Live performance rates - what do you charge and why?

[DoctorStoner]

Wow. I've made about $100 in my entire musical career. That is if you don't include gear purchases, transportation, or food.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

It would be really interesting to hear where you are all living. Certain areas tend to pay more and others pay less. The areas paying less tend to be inverse of what you would expect in my experience.

I live in Alaska. Making flat rates like I mentioned is relatively (last 4 years) new to me, in bands I've mostly been paid off door cover and I think for the most part that is the norm here. Average bar payout on the door is around $500 with a wide variance, but you can push that to $1-2k with a unique, well-promoted event and a higher cover. Average cover now seems to be $10, up from the $5 that was standard for many years.

Playing solo sets in gallery settings has opened up a new realm of opportunities that tend to pay a lot better. It started as a DIY thing, offering to play at First Friday shows of friends with whom I'd established a mutual appreciation of each other's art. That turned into offers from gallery spaces and has kept going from there. Averages $300 for a 2-hour set, sometimes more for more involved projects.

I also do yoga workshops, which varies but tends to average out ~$100/hr for myself and the instructor off a $20 "suggested donation." We both make more money working separately but it's not bad for a DIY gig. People love it, it's a lot of fun and a unique challenge.

Overall I still don't make a ton of money doing this, if I calculated my costs in time and equipment purchases I'm sure it's a net negative, but a few months a year I pay the rent with noise and that feels pretty cool.

 

[Lozek]

My rates vary on a few things 'Great show', 'Great Experience' & 'Great logistics'.

-Gonna put me on a luxury tourbus, take me to amazing places but play small shows with difficult circumstances? That sounds ok
- Gonna put me in a shitty van, play material that I'm not massively keen on, but have a rabid fanbase in large, well equipped venues? Sounds good
-Am I gonna travel uncomfortably, be frustrated by the lack of space and facilities at the venue and find no joy in the show? You'd better pay me extremely well.

After 30 years of playing live, I'll take staying at home with my family over doing fruitless shows that aren't ticking at least two of my boxes.

 

[Merrekof]

Im doing this for the memories, not a few dollars. My job pays well. Music is for fun. Making a few hundred bucks split a few ways to lug around a PA and play other people's music for hours sounds like a chore that's not worth it.

That's a sentiment I can get behind. But then again, you need your expenses somewhat covered, otherwise you'll be the one paying to play a gig.

At my first gigs, I got like 5 drinks that night but as a teen I was stoked to play so I didn't care that much.
I've played at gigs where the money we got was just enough to buy gas and drinks during the night.

Then there was the last band I was in, the other guys wanted to do a free gig. A 2,5hr drive to the venue, on a sunday afternoon, for free. That meant I'd be paying out of my own pocket to play a gig where very few people show up, opening for a gig during dinner time is the worst!
I may not be worth much but I have standards.
I put my foot down and decided that this was the final drop for me to leave the band. (I just got a second baby, long hours at work,.. so band life got too hard to combine)

Now that my kids are older and I have some more free time on my hands, I can totally see myself playing coverbands. Playing songs everyone knows and likes at a local venues and get paid as well sounds great to me. I no longer have the ambition to team up with other people to create new music, then record it, getting it out in the world and hope it gets some traction.

 

[Fenriswolf]

These types of threads really should be split into whether or not we're talking about originals vs. covers because it makes a HUGE difference.

There's not going to be a lot of common ground in what pay is/should be between a bar entertainment cover band playing for 4 hrs vs an original blackened snog-core band playing 30-1hr, nor should their be

Ya, like most of the live stuff I've done is more on the hired gun side of things, so for me there's a difference in doing something like a nice event where you need to learn the song kinda good at least learn enough of the lead bits to sound good to non musicians, plus dressing accordingly, vs sitting in doing rock covers in a bar where you need to sound good to drunk people.

I mean from the get go I have the option of not playing anything I don't like, so I don't charge too much depending. Something like a wedding I'm at least gonna make sure whatever clothes I have to buy and gas is covered, plus a little extra something. But I've also done bar gigs where it's generic rock covers, ya I'll do it, just cover my tab...oh you need backup vocals? Make that drink order Crown and coke instead of well whiskey and coke.

Call me a sellout, but even though I just play live as a hobby/reminder on why I hate musicians, the couple gigs I've had where you play stuff like pop music and the chicken dance and make a thousand dollars is so much better than than the "fun stuff" that doesn't really pay.

 

[GunpointMetal]

I totally get doing things for fun and not worrying about the money. Sometimes you gotta think about the other people who do this, too. If you do things for free/next to free that makes it more difficult for people trying to make a go of it. Why pay a touring band's guarantee when we can get a couple of locals for basically nothing? Why pay the excellent cover act $1200 for the night when the local dentist trio will do it for $100 and some drink tickets, it's just musical wallpaper anyways. Doing DIY gigs for low $$$ to help someone get something started is totally different than just taking any show and not asking/caring about the money because "I don't need it and I don't care".

 

[sleewell]

yea think about the local cover bands and low level touring bands who if the shoe was on the other foot dont give a fuck about you and would never do anything to help you hahaha good one. we should all be making sacrifices for people who wouldn't ever do anything for you. i love being told i shouldn't pursue a hobby that is fun so a local cover band or low level touring band can make up a reason why they aren't getting booked. everyone should just stay at home so the cover bands and tiny no name touring bands can't manufacture any reasons why local bar owners would rather hire a DJ for 200 bucks rather than pay you $1200.

lol would everyone please just think of the children???

if your music or band cant get the pay you want that is on you, stop trying to reassign the blame to anyone but yourself. it is a really bad look when you blame everyone else instead of ever looking in the mirror.

the cover bands and touring bands you're talking about dont give a shit about the people you are talking about and wouldn't do anything for them and you are asking them to make sacrifices for them... make that make sense.

the problem is that over time wages have not kept up with inflation so people don't have extra money to go out like they used in the 70s-90s. bar owners are not operating non profits. if they cant make money paying your touring band its not anyone else's fault. please dont blame this on people who just wanna have fun playing music, you are not understanding what is happening and are blaming the wrong people.

