More crazy christians pissing me off....(rant warning)

[synrgy]

We're all fucked, anyway.

If I've learned anything from South Park, it's that Christian God is a Buddhist, and people can only gain entrance to Heaven if they're Mormon.

 

[Flax6177]

1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35
34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 corinthians from which you quote is a letter to the church in corith by the apostle Paul. These above verses is NOT a point the author Paul is making but he is QUOTING a commonly held Jewish belief at the time that women should not speak at church. his repsonse is in the following verses which are

1 Corinthians 14:36
36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.[i] 39Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Paul's response is that of equality of women and men alike in discipleship. Only when you take one or two of these verses alone can you bend and manipulate the scipture to make it say something "ignorant". Paul also clears up this issue in 1 corinthians 12 before the matter by saying when he refers to man it is not to man but to MANKIND refering to both men and women.

Ephesians 5:22 - 24
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

The above are classic one liners used by people to make the bible look very hateful. here is the breakdown. These verses have a counterpart that MUST be taken into account with the above. here they are:

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[c] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

The above is a task for men on how to love their wives...very different from the "hateful" one liners given by the previous quoter.

Leviticus 11:9-12:
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

The above are olf Jewish customs that do not apply to christians. the old testament is included in christian scripture because: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work
(2 Timothy 3:16-17).​

In the times the old testament was written the verses in leviticus was very good advice because the cleaning methods we have today were not available or readily available--making these kinds of food dangerous to eat.

(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB) When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

(Ephesians 6:5 NLT) Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

Once again this is old Jewish law that does not apply to christians. Christianity often gets a bad rep for these verses because at the time of the new testament Jesus and his disciples were not looking to destroy the establishment but to reconcile the establishment with God. Jesus and his disciples took the laws and customs of the Jewish and gentile (unbelievers--not Jews) people at face value. Just as that society had slaves and ours does not--it is a reflection of the society and customs of the time-not the Chrsitian religion.



I would really appreciate it if you and others on this forum would refrain from quoting things that you have absolutely no understanding of and who have a hateful agenda to spread your beliefs on others. I and other christians have just as much right as you to believe whatever religion we choose. and i apologize on behalf of other christians who have tried to spread their beliefs onto you, christians are not super human we are just human--people who make mistakes just like you.

 

[hairychris]

Well, the very fact that this book can be interpreted in any way that the reader likes kind of rules any sort of divine inspiration out of the question IMO.

That and the fact that Jesus, assuming that he existed, was the leader of a Jewish doomsday cult - well, if you read the 'he will not taste death before the kingdom of heaven arrives' or whatever literally*. The whole converting the gentiles business was Paul's idea... and, AFAIK, the law of the OT was never specifically repealed by Jesus (he would have lived by those same laws). That can be seen as a political move by Paul & the actual founders of the religion.

Well, any religion that purports to worship the genocidal wanker that the Jewish god of the Old Testament can fuck right off - Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Anyone who's actually read the OT should come to that conclusion... Even if he/it did exist the reason you'd worship him/it is because he'd fuck you up (kill you in the OT, burn you for eternity in the NT) if you didn't.

Love and eternal torment. Great bedfellows aren't they? And, if you notice, the punishment gets worse in the NT which supposedly shows us god's love. I mean, as opposed to getting OT on us all he demanded was sacrifice of his son/himself/whatever. Don't get me started on how that whole story makes no sense...



* Doesn't that sound a bit like Jim Jones or David Koresh? Just saying.

NOTE: Not that I'm saying that you don't have the right to believe this. You have every right. Thing is that I find it personally offensive (which. as freely speaking you are entitled to do) that, by implication, you think that I deserve to spend eternity writhing in pain because I think that your god is nonsense - and I mean nonsense in the literal sense of the word, 'god' cannot exist in a form that is in any way sensible to humanity if he/it is as described in the bible. Hence I will react in a way that I see fit. If you don't want to be tarred by the same brush as either 1) repugnant actions/implications in your holy book or 2) moronic actions by alleged co-believers then, yeah, distance yourself from them. At that point, though, are your beliefs still consistant? Are you still living by your book? And what are we to call you?

