Lowest viable notes on an 8 at 27''?

[7 Strings of Hate]

Obviously this is an issue that 10 different people might have 10 different answers on, BUT.......Basically I'm on the fence about ordering a 3rd DC800 or a DC600. I was kinda wanting to tune it to play some sixer songs in C# and C standard. Then I thought if i went with the 8, that would be pretty ....ing low as far as the lowest string is concerned.

So, what do you feel is the lowest you can go but still be usable at 27''?
I know some people tell me 27 is too short for F# even, but I'v never had any issues and am able to make it sound and feel good. I'v done dropped E, and even it was ok. To go any lower I need to beef up on my lowest string.
I'm running an .80 at F# and like the tighter tension( i know some of you use .6* at F# and its just too floppy for me) so i would need to jump up to a .85 to .95 I assume.

But ultimatly, I think i would rather have the 3rd 800 instead of the 600, but I'm just not sure.

 

[Erick Kroenen]

for me it's about tension, so using the same idea as in pianos as the pitch gets lower (the string is thicker and the tension has to increase), just for me to use an 85 for a 27" it's fine to get the F#, cheers

 

[InfinityCollision]

To match an 80 at F# tension-wise you'd need about a 105 for C#.

Is it doable? Sure. Circle K offers a .106 and La Bella offers strings around that gauge as well. Whether you're going to like the sound or not is entirely down to your ears and what you're doing with it. I wouldn't be able to get on with it personally.

 

[7 Strings of Hate]

To match an 80 at F# tension-wise you'd need about a 105 for C#.

Is it doable? Sure. Circle K offers a .106 and La Bella offers strings around that gauge as well. Whether you're going to like the sound or not is entirely down to your ears and what you're doing with it. I wouldn't be able to get on with it personally.

Well thats my Issue. I know i CAN do it. But i just figure it will sound too low. I would assume tuning to c standard would put my low f# string at D. I know Ion Dissonance recorded cursed at D# on 27'' Ibbys and it sounded great. I figure i would be right there or 1 half step lower. And I figured I would have to comprimise on tension and go with a little looser tension to achieve this. But i'm not sure i want to .... with it.

 

[simonXsludge]

I know Ion Dissonance recorded cursed at D# on 27'' Ibbys and it sounded great.

They really made it sound great. It's the lowest that I'd recommend on a 27" scale 8-string.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Well thats my Issue. I know i CAN do it. But i just figure it will sound too low. I would assume tuning to c standard would put my low f# string at D. I know Ion Dissonance recorded cursed at D# on 27'' Ibbys and it sounded great. I figure i would be right there or 1 half step lower. And I figured I would have to comprimise on tension and go with a little looser tension to achieve this. But i'm not sure i want to .... with it.

If that's a sound you like and that's more or less how you'd be playing in the lowest register then you'll probably be fine with it. There are others here that have gone even lower than C1.

 

[j3ps3]

I tune down to C# at the ending of this tune. Just some droning but hopefully it helps you to hear how it sounds

Edit: I used .85 gauge string for the F/C#. It was floppy as hell when down tuned though

 

[7 Strings of Hate]

If that's a sound you like and that's more or less how you'd be playing in the lowest register then you'll probably be fine with it. There are others here that have gone even lower than C1.

It is a sound i'm into, but I probably wont be messing with the lower register too much. I just want the lowest strings to follow suit with the other 6.

I tune down to C# at the ending of this tune. Just some droning but hopefully it helps you to hear how it sounds

Edit: I used .85 gauge string for the F/C#. It was floppy as hell when down tuned though

That sounded pretty badass man.

 

[JosephAOI]

Trent Hafdahl's RGD 8 string has a low C# with I believe was like a 90. Josh Travis thought it was too low though if that tells you anything

 

[samthebrutal]

I tuned my 800 down to C# using a Circle K 106, sounds alright, pretty muddy down there but it rumbles the floor, also, the ball winding does not fit through the body, so it sticks out about an inch or so from the body, just fyi.

 

[Unjustly-Labeled]

Well, I play my 28.6 inch agile in G#0 with a .90 string, so my idea of acceptable tension probably differs from most guys! But from a clarity perspective I succeed pretty well. Example here: https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/abandonment

My point is that clarity will never be a problem if you know what you're doing. So the only question remaining is what acceptable tension is for you. Try tuning down your current set as low as possible until it isn't playable for you. Then use a tension calculator to see what tension that is. You're probably gonna have to sacrifice some playability if you don't want to drill tuners, order custom strings, and get intonation problems/muddiness from the sheer thickness of the string required to get the tension you want at that scale.

