LTD...ESP...

[Rev2010]

**Double Post - darn phone must've done it being I was in a poor reception zone**

 

[jl-austin]

LTD is NOT a separate company. To Find LTD guitars, you go to the ESP website, to get an LTD brochure you get an ESP brochure.

LTD's are ESP's, like it or not. End of discussion!

 

[Razzy]

LTD is NOT a separate company. To Find LTD guitars, you go to the ESP website, to get an LTD brochure you get an ESP brochure.

LTD's are ESP's, like it or not. End of discussion!

LTD's are not even made in the same country as their ESP counterparts.

To find Squier guitars, you go to the Fender website. That doesn't make them Fenders.

 

[jl-austin]

Actually that is not true about Squier, you have to go to "other brands" to get to the Squier models (from the Fender website).

Despite that, it is up to each company how they want to do their business model. ESP choose to use the LTD branding on their lower end guitars. That makes them LTD branded ESP's.

That would be like calling a Prestige Ibanez a Prestige and not an Ibanez. LTD's say ESP on the guitar, it would be no different saying a Prestige is NOT an Ibanez.

Are you going to say that an iPad is not an Apple product as well, because it is NOT made by Apple?

 

[Razzy]

Actually that is not true about Squier, you have to go to "other brands" to get to the Squier models (from the Fender website).

Despite that, it is up to each company how they want to do their business model. ESP choose to use the LTD branding on their lower end guitars. That makes them LTD branded ESP's.

That would be like calling a Prestige Ibanez a Prestige and not an Ibanez. LTD's say ESP on the guitar, it would be no different saying a Prestige is NOT an Ibanez.


Are you going to say that an iPad is not an Apple product as well, because it is NOT made by Apple?

What you're trying to argue is ridiculous. The Ibanez thing is like saying you can't call an ESP Custom an ESP either, because there's more in the name than the brand.

(For the record, though, I do call my Ibanezes "Ibanez Prestiges," because they cost me more money, are nicer/better sounding, and I want people to know how awesome I am.)

And this debate isn't about whether it's an ESP PRODUCT or not, they are. Just like Diet Coke is a product of Coca-cola.

If you ordered a coke at a restaurant, and they gave you a diet coke, I bet you wouldn't be happy about it. Especially if you said something about it, and they said, "Well, it's made by coke."

Fuck that. You wanted REAL COKE, not shitty Diet Coke.

And all the people who love Diet Coke would be right there screaming, "It's just as good! They're the same thing!" just like what always happens with these fucking ESP vs. Ltd. debates.

 

[Lankles]

Actually that is not true about Squier, you have to go to "other brands" to get to the Squier models (from the Fender website).

Yep, and the link takes you to a different section of the Fender website. Unlike the links to Guild/Jackson etc which redirect you to non-fender websites. Gibson make no such distinction, mixing Epiphones with Gibson USA.

The ESP website currently lists by
ESP/LTD Signature Series
ESP Standard Series
LTD Standard and Deluxe
LTD Xtone
LTD Acoustics

Even they don't call them ESPs. They don't even call them ESP LTDs.

You pretty much shot yourself in the foot anyway when you said:

That makes them LTD branded ESP's.

Because it is the brand we are talking about, not the parent company. If Apple had a subsidiary brand called Applecore making the same kind of products, and the Applecore logo had taken the place of the Apple logo it would be an Applecore iPod. Even if Apple had put their logo off to the side somewhere ... say the back of the headstock.

 

[Kamikaze7]

I really don't feel like reading through all four of these pages to see what's going on, but if your calling your LTD an ESP to feel special, you really shouldn't, because you're not. Not for having an LTD anyways.
No one calls an Epiphone a Gibson and no one calls a Squire a Fender. Cut it out, it's annoying, you make searching for a real ESP difficult, you diminish the meaning of having a real ESP and you look like a noob ass.
Neg rep me all you want, it's not going to turn your LTD into an ESP

Right dude?? Have fun on ebay searching for esp haha. It's the worst, dude.
Sooooo annoying

Okay.. This just proves that you still can't tell the difference between an LTD and an ESP even by looking at a picture. And nobody ever said that calling an LTD was going to magically make it an ESP either...

