy it is to tweak and to emphasize just how much time and hard work went into developing their product.

Fractal sells the Axe Fx 2 on the strength of the tone it produces. And Cliff's research, work ethic, and dedication is largely left to the fanboys to glorify and speculate about.

Last night I started off with a blank grid on my Axe Fx 2. It took me exactly 30 seconds to select a Jumped 1959 Marshall Super and a random 4x12 IR and to dime both gains as well as the bass, mid, and treble. And then I lost the next 2 hours to tonal bliss.

The ''Axe Fx 2 = endless tweaking, I just wanna play" mantra rings a little fake, but then again my ears are probably crap.

Seriously, Line 6, spare me/us the comical montage of somebody getting tangled under a blanket and then nearly losing their sanity as a result. Drowning under a blanket has never been an issue for anybody anywhere though your concern is of course appreciated. What we really want is to hear about is just how soft and snuggly the blanket actually is.

Until we hear more tone demos it really seems like Line 6 is selling us this product:

 

[Spinedriver]

Another video from NAMM, has a small sample of a high gain tone

Ya ninja'd me... I just came across this and thought, "wow, it sounds like balls but it's the 1st ever sample with some gain". Even though it was the SLO-100 recorded poorly, it does show a bit of light at the end of the tunnel for those wondering because it didn't sound all that bad under the circumstances. With any luck there might be some more demos popping up soon.

 

[edsped]

Long time Line 6 user here. I have really enjoyed a number of Line 6 products. I grew up playing Line 6 stuff and I have owned a Flextone II, all pre HD500 POD iterations, an FBV shortboard, a GX, an Alchemist, plus some others. And I happen to think that the DT line of amps sounds pretty phenomenal.

Line 6's marketing strategy for the Helix seems to be to talk a lot about how easy it is to tweak and to emphasize just how much time and hard work went into developing their product.

Fractal sells the Axe Fx 2 on the strength of the tone it produces. And Cliff's research, work ethic, and dedication is largely left to the fanboys to glorify and speculate about.

Last night I started off with a blank grid on my Axe Fx 2. It took me exactly 30 seconds to select a Jumped 1959 Marshall Super and a random 4x12 IR and to dime both gains as well as the bass, mid, and treble. And then I lost the next 2 hours to tonal bliss.

The ''Axe Fx 2 = endless tweaking, I just wanna play" mantra rings a little fake, but then again my ears are probably crap.

Seriously, Line 6, spare me/us the comical montage of somebody getting tangled under a blanket and then nearly losing their sanity as a result. Drowning under a blanket has never been an issue for anybody anywhere though your concern is of course appreciated. What we really want is to hear about is just how soft and snuggly the blanket actually is.

Until we hear more tone demos it really seems like Line 6 is selling us this product:

The grid layout is annoying to navigate if you run most of your stuff in series, which is what I imagine most people do. More than five things and everything won't even fit on the screen.

Normal navigation is annoying too since you just have four directional buttons and a single jog wheel. The quick control knobs are good in theory but the execution is bad. They're too cramped, you have to grip them with two fingers to turn them instead of being able to just roll them with a single finger, and the dynamic assignment is clumsy since you still have to scroll around the parameters with the directional buttons until the quick control knobs are assigned where you want them. It was quicker and easier for me to just use the main jog wheel than the "quick" control knobs.

And of course with there only being a single knob for adjusting values that means you're gonna be doing a WHOLE LOT of menu scrolling to tweak stuff.

I guess it doesn't bother some people and it really depends on how much stuff you actually tweak, but the Helix and Kemper methods of having dedicated buttons for accessing individual effects and multiple soft knobs for controlling parameters is a million times better than scrolling around a cursor forever.

 

[Axayacatl]

The grid layout is annoying to navigate if you run most of your stuff in series, which is what I imagine most people do. More than five things and everything won't even fit on the screen.

Normal navigation is annoying too since you just have four directional buttons and a single jog wheel. The quick control knobs are good in theory but the execution is bad. They're too cramped, you have to grip them with two fingers to turn them instead of being able to just roll them with a single finger, and the dynamic assignment is clumsy since you still have to scroll around the parameters with the directional buttons until the quick control knobs are assigned where you want them. It was quicker and easier for me to just use the main jog wheel than the "quick" control knobs.

And of course with there only being a single knob for adjusting values that means you're gonna be doing a WHOLE LOT of menu scrolling to tweak stuff.

I guess it doesn't bother some people and it really depends on how much stuff you actually tweak, but the Helix and Kemper methods of having dedicated buttons for accessing individual effects and multiple soft knobs for controlling parameters is a million times better than scrolling around a cursor forever.

