AngelVivaldi
Contributor
When I used to teach, I used to tell my students(as far as theory was concerned), "It's easier to break the rules if you know what they are."
Beautifully put! +1
Musician Stereotypes
- Thread starter Psychobuddy
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Beautifully put! +1
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signalgrey
Ambiente Savante
^this
I have nothing against it and would really like to learn a good way to communicate my music to others, but for some reason I just can't bring myself to learn any theory. I really hate when I tell people that I don't know any theory, and they automatically assume I'm a terrible musician. It really makes those sleepless nights of noodling seem meaningless.
I've dealt with musicians in band situations, and if I had to choose from auditions someone who knew theory and someone who didn't, I'd choose the one who knew. It's much easier to communicate to another musician what chord, when, and how, why a minor 3rd harmony would sound so evil over this chord progression, etc. While I appreciate good technique, It's very hard to speak tablature.
JohnIce
Singlecoil Enthusiast
When I used to teach, I used to tell my students(as far as theory was concerned), "It's easier to break the rules if you know what they are."
Haha I was going to say the same thing!
I was self-taught and theory-less for my first 7 years of playing, and during that time I wrote many songs that I thought were pretty good. After studying theory in a higher musical education, I learned that it was my lack of knowledge that made me think I was writing these innovative songs, but learning theory gave me a wider overview on music and I realized those old songs and solos I'd done weren't really all that exciting. Competent for sure, but it didn't impress me at all anymore. In short: my standards got higher.
To me, saying that theory limits your creativity is like saying a large vocabulary limits your ways of expressing yourself. It defies logic, to me. John Frusciante said something that it's like saying: "I don't want to learn a language, I'd rather just rub my penis all over people".
Many people think that theory is a set of rules, when it's not, it's a musical alphabet, more or less. You know, you can speak a language without knowing the alphabet, doesn't mean learning to write and read wouldn't help you expand on what you already know, because you'll be able to learn new words, read great authors etc. that will make you a better and more expressive speaker, more interesting to listen to.
Arminius
Well-Known Member
JohnIce
Singlecoil Enthusiast
I do know my intervals, I'm not that hopeless
Then you know theory. Like I said, it's like a vocabulary, some know more words than others, but you're still speaking the same language.
Most people know some theory, like for instance knowing the name of a basic G chord falls under theory studies. The difference is between the people who actively want to expand upon that, and those who are fine leaving their musical progress to chance, if you will.
I do know my intervals, I'm not that hopeless
No one's saying you are friend
and I'm sorry if it seemed like an attack on you lol. I didn't mean it to be. Personally I am a blues-influenced metal player who should be alot better at his technique for how many years I've been playing so we all have our drawbacks. No one is saying you need to take lessons from a teacher either... sometimes the best way is learning from a book etc, as long as it's properly learning from a respected source. Theory starts out very basic and expands from there. And theory applies to every instrument, not just guitar, so it makes you more versatile and marketable to bands in the long run.Well put. I also used to tell students, "The English alphabet is 26 letters, and the musical alphabet is 7. How hard can it be?"
JohnIce
Singlecoil Enthusiast
Indeed, not to mention the most important part: It makes it easier for you to realize your musical vision. Sure, theory helps me communicate with other musicians, but above all, it helps my own creativite mind communicate with my hands. To me, theory is the art of knowing what you want to play and then playing it, as opposed to fiddling around hoping it will sound good, or relying on habits and muscle memory. Theory helps me go beyond set scales and patterns, because I don't need "fingerings" and "boxes" anymore. Each of the 12 notes serves a purpose, some are more useful than others of course, but all of them can be used effectively in any key, both for chording and soloing. That's a very important thing that theory has taught me.
daveycrockett
Well-Known Member
i'm just a dirty metal kid
JohnIce
Singlecoil Enthusiast
Funny how this thread was kinda hijacked into a music theory vs non music theory thread
Hehe true. But guitarists are indeed often stereotyped as the self-taught, theoretically illiterate guy. There's a joke that goes: "How do you make a guitarist shut up? Put some sheet music in front of him."
(Now, sheet music isn't designed for electric guitar and with all the different fingerings and tone shaping options you have, playing guitar from sheet music isn't really optimal. But learning to read standard notation is a great tool to have, nonetheless.)
