The routing alone make it entirely worth it for me. I have my 3 strymon pedals each in their own loop. Makes it really nice when triggering them, or just placing them in a patch.
Line 6 Helix Megathread - 2.80 update
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The routing alone make it entirely worth it for me. I have my 3 strymon pedals each in their own loop. Makes it really nice when triggering them, or just placing them in a patch.
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Lach Rae Dawn
Well-Known Member
The 8x8 USB made it worth it for me. Only guitar processor that I know of that has all of this in one single unit. Reduces the unnecessary A/D/A conversion.
As it stands if I went Axe or Kemper I would need a separate high quality audio interface to ReAmp how I want. I could go completely digital in the connections but this way is almost twice the price of going the route I did.
The Helix all in one box for me really hits home. I can dial in (for ReAmping) left, and right rhythm guitars, both with separate signal chains, while listening to the mix all at the same time.
The 8x8 USB made it worth it for me. Only guitar processor that I know of that has all of this in one single unit. Reduces the unnecessary A/D/A conversion.
As it stands if I went Axe or Kemper I would need a separate high quality audio interface to ReAmp how I want. I could go completely digital in the connections but this way is almost twice the price of going the route I did.
The Helix all in one box for me really hits home. I can dial in (for ReAmping) left, and right rhythm guitars, both with separate signal chains, while listening to the mix all at the same time.
I don't know why you'd need a seperate interface to reamp if you had an axe or a kemper, Going digital is going to be the same with anything really.
Lach Rae Dawn
Well-Known Member
I mean I would have to use a different interface if I went with those instead of the Helix.
Because neither the Kemper, nor the Axe FX have enough channels on USB to accommodate what I mentioned above by being the interface themselves. 4x2 on the Axe FX, the Kemper I am not so sure about, but I thought I read somewhere that it was like the Axe FX, or even less.
I'm not knocking the KPA, or AXE FX, as they are phenomenal as well, but they just can't do what I want in a single unit. Especially for the price.
Hell, with the Helix, I could easily incorporate a KPA, or AXE FX down the line into my setup using the digital connections no problem, and lose 0 of my routing potential.
According to Digital Igloo on the Helix forums, the new "Fatality" original amp model is a heavily modified rectifier. It can get pretty brutal: https://soundcloud.com/sam14-1/line-6-helix-fatality-amp-test
Dang. That's seriously good sounding.
Hi Guys ,
Recently invested in a pretty expensive computer to record stuff on.
The helix looks so tempting.
I'm currently using an X3 live followed by an IR plugin on my DAW, which gives me pretty decent tone - with a little tweaking
.
What could the possible reasons to upgrade to the Helix be?
Recently invested in a pretty expensive computer to record stuff on.
The helix looks so tempting.
I'm currently using an X3 live followed by an IR plugin on my DAW, which gives me pretty decent tone - with a little tweaking
.What could the possible reasons to upgrade to the Helix be?
Hi Guys ,
Recently invested in a pretty expensive computer to record stuff on.
The helix looks so tempting.
I'm currently using an X3 live followed by an IR plugin on my DAW, which gives me pretty decent tone - with a little tweaking
What could the possible reasons to upgrade to the Helix be?
Quality of amp sims, flexible routing, great effects, no need for an IR loader (you can place effects after the cabinet now for example), simplicity in that it is much easier to dial in patches, and so many more aspects that in my opinion make this worth upgrading, especially if you're putting money into your recording system.
I am pretty tired of messing around and wasting time fiddling with my tone, when I could be playing - which I believe the Helix is good for.
Can you add multiple stomps/ pedals in a chain as well as change the chain order on helix? Eg. Add 2 noise gates wherever you want to.
Also what is the final word on this vs the AX8 or even the Axe FXii/ Kemper?
I tried making a mix today with the Pod X3 live and IRs like I usually do. Bloody thing wasn't cooperating - all 16th notes at 160 bpm sounded super muddy and indistinct...How can this be solved?
Can you add multiple stomps/ pedals in a chain as well as change the chain order on helix? Eg. Add 2 noise gates wherever you want to.
Also what is the final word on this vs the AX8 or even the Axe FXii/ Kemper?