Your point is well taken since my own perspective is admittedly badly skewed from being perfectly content to use my Axe Fx 2 in a guitar --> amp --> cab context. Perhaps with some reverb and delay splashed in. That said the FAS navigation approach fits me very well even when editing more complicated patches. I find it is well thought out and consistent while the Kemper interface felt like it was designed by a really smart person on an acid trip. Each to his own, that's just my opinion. The Kemper is awesome, too.

Different users will have different priorities and I'm not a pro user by any stretch of the imagination. For my purposes, whether or not a product is easier to tweak in the context of a very complicated preset matters a lot less than achieving a great sound in a simple preset. If the latter is not true then the former becomes kind of irrelevant. BTW, I'm pretty sure my preset amateurishness is representative of most consumers.

The reason I moved away from Line 6 was precisely because I was tired of tweaking away endlessly. The recorded end product can certainly be stellar (as can most other digital products in the right hands) but the feel was simply not there. I was always waiting for and buying the latest expansion, the amp that would do it for me. With the Axe the new amps are always appreciated but the truth of the matter is that 2-3 amp models do it for me and many other users as well and that speaks to the quality of the product.

I'm eager for the Helix to be an amazing one-stop solution and I can't wait to experience for myself what the amp models actually feel and sound like. The most important thing for me will be the amp --> cab sound and feel and all that talk in the the Tone King video about creating patches 'at the speed of thought' comes across as really gimmicky and of second order importance.

 

[Devyn Eclipse Nav]

Last night I started off with a blank grid on my Axe Fx 2. It took me exactly 30 seconds to select a Jumped 1959 Marshall Super and a random 4x12 IR and to dime both gains as well as the bass, mid, and treble. And then I lost the next 2 hours to tonal bliss.

The ''Axe Fx 2 = endless tweaking, I just wanna play" mantra rings a little fake, but then again my ears are probably crap.

Your point is well taken since my own perspective is admittedly badly skewed from being perfectly content to use my Axe Fx 2 in a guitar --> amp --> cab context.

That's the thing - you're content with something simple. Which, on it's own, can be done easily on any of the modern digital modellers

But issue is when you get into editing the deep parameters. That's not so simple, until now. With my HD500X, if I want to edit my delay at the end of my chain, I gotta get the cursor over there, double click the enter button, and then I can only adjust each parameter one at a time, so there's a lot of scrolling back and forth, to say, balance the feedback and mix controls so the delay is just loud enough, and hangs around for just long enough.

The Helix makes that so much easier - tap the footswitch your delay is assigned to with your finger, and it automatically pulls up the delay block and gives you all the options right there with the knobs under the screen.

I'd only assume it's similar with the Axe FX, gotta scroll all over hell's half acre until you get to the parameter you want to adjust.

So while it may seem like a tiny thing, the way they're handling the UI with the Helix is a HUGE thing that'll save a lot of people a lot time. There's a lot to be said about making the end user experience quicker and simpler.

 

[SnoozyWyrm]

All nice and dandy but I think most of us are getting a bit bored. The hype will last only so much without some substantial demoing of the product. If the pedalboard version is supposed to ship in a month, put it in a room with a versatile guitarist and present to your potential customers 5-10 factory presets.

30 seconds of Plexi, Twin and those latest 30 seconds of bad quality recording of SLO is not enough. It doesn't let the man-month-per-amp-model show. And it's not convincing the sceptics to get your product.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Yeah I dunno, unless a solid studio/direct sound clip convinces me otherwise, I'll save my saliva. I also don't get why they keep trying to push the "dynamics are great when you roll back the volume knob" speech, because I can do that with my pod no problem

 

[Spinedriver]

I'd be willing to bet that when it gets close to the "official" release, there will be a boatload of demos popping up on Youtube. I can only assume that there haven't been all that many because either a) no one really has one to demo (aside from Sweetwater) or b) Line 6 has asked them not to put them up until a certain date.

 

[Axayacatl]

.... With my HD500X, if I want to edit my delay at the end of my chain, I gotta get the cursor over there, double click the enter button, and then I can only adjust each parameter one at a time, so there's a lot of scrolling back and forth, to say, balance the feedback and mix controls so the delay is just loud enough, and hangs around for just long enough.

The Helix makes that so much easier - tap the footswitch your delay is assigned to with your finger, and it automatically pulls up the delay block and gives you all the options right there with the knobs under the screen.

I'd only assume it's similar with the Axe FX, gotta scroll all over hell's half acre until you get to the parameter you want to adjust.

Thing is I've developed this Shawn Lane-esque ability to tap that 'Edit' button on the Axe at warp speed and magically land on the intended block. It looks like a nervous tick. Kidding aside, you're perfectly right, I'm glossing over a really nice feature brought to the table by the Helix.

Though I'll bet you a a man-months worth of sandwiches that Cliff can program something similar for the Axe. A free firmware upgrade where you put the MFC in a special editing mode and hit the relevant foot switch to jump to the correct editing block. Not as polished as the Helix (and a much more expensive initial investment) but I'm sure it can be done.