DaveCarter
Melowiddler
Ive heard a lot of this recently, to the extent of people forgetting theory on purpose because it was restricting their songwriting. Its often guitarists that I really respect as musicians, but personally I think if you cant explain what youre doing with theory, then you just need to learn more theory
No matter how outside-the-box you want to sound, it can always be explained with some kind of theory knowledge. The advantage of that is once you understand WHY it sounds that way, you can recreate that sound again at any time in any other song. Its fair enough to play a crazy sounding chord and say "i dont care what the fancy name for it is because I think it sounds COOL!" but if you DO know that its a...G#m7add11 whilst in the key of Bm, then at another time you'll be able to think "Hmmm, so if Im in F#m, then to get the same sound as in the last song I need a...D#m7add11", and you'll be able to get the exact same vibe straight away. That just makes perfect sense to me
TomParenteau
Tube & Analog Snob
Potential employer: "Musician? Flake. Druggy. Party-er."
Snobby non-rock musician: "Metal player? No talent or technical ability."
Snobby non-rock musician: "Metal player? No talent or technical ability."
JPhoenix19
Playing life by ear
That's me! Flake to the core
JohnIce
Singlecoil Enthusiast
Ive heard a lot of this recently, to the extent of people forgetting theory on purpose because it was restricting their songwriting. Its often guitarists that I really respect as musicians, but personally I think if you cant explain what youre doing with theory, then you just need to learn more theory
No matter how outside-the-box you want to sound, it can always be explained with some kind of theory knowledge. The advantage of that is once you understand WHY it sounds that way, you can recreate that sound again at any time in any other song. Its fair enough to play a crazy sounding chord and say "i dont care what the fancy name for it is because I think it sounds COOL!" but if you DO know that its a...G#m7add11 whilst in the key of Bm, then at another time you'll be able to think "Hmmm, so if Im in F#m, then to get the same sound as in the last song I need a...D#m7add11", and you'll be able to get the exact same vibe straight away. That just makes perfect sense to me
Precise!
Haha, I didn't mean to start this big discussion. In my opinion, wheter you play good doesn't have much to do with knowing theory or not, you either have it or you don't. Theory is optional, personally I like it, I think it's interesting, but IMO you always have to rely on your ears first hand.
Another stereotype: Classical musicians can't improv.
In my experience, this one's actually true about 50% of the time. It depends on the person, most of the people I've met that have been playing classical music exclusively have some trouble improvising, but people who have also diverged into other kinds of music seem to have a much easier time improvising.
People from that type, classical musicians also playing other genres of music, also happens to have been some of the most talented musicians I've met. Most of the ones I know are killer singers too.
Another stereotype: Classical musicians can't improv.
In my experience, this one's actually true about 50% of the time. It depends on the person, most of the people I've met that have been playing classical music exclusively have some trouble improvising, but people who have also diverged into other kinds of music seem to have a much easier time improvising.
People from that type, classical musicians also playing other genres of music, also happens to have been some of the most talented musicians I've met. Most of the ones I know are killer singers too.
Maestro
Active Member
I tend to see myself as artsy and sensitive, however I don't know if there is anything to do with me being a musician.
I think that the ego stereotype for guitarrists AND singers is often true and it can be a problem. Luckily I don't have the problem, I'm pretty bad at the guitar haha.
There is also the stereotype that guitar players don't know theory. That is unfortunately mostly true. Most guitar players just pick up the guitar to play tunes off tabs just for fun. There is nothing wrong with that, but it does tend to give other guitar players a bad rep.
Hopefully as more bands follow the trend of actually attending music school to learn music things might change a bit. The stereotype of the rock musician is still the drunken garage band. But there are a lot of people out there who are getting their degrees in music and playing rock/metal. Hopefully as these educated musicians inspire a new generation of future guitar players, the image will start to change and we might see more technical styles of rock/metal start to get more respect from other musicians.
I think that the ego stereotype for guitarrists AND singers is often true and it can be a problem. Luckily I don't have the problem, I'm pretty bad at the guitar haha.
There is also the stereotype that guitar players don't know theory. That is unfortunately mostly true. Most guitar players just pick up the guitar to play tunes off tabs just for fun. There is nothing wrong with that, but it does tend to give other guitar players a bad rep.
Hopefully as more bands follow the trend of actually attending music school to learn music things might change a bit. The stereotype of the rock musician is still the drunken garage band. But there are a lot of people out there who are getting their degrees in music and playing rock/metal. Hopefully as these educated musicians inspire a new generation of future guitar players, the image will start to change and we might see more technical styles of rock/metal start to get more respect from other musicians.
Dusty201087
Kenyon class of 2014
While I love theory and think it is a great tool, my songwriting has declined horribly since I started taking classes.
Also,
I fucking hate that saying!
JohnIce
Singlecoil Enthusiast
While I love theory and think it is a great tool, my songwriting has declined horribly since I started taking classes.
Also,
I fucking hate that saying!
Interesting... would you want to elaborate on that? I've found it to be the complete and total opposite in my case, so I'd be interested to hear your story.