 

[7stg]

It depends on how big a string you can fit, and if you are willing to swap out the tuner for a bass tuner, what kind of nut, what bridge, and if string through are you willing to drill a bigger hole.

circle K has a .244 for $37.50 whose unit weight is 0.011787319 so for a 27 inch scale:

note _ frequency _ tension Lbs
F#-1 _ 11.5623257097 _ 11.8920256536
G-1 _ 12.2498573744 _ 13.3483474737
G#-1 _ 12.9782717994 _ 14.9830134468
A-1 _ 13.7500000000 _ 16.8178639634
A#-1 _ 14.5676175474 _ 18.8774140325
B-1 _ 15.4338531643 _ 21.1891808217
C0 _ 16.3515978313 _ 23.7840513071
C#0 _ 17.3239144361 _ 26.6966949473
D0 _ 18.3540479948 _ 29.9660268936
D#0 _ 19.4454364826 _ 33.6357279267
E0 _ 20.6017223071 _ 37.754828065
F0 _ 21.8267644646 _ 42.3783616434
F#0 _ 23.1246514195 _ 47.5681026143
G0 _ 24.4997147489 _ 53.3933898946
G#0 _ 25.9565435987 _ 59.9320537873
A0 _ 27.5000000000 _ 67.2714558535
A#0 _ 29.1352350949 _ 75.50965613
B0 _ 30.8677063285 _ 84.7567232868
C1 _ 32.7031956626 _ 95.1362052285

 

[sevenstringj]

I'll look for something 30" or fanned with 30" at the bottom. You could then get away with an 86 on the bottom tuned to D.

 

[gnarlwinslow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaBxaPazQRA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I tune just the lowest string to C# on this song. Using a 72... Very floppy but the end turned out ultra clear.

 

[Winspear]

I haven't read the other comments here but it depends entirely on your tension preferences and tone preferences. An 80 F# at 27 is 18.5lbs. That's what I'd call normal and never suggest going under in low tunings. It's the tension that I'd say would suffice in any case.
So that said,

len 27
F1# .080 danw == 18.58#

E1 .086 ckwng == 18.16#
D1# .095 ckwng == 19.61#
C1# .106 ckwng == 19.29#

106 is CK's thickest guitar string. It would pull fine tension at C#. Then it's a case of whether it sounds to muddy for you. I know it would for me. Usually I don't like anything above 80 on 27" at all. However I recently played Rooks old Mayones 27" E1 .090 and it was great - I'm going to say that was down to the very bright and clear Lundgren Pickup.

Now there are guys that would be happy with 15lbs tension (plenty of them) - if that were the case then they'd be able to use a thinner string and it wont be as dull sounding so the threshold is going to be lower.

For me I'm going to say 27 E1 .086 is just tight enough and just clear enough on most guitars (note that the string brand being CK is a big factor for me - they sound MUCH clearer and are also tighter at the same gauge)

 

[patata]

Trent Hafdahl's RGD 8 string has a low C# with I believe was like a 90. Josh Travis thought it was too low though if that tells you anything

Travis is a pretender,he ordered a S7 9string a while ago.

 

[Xplora]

I listen to these songs dude and I think "go as low as you want, who cares about the tension" because you aren't playing guitar on that low E/D/Db/C/B (!!) ala the 9 string, in the normal sense. It's the guitar equivalent of a bass drop; great texture, would love to have it on my guitar (I want to go D or perhaps C with an 8 if I don't buy a bike instead) but it's not something you'll play a scale or a speed metal riff on so just do what you need. Worthwhile perhaps having the super low note as a drop note and tuning up for other stuff. Assuming you aren't locking it down.

 

[All_¥our_Bass]

You probably won't want to go below Eb or MAYBE D.

You'd need something in the 90-100ish range for tension, but going too big probably will make it sound too different from the rest of the strings.

It might be fine sounding different from the others if you only want it for droning or slower, 'sludgier' stuff, but if you want to play faster riffs that mix up the strings, the tone difference will become an issue.

 

[Matt_D_]

i look at it a different way.

Frequencies of Musical Notes

below about 50hz, audio reproduction gets dicy at the bet of times as you're well into sub bass territory. C1 is down at around 32hz (I actually originally thought you meant C0, and spent a good five minutes laughing).

original point still stands though. down into that sub bass register, its highly unlikely that you're hearing anything other than harmonics. if you like that sound, fine. but you're also spending a large (very large) amount of the overall "space" of the mix to get any sort of signal down below 50hz, and any sane engineer will be high passing you well above the C1 mark.

also, you must really hate your bass player. hell, you may as well just *play* a bass.

one final edit. why not tune both the 8th and the 7th string to G, or tune the 8th to G, and tune up the 7th to C and get some really nice open string dissonance going on. a bit like how placebo used to use two high E strings. instead of a high B.

 

[sepsis311]

get a super slinky 5 string bass pack on your 4 string bass, leave off the smallest string, and tune the B-E-A-D strings up a full step, plug into a metal zone or some type of guitar modeling high gain patch meant for guitar, and rock out all night long in C#. I'm not being a smart-A** I'm serious. I do it in B, just dial back the bass knob so the chords are clear.