Sounds like someone is still a bit sore about having an LTD instead of an ESP.

I think this is a ridiculous thread. Lamborghini is owned by VW. If I own a Golf (and I do) I can certainly put Lamborghini branding all over it (but I don't). It's my option. But it's a bit ridiculous to say that since it's the same company they're the same thing.

Modifying a guitar yourself to match specific specs is not the same as buying a high end guitar simply because it's not the guitar maker who made it, therefore you shouldn't use THEIR name. I'm not saying quality, tone, playability, whatever wise will not be as good or even better but you still have no right to pretend its their work.

It's like kids who gets an exhaust and new headers about put "Type R" on their shitty Civic. Come on guys..

But, I'll repeat, it's not bad if you fix it up how you like it. If you know what you're doing it's really not that hard to make it much better than the stock model simply because most stock models are generalized and mass produced. But put YOUR logo on it, don't pretend its theirs.

Come on, how can this even be a real discussion?

^ yesssss

I again agree that having an LTD and modifying it is NOT the same as having an actual ESP or an ESP Custom Shop... With this being said, if ESP made the ones I have modded as an actual model then I'd buy it as a real ESP. But since they don't and the ONLY way to get it would be MORE than $5K per guitar, I'll be perfectly content with my LTD's. And again, it's still an ESP no matter how you look at it... See additional comments below...

Saw this thread and HAD to post. An LTD is NOT an ESP. I'm sure in 4 pages someone as expressed this sentiment. If you believe it is, you're only kidding yourself. LTD is a budget brand. Manufacturers make these budget brands to spark interest in the minds of those of us with a budget. They do this with hopes of when we do come across or save enough money, that we show a bit of "brand loyalty" and step up the ladder so to speak. LTD's are not bad guitars. I have an H-307, I love it. Would I take a STEF-7 over it...DUH! No contest. With budget guitars, you sacrifice things, quality of wood, quality of electronics, consitency in products. When I say consistency I mean that one LTD can be GOLDEN, but the one that was on the line right after it could be the worst guitar ever made. I'm a huge advocate of budget guitars and buying used, but if someone labeled their LTD an ESP and I bought it, I would kill someone. If someone REBRANDED their LTD to ESP, I can't even think of what I'd do. Probably something along the lines of Gerard Butler circa Law Abiding Citizen.

Sorry for the double post, consider this a PS.

If your justification for calling an LTD an ESP is "they're made by the same company, they're basically the same guitar," then what's your problem with calling it an LTD? Why not buy an ESP adn call it an LTD?

Because if ESP made the ones I have in an actual ESP model, then I'd buy them as an actual ESP... But since they don't and they have very different features and specs from the actual models, you can't and won't get it unless it's from the Custom Shop... do YOU have more than $5K to spend on EACH guitar in your collection??? I doubt it... And obviously an LTD is NOT the same guitar as an actual ESP, anybody with hint of common sense knows that... And what's wrong with finding the ones that ARE golden to keep and modify??? That's what I did with mine...

See additional comments below...

LTD is NOT a separate company. To Find LTD guitars, you go to the ESP website, to get an LTD brochure you get an ESP brochure.

LTD's are ESP's, like it or not. End of discussion!

THANK YOU!!!

For all those that are still making this a playground pissing contest, please re-read my initial post on page 3 of this thread, post #57...

In addition, these next comments are from another member and myself from the ESP forum, in the same exact pissing contest there - Page 82, Reply # 1631. I conclude that between the two posts mentioned above, I rest my case about this issue...

The replies between the quotes are my reply...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~NT~
LTD is cheaper and better than ESP!

Cheaper, yes. Better, not always the case...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cklapka
I'm not arguing the point of whether someone should put an ESP sticker on the headstock of there LTD or not, I'm just entering my comments of the what I have seen of this conversation.

I think people are confusing the level of instrument with the company that makes it. ESP makes several lines of products, ESP, LTD, and X-tone. They are all made by ESP that doesn't make them equal to each other but they are technically ESPs and ESP stamps their logo on every LTD for this reason.