I tried making a mix today with the Pod X3 live and IRs like I usually do. Bloody thing wasn't cooperating - all 16th notes at 160 bpm sounded super muddy and indistinct...How can this be solved?
Lach Rae Dawn
Well-Known Member
Kemper, Axe FX II, AX8, and Helix most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a truly blind test. We are at the point of diminishing returns when it comes to digital emulation. Meaning: yes, we can still evolve it and improve the quality, however it will only be incremental at best. (perceptively) Do not expect Ax FX III, Kemper II, or Helix II to be as big improvement in emulation, as Axe FX II, Kemper, and Helix were compared to things like the POD, or most Digitech offerings.
The tones are great. To your other questions, in regards to capabilities of the Helix.. Yes to all of them. The signal chain is fully flexible. The signal path inputs themselves have optional gates on them, as well as a (Hard gate) and (soft gate) stomp boxes if I remember correctly. You could put the amp first or last, or no amp at all. You can have as many stomp boxes as you want, in whatever order you want (provided you don't max out the DSP) Then you can just utilize the other pathways which utilize the second DSP chip and even further your chain possibilities.
Dialing in tone with the Helix has been the easiest, and fastest than any other digital modeler. The on-board unit interface is as fast as the Eleven Rack -PC editor with mouse and keyboard- is for me.
The ReAmping capabilities cannot be matched in a single unit by any other offering on the market. The Helix is clearly the king in that department, with the routing, and its USB potential.
How about the direct recording capabilities of the Helix ?
With the X3 live, there's always (understandably - or so I believe) a difference in tone between what I get over my speakers and what comes out of an amp, with an amp of course being much warmer and clearer etc.
Could I record great metal/ blues/ whatever by directly plugging the helix into my PC over USB?Eqing and double/ quad tracking are a given ofcourse - but I don't want to keep endlessly fiddling with tone!
With the X3 live, there's always (understandably - or so I believe) a difference in tone between what I get over my speakers and what comes out of an amp, with an amp of course being much warmer and clearer etc.
Could I record great metal/ blues/ whatever by directly plugging the helix into my PC over USB?Eqing and double/ quad tracking are a given ofcourse - but I don't want to keep endlessly fiddling with tone!
Lach Rae Dawn
Well-Known Member
By Speakers I assume you mean something along the lines of an FRFR setup, or studio monitors. (which have a much wider frequency response than guitar amps)
If this is the case the reason the AMP being warmer and clearer is because of its limited frequency response compared to that of the FRFR, or Studio Monitors. (which will sound more boomy, and shrill, compared to an amp because of this) Amps usually don't produce much under 100hz, and usually roll off gradually, or sharply depending on the amp, around the 5khz-ish mark.
The way to get around this is to manually set the Hi- and Low cut in the Helix to compensate.
This is found in several locations. It can be done via global EQ. It can be done in the AMP, and in the CAB parameters. There is actually a hi-low cut available on several FX parameters as well. I have read that most people like the result of doing it in the CAB section, or the IR that they have loaded in place of a CAB.
EDIT: Also there is Guitar input Impedance that you can set per preset! Which also can also affect tone.
Lach Rae Dawn
Well-Known Member
No problem, I am glad I could be of assistance.
Another question - if the lower (say below 100 Hz) and higher (say above 10 kHZ frequencies) don't play a role in the sound - for overdriven sounds anyway, why are they included in these amp models/ patches in the first place?
KristapsCoCoo
Well-Known Member
Those are present in real amps too, cab's usually cut/don't reflect those frequencies. On modelers where you have good EQ's, you can add and cut freq's, so that's not a problem at all.
Here's what it's boiling down to for me guys:
1. Line 6 helix usability benefits/ issues:
- Great onboard UI
- Great looking tone editor on PC etc.
- Direct USB recording with the same latency as any professional Audio interface (correct this if I'm wrong please)
- A bunch of possible routing/ wiring configurations, including some not so useful ones for me (eg. Variax)
- On board expression pedal
- Better update cycle so far than what has been seen from Line 6 in the past.
2. AX8 usability benefits/ issues:
- Great looking tone editor on PC etc.