30 seconds of Plexi, Twin and those latest 30 seconds of bad quality recording of SLO is not enough. It doesn't let the man-month-per-amp-model show. And it's not convincing the sceptics to get your product.

This seems relevant. I found this after I watched the video because I was really confused about all the man-monthing going on. "Brooks discusses several causes of scheduling failures. The most enduring is his discussion of Brooks's law: Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later. Man-month is a hypothetical unit of work representing the work done by one person in one month; Brooks's law says that the possibility of measuring useful work in man-months is a myth, and is hence the centerpiece of the book." (My emphasis added because I'm a tremendous Fractal-worshipping douchebag.)

Yeah I dunno, unless a solid studio/direct sound clip convinces me otherwise, I'll save my saliva. I also don't get why they keep trying to push the "dynamics are great when you roll back the volume knob" speech, because I can do that with my pod no problem

I remember I actually owned the floor unit HD500 for a bit, right before I got my Fractal. The HD500 did improve the volume rollback dynamics compared to my previous Line 6 units but the difference with the Axe is remarkable. On the Axe a dimed plexi with the guitar volume rolled back produces a clean tone that is super thick and chunky and sparkly. In other words, it retains the characteristics that define that amp's 'full volume' tone but in a clean voicing. On my POD rolling the volume back just produced a brittle sound. Again a disclaimer, this is coming from a bedroom rocker Yngwie wannabe, not Andy Sneap.

I'm going to shut up because at this point I'm just describing my asshole and sounding like a Fractal fanboy and/or a Helix hater. I'm just an amateur consumer and I'd love to see the Helix be a smash hit. But if I were on Team Line 6 I'd be unhappy about our product rollout. The Helix has been in Line 6's own hands for years and as SnoozyWyrm said above, it's been 30 seconds of a tweed and 30 seconds of a plexi and the amp dynamics sound as mythical as the man-months stuff.

Line 6, take a man-months worth of a budget and sit this bad ass Line 6 representative down with both a Helix and a video production team and start selling me some freakin' amp dynamics!!!

 

[Devyn Eclipse Nav]

Though I'll bet you a a man-months worth of sandwiches that Cliff can program something similar for the Axe. A free firmware upgrade where you put the MFC in a special editing mode and hit the relevant foot switch to jump to the correct editing block. Not as polished as the Helix (and a much more expensive initial investment) but I'm sure it can be done.

With current Axe Hardware, it'd be impossible to completely match the way the helix instant editing works - they've mentioned a few times that the footswitches are capacitive - ie they're touch sensitive like your smartphone screen. That's how the editing is working - not by completely depressing and releasing the switch - it's adding a completely new level of control.

Could Cliff do it on a future MFC controller? Almost guaranteed, and I'm sure he will now that Line 6 has brought that capability to the table, but it's already a $700+ piece of gear - it's just gonna get more expensive from there.

 

[elkinz]

$2799 down here in New Zealand.

$3985 for a kemper.

$3799 for an AxeFX XL...


WHY NEW ZEALAND WHYYYYYY!?

 

[Fretless]

To the person with the snuggy picture, I received a snuggy as a gift from one of the agencies we work with, and let me tell you, it's actually kinda nice lol.

 

[Steinmetzify]

$2799 down here in New Zealand.

$3985 for a kemper.

$3799 for an AxeFX XL...


WHY NEW ZEALAND WHYYYYYY!?

Is this not something we could help you get around? I've wondered about this a few times seeing how expensive things are for you guys and people in Australia or whatever. Could you throw a friend here $ and have them buy it and ship it, or would that be just as expensive?

 

[elkinz]

Is this not something we could help you get around? I've wondered about this a few times seeing how expensive things are for you guys and people in Australia or whatever. Could you throw a friend here $ and have them buy it and ship it, or would that be just as expensive?

I imagine it would, just the main problem is the cost of shipping and then the import tax. Its at least 15% I haven't really looked into it too much

 

[Axayacatl]

To the person with the snuggy picture, I received a snuggy as a gift from one of the agencies we work with, and let me tell you, it's actually kinda nice lol.

I know this is going to sound strange, but you just sold me on the Line 6 Helix.

 

[Fathand]

Old-school volume pot fiddling works - sold! When I upgrade my home recording setup, the Helix will receive appropriate consideration.

And I'm thinking also that a Helix + matrix power amp would = win.

 

[Fretless]

I know this is going to sound strange, but you just sold me on the Line 6 Helix.

My life long goal is complete. Sell an item by advertising how comfortable a snuggy is.

Were I not buying a new hand gun tomorrow (and buying some new suits today), I would be pre ordering the helix. I've used the axe II's effects a lot, and the kemper's effects a lot, but there is something about the line 6 effects that I really like. Maybe I am crazy, but they have a sound to them that I find unique.