 

[GunpointMetal]

yea think about the local cover bands and low level touring bands who if the shoe was on the other foot dont give a fuck about you and would never do anything to help you hahaha good one. we should all be making sacrifices for people who wouldn't ever do anything for you. i love being told i shouldn't pursue a hobby that is fun so a local cover band or low level touring band can make up a reason why they aren't getting booked. everyone should just stay at home so the cover bands and tiny no name touring bands can't manufacture any reasons why local bar owners would rather hire a DJ for 200 bucks rather than pay you $1200.

lol would everyone please just think of the children???

if your music or band cant get the pay you want that is on you, stop trying to reassign the blame to anyone but yourself. it is a really bad look when you blame everyone else instead of ever looking in the mirror.

the cover bands and touring bands you're talking about dont give a shit about the people you are talking about and wouldn't do anything for them and you are asking them to make sacrifices for them... make that make sense.

the problem is that over time wages have not kept up with inflation so people don't have extra money to go out like they used in the 70s-90s. bar owners are not operating non profits. if they cant make money paying your touring band its not anyone else's fault. please dont blame this on people who just wanna have fun playing music, you are not understanding what is happening and are blaming the wrong people.

Venues that can't pay entertainment shouldn't have entertainment period. You do you, have as much fun as you can.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

I generally agree with Sleewell.

When I did originals cover bands weren't my competition. We weren't in the same market as each other. A bunch of blues lawyers willing to gig for $100 wasn't why I made no money, only being able to draw 20 or so people and sharing the bill with two other bands that also only drew 20 or so people is why I made no money.

Now that I'm on the cover band side those $100 lawyers still aren't my competition, because they don't have a product that can keep up. I get paid more because I can reliably pull 100-200 people into a bar. The only gigs I'm loosing to those $100 lawyers is the gigs I wouldn't take anyway.

Locally, a lot of the venues are struggling. Some of them are bringing in live bands again because DJs aren't drawing. The Tinder generation doesn't need to go to the bar to pick up, and they don't have the disposable income to get shit faced and pay for the Uber home. Alcohol sales are also in competition against legal weed.

Anyway, long story short I think bands that are in the same scene together should generally work together to improve their scene; however, I agree with Sleewell that people outside my scene don't give a shit about.

 

[sleewell]

Venues that can't pay entertainment shouldn't have entertainment period. You do you, have as much fun as you can.

obviously that's what i am doing and am going to continue to do. i have a job that pays well and i play music for the love of playing music with my friends. thats a bit different though than saying please think about the cover bands and touring bands and make sacrifices for them bc everyone knows if the situation were reversed they would not make any sacrifices for the hobbyists. it also wouldn't solve or even address the root problem that most venues can no longer afford to pay out the same amount they used to be able to.

if a venue choses to book certain acts that's 100% on them and the market will sort out deciding if they make money or not. its not up to musicians in the area to turn down shows so that hopefully the venue books and pays the artists how you want them to. if you think you can run a more profitable and better venue you should open one, you would be free to pay the bands as much as you want.


at the end of the day though its really not even about the venues or musicians. people in general have less discretionary money after years of price increases on everything without wages increasing nearly as fast. people used to have money to spend to go out to bars and have fun and venues used to be able to pay out much more. if that means you are sitting out playing shows as a result that is your call. if you decide you just like playing music that's fine too.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I totally get doing things for fun and not worrying about the money. Sometimes you gotta think about the other people who do this, too. If you do things for free/next to free that makes it more difficult for people trying to make a go of it. Why pay a touring band's guarantee when we can get a couple of locals for basically nothing? Why pay the excellent cover act $1200 for the night when the local dentist trio will do it for $100 and some drink tickets, it's just musical wallpaper anyways. Doing DIY gigs for low $$$ to help someone get something started is totally different than just taking any show and not asking/caring about the money because "I don't need it and I don't care".

If the excellent cover band is actually losing gigs to the dentist cover trio charging $100, they aren't as excellent as they think they are

Or they're trying to book shitty bars/venues which again, is a personal/business saviness problem

 

[spawnofthesith]

Also ties in a little bit to my earlier comment in this thread about the two very different realms of original vs. covers. Dropped at Birth's sick riffs aren't taking any money out of the pockets of cover bands, or even touring original hardocre bands for that matter


Regardless though, if "elite" cover bands are losing gigs to cheap/free alternatives they either aren't actually that elite to begin with or are barking up the wrong trees with the places they're trying to book. Trying to blame others just reeks of misguided self importance/entitlement imo

 

[GunpointMetal]

If ya'll were any good you'd be asking for more money, too. People who do stuff for free are worth what they ask for.

 

[spawnofthesith]

If ya'll were any good you'd be asking for more money, too. People who do stuff for free are worth what they ask for.

My band doesn't play for free typically (some exceptions, for example next month doing an unpaid fundraiser gig)


But if you believe your statement then surely you believe the other side of the coin too. If a cover band thinks they're worth a $1200 guarantee but can't get any gigs, the reality is that they aren't worth $1200. Trying to blame other musicians is a cop out

 

[sleewell]

If ya'll were any good you'd be asking for more money, too. People who do stuff for free are worth what they ask for.

this is vastly different than what you tried to say initially tho


and i would say if y'all were any good you wouldnt have made post #26 lolololol