- Tones direct from Pro artists via their forum etc.
- Continuous free updates and improvements
- Issue 1: Will need separate audio interface (probably something like the 2i2 (Focusrite) )whch is retailing at 149 USD now.
- Issue 2: No expression pedal (possibly not so important)
- Issue 3: No onboard UI niceties (scribble strips, color LCD etc) like the Helix
However, inspite of all this - the most important factor for me - and for most guitarists I hope - should be the tone. Most demos I hear put the AX8 ahead in this department. But then you hear that the Helix with some custom IRs can sound the same as an AX8. What do I mean by tone? Less muddy distortion, attack depending on how you pick, dynamics etc etc.
Opinions still welcome...I want to buy one of these things and still can't decide. It's not possible to try both and send one back either - that will be an initial investment of 3000 USD - plus fees to send one of them back.
1. Line 6 helix usability benefits/ issues:
- Great onboard UI
- Great looking tone editor on PC etc.
- Direct USB recording with the same latency as any professional Audio interface (correct this if I'm wrong please)
- A bunch of possible routing/ wiring configurations, including some not so useful ones for me (eg. Variax)
- On board expression pedal
- Better update cycle so far than what has been seen from Line 6 in the past.
2. AX8 usability benefits/ issues:
- Great looking tone editor on PC etc.
- Tones direct from Pro artists via their forum etc.
- Continuous free updates and improvements
- Issue 1: Will need separate audio interface (probably something like the 2i2 (Focusrite) )whch is retailing at 149 USD now.
- Issue 2: No expression pedal (possibly not so important)
- Issue 3: No onboard UI niceties (scribble strips, color LCD etc) like the Helix
However, inspite of all this - the most important factor for me - and for most guitarists I hope - should be the tone. Most demos I hear put the AX8 ahead in this department. But then you hear that the Helix with some custom IRs can sound the same as an AX8. What do I mean by tone? Less muddy distortion, attack depending on how you pick, dynamics etc etc.
Opinions still welcome...I want to buy one of these things and still can't decide. It's not possible to try both and send one back either - that will be an initial investment of 3000 USD - plus fees to send one of them back.
sharedEQ
Well-Known Member
Do you need either one right now? Are you not able to gig or produce music?
Waiting is always the best idea if you don't know for sure. Next year they will be on sale. In two years they will start showing up on ebay and the next generation of these things will be even better and cost less.
Honestly, I think real amps for live (and recording), plus VSTs for recording give the best of both worlds. If you are willing to put in the work, you can find VST sims that sound as good as the AXE or Helix.
Its a good time to wait.
Alex Kenivel
Stunt Guitar
And that's exactly what I'm doing with my Pod HD. I bought it a month before HX and AX8 were announced and kicked myself for spending the cash and not holding out for the new stuff. But I found tones I liked with what I had and bought a new guitar instead, while I wait for and watch this new generation of floor modelers "battle" (stupid right? Tools of creativity in a battle
) it out for a spot on my Pedaltrain by being a spectatorjbealsmusic
Well-Known Member
I actually have both now, so I can comment on each of these. My comments in red:
I can't speak for everyone else, but for me digital feature-driven gear purchases are rarely about getting everything I want. In most cases, it is about what things I'm willing to do without.
I still haven't decided yet, but I'm leaning towards keeping my Helix. Less amp models, sure, but the essentials are there plus a ton of other features that I actually use and appreciate (which aren't in the AX8). To be honest, I mainly picked up the AX8 to test the hype around Fractal's modeling. It sounds good, sure, but isn't knocking me off my feet with amazement or anything. It's just "different". With better cabinet models, I could probably dial in my old RP1000 to be pretty close to either Helix or the AX8 for a basic core tone.
With either unit, the tone is in there. The difference is in how well the person using it can dial it in.
*EDIT: I mostly play modern alternative/hard rock and some metal/prog. Sometimes solo stuff like Andy Timmons and Satch. Occasionally lower gain stuff like blues and funk. Despite mostly high gain stuff, I actually use gain and effects pretty sparingly (compared to others) because I like to control my dynamics with pick attack and OCD-level volume control tinkering.
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