Metric Halo ULN-8s?

[taysil11]

Anyone use them?

I had experience using them in the music program at my school, but i feel they could be overkill with home recording. My issue is its quality (good) and expense versus buying several analog-based hardware units.

I'm graduating from school soon and plan to start working on a music station with my hard earned $.

Any amateur producers out there with advice?




In case you aren't familiar with them...

<http://mhsecure.com/metric_halo/products/hardware/uln-8.html>

 

[ShadowAMD]

Anyone use them?

I had experience using them in the music program at my school, but i feel they could be overkill with home recording. My issue is its quality (good) and expense versus buying several analog-based hardware units.

I'm graduating from school soon and plan to start working on a music station with my hard earned $.

Any amateur producers out there with advice?




In case you aren't familiar with them...

<http://mhsecure.com/metric_halo/products/hardware/uln-8.html>

They are designed in mind for a professional studio.. I have one and it is a fantastic interface sound quality is amazing as you know / expect.

Interfaces of lower prices in my opinion are a little hit and miss, I think I've been through MOTU, ECHO, AVID, APOGEE, ROLAND, RME and some others I can't remember right now. Some of them are excellent, some of them aren't whether they skimped on the AD / DA and / or Analogue front end..

It comes down to this, what can you afford? What is going to make the biggest difference? If you have cheap mic's, untreated room, crap monitors, bad plugs etc. etc. Your money will be better spent in other places.

Also look at a LIO, they cost less and on PAR with less flexibility..

 

[taysil11]

They are designed in mind for a professional studio.. I have one and it is a fantastic interface sound quality is amazing as you know / expect.

Interfaces of lower prices in my opinion are a little hit and miss, I think I've been through MOTU, ECHO, AVID, APOGEE, ROLAND, RME and some others I can't remember right now. Some of them are excellent, some of them aren't whether they skimped on the AD / DA and / or Analogue front end..

It comes down to this, what can you afford? What is going to make the biggest difference? If you have cheap mic's, untreated room, crap monitors, bad plugs etc. etc. Your money will be better spent in other places.

Also look at a LIO, they cost less and on PAR with less flexibility..

Thanks! I'll have to check those out. I'm basically planning a long-term investment, so its going to involve saving for a few (tons ) of paychecks. I was thinking of going with the AxeFX Ultra with a Pod XT, and then use Toontrack as far as drums go. I'm an amateur artist and I'm wondering how much investment will affect what I'm trying to achieve, which is good-sounding tracks to promote my band.

I don't have an ideal drum room, or recording environment, and better microphones would be yet another cost, so I think I'm leaning towards the latter?

 

[ShadowAMD]

Thanks! I'll have to check those out. I'm basically planning a long-term investment, so its going to involve saving for a few (tons ) of paychecks. I was thinking of going with the AxeFX Ultra with a Pod XT, and then use Toontrack as far as drums go. I'm an amateur artist and I'm wondering how much investment will affect what I'm trying to achieve, which is good-sounding tracks to promote my band.

I don't have an ideal drum room, or recording environment, and better microphones would be yet another cost, so I think I'm leaning towards the latter?

I'm eventually going to write down what I have really found over the last sort of 5 / 10 years (the 5 years before that I was just getting to initial grips) and a section on gear. (This all based on my experience) It's not the price, it's the quality...

I'm a fair bit like you which wants the best so I don't have to worry about it being in the way.. There really is a big difference than it seems, e.g. I have an MOTU 828 MK2 and it's a hollow sounding interface.

First thing's first, control room / mixing room:

Need some decent monitors and room treatment, I spent years trying to mix in an untreated room.. Just wasn't worth it in the end.. On the interface side with Mac you have some damn good choices, the Apogee Ensemble, Metric halo / Lio are all excellent choices and won't get in your way.. Plenty of flexible I/O to do whatever you need..

Mics:

They don't need to be expensive, SM58 / 57 works for a fair range of cabs and vocals.. Shure's are workhorse's, if you can find one decent condenser with an SM57 / 58 you are pretty much set.

Drums:

As you said, can't afford a tracking room? Superior gets the job done.. Through various tweaking, you can make it sound less Toontrack and more like drums..

Compressors / effects:

ITB, there are various great plugins that do an excellent job.. Waves / UAD.. Take your pick, Waves CLA comp's are great.. I do find myself using Waves CLA sig bass a lot.. It's amazing what it does to a bass. I noticed slate VCC can be an amazing blessing or a curse dependant on how you use it.. That goes for FGX too..


So let's say:

$500 - $750 in room treatment
$2000.00 Apogee ensemble?
$800.00 UAD effects? / Waves plugs
$1200.00 Adam A7x's?
$500.00 Sennheiser HD650's..
$700.00 for a decent mic setup?
$175.00 Superior drummer.