Psalm 137:
8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

 

[Brendan G]

The above are olf Jewish customs that do not apply to christians. the old testament is included in christian scripture because: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work
(2 Timothy 3:16-17).​

In the times the old testament was written the verses in leviticus was very good advice because the cleaning methods we have today were not available or readily available--making these kinds of food dangerous to eat.

Once again this is old Jewish law that does not apply to christians. Christianity often gets a bad rep for these verses because at the time of the new testament Jesus and his disciples were not looking to destroy the establishment but to reconcile the establishment with God. Jesus and his disciples took the laws and customs of the Jewish and gentile (unbelievers--not Jews) people at face value. Just as that society had slaves and ours does not--it is a reflection of the society and customs of the time-not the Chrsitian religion.

Oh my turn! Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them."

 

[Setnakt]

Some of that language regarding women still seems a bit condescending to me, and I seem to recall the story of Adam and Eve being resolved in a somewhat sexist way. Apart from the fact that it's not particularly complimentary to say we were made out of dirt in the first place, men are not missing a rib, and it still says that women should be subservient unto man for Eve's behavior. At least, that's how they teach it in Sunday school.

"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

And they all lived happily ever after. Wait...

Bear in mind that Leviticus is absolutely full of commandments to burn animals on an altar to make "a pleasing smell unto the Lord."

(Judges 21:10-24 NLT) So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."

Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

Loopholes in your commandments with god made possible by rape. Jesus approves!

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Moses the Warlord, using arbitrary social authority by suggestion of divine inspiration to commit genocide and mass rape.

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14) As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT) If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB) If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

This smacks of victim blame.

(2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB) Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die."

So infanticide. And the women are punished for the man's sin. Punished by rape. Praise be.

(Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

Somewhat more ethical. Considering it's still advocating systemized rape.

They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

I admit this is getting a bit tedious. The bible does advocate quite a lot of slavery and rape. We're almost done though.

(Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.

There.


I don't know if this is all of the language in the bible specifically on rape but there is quite a lot of it, including that part about Moses, the man who gave us the Ten Commandments people keep trying to put in courthouses.

Once again this is old Jewish law that does not apply to christians. Christianity often gets a bad rep for these verses because at the time of the new testament Jesus and his disciples were not looking to destroy the establishment but to reconcile the establishment with God. Jesus and his disciples took the laws and customs of the Jewish and gentile (unbelievers--not Jews) people at face value. Just as that society had slaves and ours does not--it is a reflection of the society and customs of the time-not the Chrsitian religion.

The problem is that this apologism for slavery and atrocity is actually in fact in your holy book. So Jesus was just being tactful with monsters who beat human slaves to death? How moral of him. I suppose if he had lived in the time of the Nazis he would have told Hitler to "go a little easier" on the Jews and only throw them in the ovens three at a time. Just recall that, where we're from, America, we did have slaves until rather recently, so it's a very, very new thing to say that this belonged to a different culture. Apart from the fact that America is still the world's largest importer of human slaves.

In the end, halfway between right and wrong is not right, and excusing people for beating their slaves to death isn't any better than it sounds.

If the bible is a reflection of people in ancient history who are made irrelevant by their ignorant ways, and Christianity is supposed to represent a respectable code of morality, while also being a reflection of the bible, why couldn't you just, you know, pick a different book?

I would really appreciate it if you and others on this forum would refrain from quoting things that you have absolutely no understanding of and who have a hateful agenda to spread your beliefs on others. I and other christians have just as much right as you to believe whatever religion we choose.

I am not spreading my beliefs onto others. My agenda is not hateful, just skeptical. You have the right to believe what you want but I have the right to criticize it.

and i apologize on behalf of other christians who have tried to spread their beliefs onto you, christians are not super human we are just human--people who make mistakes just like you.

The problem with the "we are just human" speech is that theists say that when it's convenient, then turn around and try to tell the rest of us that they're divinely inspired. We can talk all day about "the good old days" when this book was written, and rationalize proscriptions about food and sanitation. If this book was written by men, for men, at a time when they couldn't even safely eat crab, lobster or shrimp, what makes this book remotely relevant today? Especially in light of the fact that it is so easy to justify atrocity in it.

By the way I especially like your condescending way of saying I can't be convinced by way of reason. Why yes, I am purposefully irrational and attached to something I've invested my sense of self worth and morality into. Thanks for noticing.