Someone tried to compare ESP and their LTD line with that of Gibson and Epiphone or Fender and Squire, I think this is an incorrect comparison, those are different subsidiaries of a company where as ESP and LTDs are different lines within the same company. I think Schecter would be a closer match for this comparison than that of LTD.

Remember guitars are pieces of wood and that wood doesn't know whether the was CNCed or handcrafted. I'm not talking about the attention to detail or quality of craftsmanship just the resonance of wood in general. GreenKamikaze7 didn't say any M107 can become a great guitar(for his needs) he had to look and test each of what he has now out to determine if they were worthy of modification. Which makes sense to any objective individual.

As for the look of any guitar that is subjective but remarks that like "they look like shit" or "ESP decals on an LTD guitar is stupid as fuck and looks gay" are childish and only serve to dilute the thread with unnecessary and inappropriate banter, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cklapka
LTD and ESP are not different brands. They are different product lines for the same brand. That is why there is a difference and where the comparison does not fall into step. No one would argue that the genesis for the LTD, Squire and Epiphone instruments was the same, which was the need meet a different price point. Its how the companies chose the implement there respective business objectives.

Where as Gibson and Fender choose to distance themselves from there lower product offerings, ESP chooses to capitalize on the ESP name. If you want an LTD you go to the ESP website or look and the ESP catalog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cklapka
I guess its just perceptive.

I was going by a different definition similar to that of cars.
Parent: GM
Brand -> Buick
Brand -> Chevy
Brand -> Caddy

Parent: Gibson
Brand->Gibson
Brand ->Epiphone

The subsidiary company being the brand.

Where as, since LTD is not a subsidiary it would be more like:
Parent: ESP
Brand-> ESP
product->ESP
product->LTD

Similar to:
Brand ->Chevy
Product-> Corvette
Product-> Cruze

No one would think a Cruze is a Corvette but they are but Chevy's and GM's...



I think the best thing the mods could do is close and lock up this thread, because this will always go on and people will always argue this... And if you can't distinguish an ESP from an LTD then maybe you should brush up on which is which before you get all pissed off about it... Anyone who knows the ESP OR the LTD product lines well enough will know which is which - regardless of an ESP decal on the headstock or not...

 

[sell2792]

ESP makes LTDs. Shut the fuck up. This arguement is asinine.

 

[somniumaeternum]

I think the best thing the mods could do is close and lock up this thread, because this will always go on and people will always argue this... And if you can't distinguish an ESP from an LTD then maybe you should brush up on which is which before you get all pissed off about it... Anyone who knows the ESP OR the LTD product lines well enough will know which is which - regardless of an ESP decal on the headstock or not...

Not to put words in anyones mouth but to me it sounds like you're just saying "blah blah blah not listening to you blah blah blah". If you mod a guitar yourself it's not ESPs work so it's not an ESP. Simple as that. Even if it's the same exact specs, parts, whatever.

LTD is different than the ESP level guitars simply because ESP decided to brand them differently and give them different specs / quality / whtaver. It's dishonest to call one the other (not even getting into one being better or not.. the company decided they're separate).

But let's approach it from a different angle (something I'm more curious):

It may sounds stupid (and in some ways it conceptually is) but if I make an exact replica of an ESP - and I mean down to the .000001 of a millimeter difference - it will never be an ESP. Because I'm not employed by them to work under their brand. But that's fine because who gives a shit if it's an ESP or not? Because really it comes down to this: Why do you care so much to call them ESPs? Do you think people will down on you if you have "only" an LTD? You obviously spend a lot of time to defend your opinion on here.. it shows that you're emotionally invested in the "verdict". But again, who gives a shit what it's called? Shouldn't you be proud you did all the mods yourself and not ESP? Why give them the credit?

(And this isn't mean to flame or bait anything.. just don't understand it really.)

 

[steve1]

its all just clever marketing.

Kid wants a LTD, buys a LTD, profit for ESP
Kid wants an ESP, can't afford it, buys a LTD, profit for ESP
Kid wants a ESP, gets a LTD, still aspires to get an ESP, eventually gets an ESP, profit for ESP
Kid wants an ESP, buys an ESP, profit for ESP
Kid is a guitar snob, a LTD would suit his needs but he wants that ESP name, buys ESP, profit for ESP

the divide in the brand caters for the lower budget, the higher budget, creates aspiration to get the higher end, and creates a snobbery among some people so that they only pay out for the "real" esp name.