So around $6.5K?

There is nothing in that setup that would stop you from doing world class mixes.. It would probably take you a couple of years just to really know what to do with it all and how to get the best out of it..

 

[taysil11]

I'm eventually going to write down what I have really found over the last sort of 5 / 10 years (the 5 years before that I was just getting to initial grips) and a section on gear. (This all based on my experience) It's not the price, it's the quality...

I'm a fair bit like you which wants the best so I don't have to worry about it being in the way.. There really is a big difference than it seems, e.g. I have an MOTU 828 MK2 and it's a hollow sounding interface.

First thing's first, control room / mixing room:

Need some decent monitors and room treatment, I spent years trying to mix in an untreated room.. Just wasn't worth it in the end.. On the interface side with Mac you have some damn good choices, the Apogee Ensemble, Metric halo / Lio are all excellent choices and won't get in your way.. Plenty of flexible I/O to do whatever you need..

Mics:

They don't need to be expensive, SM58 / 57 works for a fair range of cabs and vocals.. Shure's are workhorse's, if you can find one decent condenser with an SM57 / 58 you are pretty much set.

Drums:

As you said, can't afford a tracking room? Superior gets the job done.. Through various tweaking, you can make it sound less Toontrack and more like drums..

Compressors / effects:

ITB, there are various great plugins that do an excellent job.. Waves / UAD.. Take your pick, Waves CLA comp's are great.. I do find myself using Waves CLA sig bass a lot.. It's amazing what it does to a bass. I noticed slate VCC can be an amazing blessing or a curse dependant on how you use it.. That goes for FGX too..


So let's say:

$500 - $750 in room treatment
$2000.00 Apogee ensemble?
$800.00 UAD effects? / Waves plugs
$1200.00 Adam A7x's?
$500.00 Sennheiser HD650's..
$700.00 for a decent mic setup?
$175.00 Superior drummer.

So around $6.5K?

There is nothing in that setup that would stop you from doing world class mixes.. It would probably take you a couple of years just to really know what to do with it all and how to get the best out of it..

I definitely appreciate the gear suggestions. That all sounds about right, and I think it might make sense to stray away from the ULN-8s because A) I'm still learning and B) It looks like I can get a little bit cheaper. As far as the Apogee Ensemble goes... I see this is a Mic pre-amp as well. Can you link two to have 8 mic inputs? I figure this would probably be necessary for tracking drums, (especially the technical metal style I usually work with) but I suppose it could be a Led-Zepplin-esque snare, kick, and two overheads, which might be better for someone learning. I have some experience, know my ins and outs, but am in great need of the ability to keep exploring and working as far as mixing goes.

The hardest part about all of this is that I don't want to be frivilous. Don't get me wrong, I understand that I have an incredible amount to learn, and I understand that gear is not going to change that. But at the same time I would like to be sure that equipment is not holding me back. I would like to balance out that fact with this coming investment.

Would love to hear more about gear if you post it.

 

[ShadowAMD]

I definitely appreciate the gear suggestions. That all sounds about right, and I think it might make sense to stray away from the ULN-8s because A) I'm still learning and B) It looks like I can get a little bit cheaper. As far as the Apogee Ensemble goes... I see this is a Mic pre-amp as well. Can you link two to have 8 mic inputs? I figure this would probably be necessary for tracking drums, (especially the technical metal style I usually work with) but I suppose it could be a Led-Zepplin-esque snare, kick, and two overheads, which might be better for someone learning. I have some experience, know my ins and outs, but am in great need of the ability to keep exploring and working as far as mixing goes.

The hardest part about all of this is that I don't want to be frivilous. Don't get me wrong, I understand that I have an incredible amount to learn, and I understand that gear is not going to change that. But at the same time I would like to be sure that equipment is not holding me back. I would like to balance out that fact with this coming investment.

Would love to hear more about gear if you post it.

Well it's a learning curve for us all..

About 10 years ago, I had a crack at doing a proper demo. (It turned out awful) this was with an MBOX and an SM58 with a Laney amp, I absolutely butchered the mix. So I returned back to it around a year ago to see what I did wrong, the actual un-processed stems were very usable although at the time (10 years ago) I didn't understand compression and EQ so once I had finished re-mixing it.. The song sounded better than some of my more recent productions on better gear.. The reason is, from everyone telling me I should use a condenser mic in an untreated boxy room from after using the 58. (Fully treated rooms about 7 years ago, made a big difference).