 

[Flax6177]

Well, the very fact that this book can be interpreted in any way that the reader likes kind of rules any sort of divine inspiration out of the question IMO.

This is simply not true. The OT bible has been translated from Hebrew and the NT bible has been translated from Greek. In order to understand these books and every other book you have to understand 1) the language, 2) the context, and 3) purpose (meaning the type of literature such as:letter, parable, ect..) The reason many people can make the bible say hateful things and why people claim that christianity is responsible is becuase they take it OUT OF CONTEXT. It only says 1 thing, other people make it say different things--this is a reflection of those people not of the RELIGION OF CHRISTIANITY.

and again, you and the previous poster have misquoted scripture by taking it out of context to make some ridiculous point and reason why christianity makes no sense. Please do not do this as it is a slap in the face to all believers.If you are not a christian that is one thing, the point of this thread and all of my posts have been to say that just because one nut job claims he is christian and says many hateful things does not mean his religion advocates this becuase at least in christianity's case---IT DOES NOT

 

[hairychris]

Remingds me of the Blazing Saddles lines:

Lamarr: Qualifications?
Outlaw: Rape, murder, arson and rape.
Lamarr: You said rape twice.
Outlaw: I like rape.

This is simply not true. The OT bible has been translated from Hebrew and the NT bible has been translated from Greek. In order to understand these books and every other book you have to understand 1) the language, 2) the context, and 3) purpose (meaning the type of literature such as:letter, parable, ect..) The reason many people can make the bible say hateful things and why people claim that christianity is responsible is becuase they take it OUT OF CONTEXT. It only says 1 thing, other people make it say different things--this is a reflection of those people not of the RELIGION OF CHRISTIANITY.

and again, you and the previous poster have misquoted scripture by taking it out of context to make some ridiculous point and reason why christianity makes no sense. Please do not do this as it is a slap in the face to all believers.If you are not a christian that is one thing, the point of this thread and all of my posts have been to say that just because one nut job claims he is christian and says many hateful things does not mean his religion advocates this becuase at least in christianity's case---IT DOES NOT

OK, what context is Psalm 137 to be taken in?

And do you think that I'm going to burn in hell? Go on - yes or no. Yes - I class you as immoral. No - you ain't following the book.

We also have a MAJOR problem with definition. You claim that you are Christian & this guy isn't. This guy claims that he IS Christian, and, probably would claim that you aren't. Who's right? You? Him? Both? Neither?

You can quote the bible and back up your view. He can do the same. I can pick out all sorts of random violence to prove my point. Who's right? I claim that my (and the other posters) quotes from the book are JUST as in context as yours are. Prove that we aren't.

The whole thing is, according to believers (eg you and this youtube numpty) the bible is the unerrant word of god.

Can you see why, as a non-christian (although I was baptised many moons ago) I don't know who's what. If you claim you're christian and can quote the bible, then IMO you're a christian. Not my problem that you're schismatic as fuck. The catholics, for their faults, realised this centuries ago so the pope is the ultimate arbitor when speaking ex cathedra.

What can you do to fix this? Decide what the hell the bible is supposed to mean. Do that and come back to me when all billion or so christians can agree on what they're supposed to believe. Until then? Makes no sense whatsoever as it's so open to interpretation.

Speaking of translations, that's all well and good. However the majority of christians take the bible in their native language... often literally. Tell them first.

 

[Flax6177]

The problem with the "we are just human" speech is that theists say that when it's convenient, then turn around and try to tell the rest of us that they're divinely inspired. We can talk all day about "the good old days" when this book was written, and rationalize proscriptions about food and sanitation. If this book was written by men, for men, at a time when they couldn't even safely eat crab, lobster or shrimp, what makes this book remotely relevant today? Especially in light of the fact that it is so easy to justify atrocity in it.

By the way I especially like your condescending way of saying I can't be convinced by way of reason. Why yes, I am purposefully irrational and attached to something I've invested my sense of self worth and morality into. Thanks for noticing.

All you are doing is making up reasons in your own mind why this religion is false. and this is not the point of this thread. you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine, however, i find it very interesting that you can basically desecrate my holy scripture and make it say nonsense and then if i even sound remotely condescending you get all defensive...Do not judge the RELIGION OF CHRISTIANITY by the actions of bigots claiming to be christians.