 

[Lankles]

And again, it's still an ESP no matter how you look at it... See additional comments below...

And obviously an LTD is NOT the same guitar as an actual ESP, anybody with hint of common sense knows that...
See additional comments below...

... And if you can't distinguish an ESP from an LTD then maybe you should brush up on which is which before you get all pissed off about it... Anyone who knows the ESP OR the LTD product lines well enough will know which is which - regardless of an ESP decal on the headstock or not...

 

[PyramidSmasher]

Why do people always feel necessary when they are posting gear in FS threads and NGDs to say they got an ESP when really they got an LTD. This has always been an annoyance of me, anyone else feel the same?!?

No not really, I generally dont get pissed about this kind of stuff because I A) Am not an asshole and B) Have better things to think about.

Dont you guys hate when people have facial tissue that isn't made by "Kleenex" but they refer to it as Kleenex? Me neither.

 

[somniumaeternum]

lol now I got dinged?

We all know the differences between the LTD's and the ESP's. And we also all know that whether it's cars guitars or anything else - stock sucks! If some of us HAD the $5K or more to spend on a Custom Shop guitar, we would and wouldn't be arguing this

I guess I must be bashing people without money with my comments of not stealing brands.. ?!? .. I guess you can't escape people with idiotic and juvenile mindsets of "the bad man said something I didn't like so I'll make him pay"..

 

[Kamikaze7]

- ...If you mod a guitar yourself it's not ESPs work so it's not an ESP.

- ...Shouldn't you be proud you did all the mods yourself and not ESP? Why give them the credit?

-... Why do you care so much to call them ESPs? Do you think people will down on you if you have "only" an LTD?

- Maybe the mod work isn't that of ESP's, but the base of the guitar itself is... And what's wrong with modifying a stock model to make it better? How many people on this site do that on a daily basis???

-Yes, I am thrilled of the mod work I've done and had done to my guitars. I'm in no way giving credit to ESP for the mods that were done. And besides, anybody who knows the guitars will know the difference between a bone factory stock one, and a modified one like mine. They will also obviously know that the mod work wasn't done by ESP and it was done afterwards...

-Why care so much to call them an ESP? Because it IS an ESP, even if it was made by machine, with cheaper woods, parts and electronics or whatever. And some have tried to down me for trying to have an ESP from an LTD. But since I can't get these specific models from ESP with the original specs (Floyd Rose trems, Duncan pickups, ect...) from an actual ESP because they are only offered in a 6-string. And even if I did wind up with an actual ESP, I'd only be swapping pickups and stuff anyway. Everyone that knows me and knows what my guitars are all view this issue the same way I do - they all consider the LTD's an ESP because that is who made them. Now when I hit the lottery and can afford to spend more than $5K on each guitar then I'll have each one re-built by ESP's Custom Shop and hang the mod'ed LTD's on the wall to retire. Until then I'm using and playing them like everyone else -famous, signed or otherwise - does and will.

 

[Kamikaze7]

lol now I got dinged?

We all know the differences between the LTD's and the ESP's. And we also all know that whether it's cars guitars or anything else - stock sucks! If some of us HAD the $5K or more to spend on a Custom Shop guitar, we would and wouldn't be arguing this

I guess I must be bashing people without money with my comments of not stealing brands.. ?!? .. I guess you can't escape people with idiotic and juvenile mindsets of "the bad man said something I didn't like so I'll make him pay"..

And no it's not nowhere near being idiotic or juvenile... But like I've told everyone else that has this argument, you don't need to be a douchebag about it. We all can't afford the real deal, so why be a dick about it to those who make the best of lesser animals and make what they want from it??? It's people like you who try and belittle and down me for having LTD's... I make my stand for what I believe whether some like it or not, but I'm not a dick about it like others seem to be...

 

[doofman16arr]

ITT guitar snobs trying to get their moneys' worth for their overpriced guitars.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

If there's anything this thread has proved it's that LTD owners care WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY too much about what people on the internet think.