The quality of recordings suffered greatly. So other factors come into play, something like an SM7B or a 58 can be a real life saver.. It's having and understanding what you need to finish the job, you'd be surprised what some experienced engineers can do with an MBOX? So in essence, the gear listed above has been used for professional / commercially mixed and recorded tracks. So if it doesn't go the right way for a couple of years, don't write off the gear. (Like I did, it ended up costing me a lot of money)..

One of the best interfaces I used was an avid MBOX 3 although at the time I never realised it.. I also had a lot of success with an Apogee Duet I think there around the same league as each other..

Although that being said, the apogee stuff just does the job and well.. There is no feeling that the AD / DA adds much or lacks anything. They are just nice pieces of kit, with the price difference between the ULN-8 and the Apogee ensemble whilst the ULN-8 is a better piece of kit it is a little unjustified..

The problem with gear is A) does it sound good? Learning to understand how it affects the final product.. B) Is it cost effective? Let's say one outboard rack cost's you 10K? What actually is the difference between that and a bunch of ITB plugs? There are purists on both sides, but for convenience sake ITB for me is the way to go.. you can easily spend $250K on a studio which is fine, but is it what you need? Let's say an outboard LA610-MK2 is great for warm fatter vocals, it's less clear than many other pre / comp chains.. Is that what you are going for?...

When you get an idea of what direction you are heading in? E.g. super shiny well produced metal like I'm going for, e.g. lamb of god style production. Then I can better inform you of what tools you need to accomplish it..

 

[taysil11]

Well it's a learning curve for us all..

About 10 years ago, I had a crack at doing a proper demo. (It turned out awful) this was with an MBOX and an SM58 with a Laney amp, I absolutely butchered the mix. So I returned back to it around a year ago to see what I did wrong, the actual un-processed stems were very usable although at the time (10 years ago) I didn't understand compression and EQ so once I had finished re-mixing it.. The song sounded better than some of my more recent productions on better gear.. The reason is, from everyone telling me I should use a condenser mic in an untreated boxy room from after using the 58. (Fully treated rooms about 7 years ago, made a big difference).

The quality of recordings suffered greatly. So other factors come into play, something like an SM7B or a 58 can be a real life saver.. It's having and understanding what you need to finish the job, you'd be surprised what some experienced engineers can do with an MBOX? So in essence, the gear listed above has been used for professional / commercially mixed and recorded tracks. So if it doesn't go the right way for a couple of years, don't write off the gear. (Like I did, it ended up costing me a lot of money)..

One of the best interfaces I used was an avid MBOX 3 although at the time I never realised it.. I also had a lot of success with an Apogee Duet I think there around the same league as each other..

Although that being said, the apogee stuff just does the job and well.. There is no feeling that the AD / DA adds much or lacks anything. They are just nice pieces of kit, with the price difference between the ULN-8 and the Apogee ensemble whilst the ULN-8 is a better piece of kit it is a little unjustified..

The problem with gear is A) does it sound good? Learning to understand how it affects the final product.. B) Is it cost effective? Let's say one outboard rack cost's you 10K? What actually is the difference between that and a bunch of ITB plugs? There are purists on both sides, but for convenience sake ITB for me is the way to go.. you can easily spend $250K on a studio which is fine, but is it what you need? Let's say an outboard LA610-MK2 is great for warm fatter vocals, it's less clear than many other pre / comp chains.. Is that what you are going for?...

When you get an idea of what direction you are heading in? E.g. super shiny well produced metal like I'm going for, e.g. lamb of god style production. Then I can better inform you of what tools you need to accomplish it..

You're right about asking the question of what I really need - again, being frivilous would be a bad thing, and I think also detrimental to learning in some ways. I've used some extremely nice equipment in the studio at my school but my mixing did not come out as I wish partly because of the actual recording process, but also I'm sure the mixing as well.

Soundcloud for Ghost Town's sounds on SoundCloud - Hear the world << The Vernus EP is what I mixed.

I don't think its bad for a first try. I think the clean, well produced metal is definitely what I'm going for. I'd love to hear some stuff you've mixed down if you have any.

What is most important that is finding a versatile setup that can be adapted to many uses (bass, drums, guitar, acoustic, vocals) that is capable good quality, but at a rate that would be expected from an experienced beginner to professional audio work.

 

[ShadowAMD]

You're right about asking the question of what I really need - again, being frivilous would be a bad thing, and I think also detrimental to learning in some ways. I've used some extremely nice equipment in the studio at my school but my mixing did not come out as I wish partly because of the actual recording process, but also I'm sure the mixing as well.

Soundcloud for Ghost Town's sounds on SoundCloud - Hear the world << The Vernus EP is what I mixed.

I don't think its bad for a first try. I think the clean, well produced metal is definitely what I'm going for. I'd love to hear some stuff you've mixed down if you have any.