 

[Setnakt]

All you are doing is making up reasons in your own mind why this religion is false. and this is not the point of this thread. you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine, however, i find it very interesting that you can basically desecrate my holy scripture and make it say nonsense and then if i even sound remotely condescending you get all defensive...Do not judge the RELIGION OF CHRISTIANITY by the actions of bigots claiming to be christians.

I'm not even really judging Christianity by that guy. I'm judging Christianity by what's in the bible. The fact that what he says isn't that far removed from the bible in my eyes is the problem here.

By "desecrating" the bible I suppose you mean quoting from it?

You say the bible is the holy word of God. You say that, as a Christian, you get your morality from the bible. Then you say that what's in the bible doesn't reflect on you. Feel free to set the record straight here.

 

[hairychris]

You say the bible is the holy word of God. You say that, as a Christian, you get your morality from the bible. Then you say that what's in the bible doesn't reflect on you. Feel free to set the record straight here.

The old story:

If anything that god does is moral because of his act of doing so, this makes him at best amoral - as the morality is dependant on the source of the command and that only.

If, however, god does what is moral because it is in his nature to do good, or does good out of choice, then morality is a concept that even god adheres to.

Paradox, no?

And yeah, all down to interpretation ultimately!

 

[synrgy]

 

[Flax6177]

I'm not even really judging Christianity by that guy. I'm judging Christianity by what's in the bible. The fact that what he says isn't that far removed from the bible in my eyes is the problem here.

By "desecrating" the bible I suppose you mean quoting from it?

You say the bible is the holy word of God. You say that, as a Christian, you get your morality from the bible. Then you say that what's in the bible doesn't reflect on you. Feel free to set the record straight here.

You have again twisted what i have said to fit your own agenda. What I say or what that man on the videos says has NO reflection on the BIBLE or Christianity. Not the other way around. And no, what I mean by "desecrating" the bible is that you are MISQUOTING the bible by taking it out of context and twisting what it is saying to fit what you want it to say. You are judging the bible based on what YOU want it to say, not what it says based on context, language, and purpose.

The old story:

If anything that god does is moral because of his act of doing so, this makes him at best amoral - as the morality is dependant on the source of the command and that only.

If, however, god does what is moral because it is in his nature to do good, or does good out of choice, then morality is a concept that even god adheres to.

Paradox, no?

And yeah, all down to interpretation ultimately!

No it is not a paradox. IF God and only IF God is the creator of all things, then HE sets the standard on what is moral or not. Morality is not some everfixed standard that everyone just "knows" it is set by a standard and IF God is the Creator of all things then he would set the standard of morality. Of course that depends on your beliefs and if we both do not have the same beliefs then your standard of morality is different than mine.

 

[vampiregenocide]

 

[Flax6177]

OK, what context is Psalm 137 to be taken in?

And do you think that I'm going to burn in hell? Go on - yes or no. Yes - I class you as immoral. No - you ain't following the book.

We also have a MAJOR problem with definition. You claim that you are Christian & this guy isn't. This guy claims that he IS Christian, and, probably would claim that you aren't. Who's right? You? Him? Both? Neither?

You can quote the bible and back up your view. He can do the same. I can pick out all sorts of random violence to prove my point. Who's right? I claim that my (and the other posters) quotes from the book are JUST as in context as yours are. Prove that we aren't.

The whole thing is, according to believers (eg you and this youtube numpty) the bible is the unerrant word of god.

Can you see why, as a non-christian (although I was baptised many moons ago) I don't know who's what. If you claim you're christian and can quote the bible, then IMO you're a christian. Not my problem that you're schismatic as fuck. The catholics, for their faults, realised this centuries ago so the pope is the ultimate arbitor when speaking ex cathedra.

What can you do to fix this? Decide what the hell the bible is supposed to mean. Do that and come back to me when all billion or so christians can agree on what they're supposed to believe. Until then? Makes no sense whatsoever as it's so open to interpretation.

Speaking of translations, that's all well and good. However the majority of christians take the bible in their native language... often literally. Tell them first.