What is most important that is finding a versatile setup that can be adapted to many uses (bass, drums, guitar, acoustic, vocals) that is capable good quality, but at a rate that would be expected from an experienced beginner to professional audio work.

I think the point is, what can you afford vs. what quality do you need?.. If we were to have an all in one system like they had at my college (SSL 4k), as opposed to what I tried or am using e.g. (API / Trident / Neve) desks, they all have there sonic signatures which are cool.. But then there is a price to pay for that, you won't suffer with a desk of that calibre, but damn they are expensive and the upkeep is ridiculous.

So looking at a decent interface setup with OTB (The hybrid route)? E.g. Metric halo Lio? with a distressor / LA2A / API2500 / API Pres etc. (I'm a fan of API if you can't tell).. Which won't cost the same as a desk, but it will still bump you to 20K with mic's (Sticking to the well known true and tested like Shure, Neumann, Akg C414's) etc.? Although it's a sure fire way to get a good sounding setup. (Also it damn well will be you if you can't get a good mix out of this.) But is it overkill just for one band? It's cool if you plan to earn some money out of it.

Or finally, do you go with an inexpensive ITB setup? This in my eyes can be minefield zone, where you have giant killers and then just sonic pieces of shit. LOL!.. But even with this setup there are tried and tested method's that point to the fleshy thing behind the wheel being the point of failure. Generally it cost's more for tried and tested, although you never have to worry about the equipment being the issue.

I listened to the mix and it sounds like the stuff I did in college

I did this one in let's say 10 minutes? It's a quick recording to see if I liked the sound of a pod mixed with an Engl.. I didn't see the point in spending time on it ..(Guitars need re-recording and the cymbals sound weird? (Needed a decent verb).

But I think I did it through the MH? https://soundcloud.com/theshadowkind/pod-e-quick-mix

I'll send you a fully mixed track I did on an Mbox 3 when I can find it, it's commercial release with properties for promotion on my behalf..

 

[taysil11]

I think the point is, what can you afford vs. what quality do you need?.. If we were to have an all in one system like they had at my college (SSL 4k), as opposed to what I tried or am using e.g. (API / Trident / Neve) desks, they all have there sonic signatures which are cool.. But then there is a price to pay for that, you won't suffer with a desk of that calibre, but damn they are expensive and the upkeep is ridiculous.

So looking at a decent interface setup with OTB (The hybrid route)? E.g. Metric halo Lio? with a distressor / LA2A / API2500 / API Pres etc. (I'm a fan of API if you can't tell).. Which won't cost the same as a desk, but it will still bump you to 20K with mic's (Sticking to the well known true and tested like Shure, Neumann, Akg C414's) etc.? Although it's a sure fire way to get a good sounding setup. (Also it damn well will be you if you can't get a good mix out of this.) But is it overkill just for one band? It's cool if you plan to earn some money out of it.

Or finally, do you go with an inexpensive ITB setup? This in my eyes can be minefield zone, where you have giant killers and then just sonic pieces of shit. LOL!.. But even with this setup there are tried and tested method's that point to the fleshy thing behind the wheel being the point of failure. Generally it cost's more for tried and tested, although you never have to worry about the equipment being the issue.

I listened to the mix and it sounds like the stuff I did in college

I did this one in let's say 10 minutes? It's a quick recording to see if I liked the sound of a pod mixed with an Engl.. I didn't see the point in spending time on it ..(Guitars need re-recording and the cymbals sound weird? (Needed a decent verb).

But I think I did it through the MH? https://soundcloud.com/theshadowkind/pod-e-quick-mix

I'll send you a fully mixed track I did on an Mbox 3 when I can find it, it's commercial release with properties for promotion on my behalf..

Yeah.. upkeep sounds absolutely terrible. If you wouldn't mind explaining...

ITB=?
OTB=?

I know these have to do with digital versus out of the pre-amp effects. I usually like to have the freedom to use my live setup in recording. I know there are changes that must be involved to affect the recording process in a positive manner. But if it makes a difference, I think I will be saving for an Axe-FX before I buy a Preamp, DAW, and A/D D/A converter. The most important thing for me is something versatile.

Because of this, I think I'll go with something that is more of a hybrid. I like to use pedal effects if they sound better, but most of my digital effect processing will be done in the Axe-FX or Logic (delay, reverb and such).

A decent space will unfortunately not be an option for the time being. I'll be a recent grad and will be in an apartment, so there's minimal modifications i can do to the space. Another reason to stray into the digital world i think... Drum rooms will have to be pretty makeshift! For my own recordings however, I think I will use Toontrack or EZ drummer for drum tracks. That's what I'm leaning towards anyways.