Yes, unfortunately if you are a non believer you will burn in hell. It is a sad truth which is why I am at least attempting to answer you question in an attempt to save you from that fate. God will judge us all. The deciding factor is that if you accept Jesus' gift of redemption (that he died on the cross for all of our past, present, and future sins) you will receive everlasting life in Heaven. Im sorry if you class me as immoral because my morality is defined by God the Creator of all things. The difference between me and that man is that I am not taking scripture out of context and bending it to say what I want--that man is. While the only qualification to be a christian is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, some christians are very misguided and believe all sorts of crazy things that are not supported by the bible. and that is the ultimate authority because in John 1 it says that

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

All christians do not have to agree on what the bible says. You have to read the bible and find out what IT says. Do not base your judgements on christians but base it on the bible IN context and you will find that it is much different than what many people spin it to be.

 

[Brendan G]

We have found another Flyingbanana

 

[vampiregenocide]

We have found another Flyingbanana

Ahh...those were good times


Btw I'm not going to hell. I know that for a fact.

 

[Flax6177]

We have found another Flyingbanana

I am not condemning anyone. Everyone living on this earth has the chance to repent of his/her sins and follow the Lord Jesus Christ. In the end times God will judge everyone. No unbeliever will be spared from his wrath. However, right now everyone has the chance to repent and follow Jesus. It is not preordained who will or who will not follow Jesus, it is simply up to you and it is why God has given us free will.

this is simply my belief and is NOT the point of this thread or any of my posts. I have been simply trying to say that you should not judge the actions of christians as a reflection of the RELIGION of christianity.

 

[hairychris]

No it is not a paradox. IF God and only IF God is the creator of all things, then HE sets the standard on what is moral or not. Morality is not some everfixed standard that everyone just "knows" it is set by a standard and IF God is the Creator of all things then he would set the standard of morality. Of course that depends on your beliefs and if we both do not have the same beliefs then your standard of morality is different than mine.

OK, so, as you think that god IS the creator of all things then anything that he commands in moral.

Jepthath's daughter? (human sacrifice - and yes, they went through with it)

Genocide of the Amelkites?

God's bet with Satan over Job? (aka really fucking with someone)

This is just the start of a list.

And, in case you pull out a line saying 'life/whatever is god's gift so he can take it away'... If I gave you a present for your birthday, then 6 months later came round to your house & took it back because you'd irrittated me, what would you call that?

this is simply my belief and is NOT the point of this thread or any of my posts. I have been simply trying to say that you should not judge the actions of christians as a reflection of the RELIGION of christianity.

I won't even go there.

A groups followers reflect that group. Simple as. Good and bad.

It's 'your' belief that christianity is nice & fluffy. Fine. It isn't all christians.

OK. just read the answer. Fine in your opinion I'm off th hell. Now, the 2nd part of the question: do you, personally, think that I deserve it? OK, I'm just a random bloke off the internet but I've not killed/maimed/abused any one, and try to get along as well as I can. Do YOU think that I deserve hell? No disclaimer as in 'as god declares it that has to be truth' but as a purely personal moral question?

 

[Setnakt]

some christians are very misguided and believe all sorts of crazy things that are not supported by the bible. and that is the ultimate authority because in John 1 it says that

You have to read the bible and find out what IT says. Do not base your judgements on christians but base it on the bible IN context and you will find that it is much different than what many people spin it to be.

I am not basing my judgments on what people, like you, say it says - I am actually reading it, and basing my judgments on the document itself.

What I say or what that man on the videos says has NO reflection on the BIBLE or Christianity.

Right. I'm not judging you, I'm judging the bible.

You are judging the bible based on what YOU want it to say, not what it says based on context, language, and purpose.

I am judging the bible based on what it actually says. Unless you want to explain the context for all of those commandments unto atrocity and set the record straight here, like why Moses committed genocide and mass rape, and how it's somehow a good thing.

IF God and only IF God is the creator of all things, then HE sets the standard on what is moral or not.

Actually it is logically possible for logic, and ethics, and thus morality, to be things that would be rationally discoverable by conscious people, even in a universe created by some vaguely defined "creator" who also made arbitrary commandments unto atrocity.

I am not condemning anyone.

You are condemning anyone who doesn't agree with you.

 

[vampiregenocide]

^ This post is heroic.