My other guitarist pulls a "HEAD"

[Metal Ken]

It'd be way more entertaining that way ;p

 

[The Dark Wolf]

Shannon, I thought you explained a reasonable, logical position excellently, and I couldn't agree with you more. Well said.

 

[No Soul]

OK, I consider myself full-on Agnostic. To me, that means: I know there's a higher being than us....I just can't tell you who or what it is.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but thats actually almost the opposite of what an agnostic is.

In religious terms somebody who is agnostic does not believe or disbelieve in the existance of a god or after life, and will only make a claim of said belief or disbelief with solid proof.


Anywhooo...
You can look at my screen name here and take a wild guess as to what I think about this subject
actually I hold a lot of eastern spirtual beliefs, but Im not a religious practitioner by far.

Bak to the original topic, its really simple man, just let it go and look for another guitar player. As stated, we arent exactly rare. Even though personaly I do not agree with the decisions your now former guitarist made which lead him to leave the band, I can say I do respect his decision, and if I were in your shoes I would respect the fact that he was upfront about it and explained it to you, as opposed to just walking off without a word.

In the mean time, drink beer, snort coke, fuck girls, and worshipSATAN!!! :

p.s.
So many "TRUE" metalheads here, and so many Xtians too

 

[Shannon]

Not trying to be disrespectful, but thats actually almost the opposite of what an agnostic is.

In religious terms somebody who is agnostic does not believe or disbelieve in the existance of a god or after life, and will only make a claim of said belief or disbelief with solid proof.

No offense taken. I'm not sure I agree with you. My statement does follow the textbook definition of agnostic. Observe....

Q: What is an Agnostic?
A: "An agnostic thinks it impossible to know the truth in matters such as God and the future life with which Christianity and other religions are concerned. Or, if not impossible, at least impossible at the present time."

Q: Are Agnostic's atheists?
A: "No. An atheist, like a Christian, holds that we can know whether or not there is a God. The Christian holds that we can know there is a God; the atheist, that we can know there is not. The Agnostic suspends judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for affirmation or for denial. At the same time, an Agnostic may hold that the existence of God, though not impossible, is very improbable; he may even hold it so improbable that it is not worth considering in practice."


Even as opinionated as I am, I'm basically a guy sitting on the fence when it comes to the existence of what Christians know as "God". Again, I believe there's something bigger than us. I just don't know who or WHAT it is. I refuse to believe that one history book such as The Bible has all the answers. Take from it what you will & FORM YOUR OWN OPINIONS BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW AND CAN PROVE! Since I can't prove anything, I'm certainly not gonna change my life or expect others to change. Life doesn't come with an operator's manual & people shouldn't treat The Bible as such. It's just another history book.

For all I know, Jesus was just a guy who became a great humanitarian (think Ghandi from 2000 years ago). Then, a bunch of asskissers wrote a book about his life. And just for good measure, they threw in a bunch of magical shit to "spice" up the story (i.e. "water into wine", "parting of the seas", "frogs falling from the sky", etc.).

Again, it'll take more than that to PROVE it to me. Just because a lot of people call it "God's Book", it doesn't necessarily make it so.
<Sorry if this thread got off-topic, but religious debates are always a hoot>

 

[MyOwnEffigy]

People think that Atheists think proof or disproof is absolute. Like there's some hard and fast rules to being Atheist. The only thing about being Atheist is having convictions. Is holding your ground and speaking with certainity instead of wavering with jelly legs. The main thing is that there are hundreds of thousands of religions in the world, they all think their right. Logicall, they're all wrong then. Its a rule of odds issue. If there a bunch of clashing views that are very different, then it can be assumed they're all wrong. That's where the difference lies. There's no right book? Of course there's not, because they're all made by man. That's where the fallacy lies. People often think in terms of the western theologies but neglect to consider eastern philosophies where there sometimes is no real afterlife or there is no God. So, to say that you believe in a higher power? That's make you non-denomonatial Christian. Because typically, and this is just typically now, the belief in a deity is mostly of a western thinking. And the dominant western view is Christianity or Islam. And Islam is very similar to Christian. And let me expand upon my first post by saying, people who are agnostic are like people who get asked "Pepsi or Coke?" and say "Yes." Agnostic's just a fancy name for "Hey, check me out, I can try to be rebellious too."

As a side note, someone stated that they were less irritating because they don't encroach as much on personal beliefs, which is what religion is, but they often go about saying "Christians don't think. Christians are stupid for buying into their book. I think." I'm not like that, I only think Agnostic is a misnomer. And if someone wants to be Christian, Pagan, Jewish, Muslim, Hindi, whatever, that's their bag. I think they're just more firm in their beliefs. And its just a matter of respect, I just respect people who stand by their beliefs but don't go, "Well... maybe... errr... ummm.... I dunno..." Obviously we don't know. But if in your lifetime you can't form an idea or at least a logical conclusion about what religion makes the most sense to you, It just seems like taking the safe bet to me. "Well, I want to viewed like I'm outrageous for decreeing there is no God like an Atheist, but I don't want to go to that extreme. But I don't want to bomb an abortion clinic. I'll just reside in the middle. Ah, safe."

One last metaphor, its like calling up the Entertainment Tonight or CNN pollsters for a buck a call and going, "Golly gee, I dunno."

"Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions."
- G.K. Chesterton

-Steve

P.S. I'll post like 3 or 4 other times tooting my own horn and patting my own back. GO ME! YAY! Ticker tape parade and hurrah!

 

[MyOwnEffigy]

*puts on crown and sneers out of ivory tower*

Wow, wasn't my last post just splendiferous neato? I might as well be decreed emperor of the universe. Why am I the greatest? I'm gonna take a cruise on the high horse. Back later.

-Steve

 

[Shannon]

There's no right book? Of course there's not, because they're all made by man. That's where the fallacy lies.

Agreed 100%.

People often think in terms of the western theologies but neglect to consider eastern philosophies where there sometimes is no real afterlife or there is no God. So, to say that you believe in a higher power? That's make you non-denomonatial Christian. Because typically, and this is just typically now, the belief in a deity is mostly of a western thinking. And the dominant western view is Christianity or Islam. And Islam is very similar to Christian. And let me expand upon my first post by saying, people who are agnostic are like people who get asked "Pepsi or Coke?" and say "Yes." Agnostic's just a fancy name for "Hey, check me out, I can try to be rebellious too."

Just speaking for myself....
There is no way existence as we know it just appeared out of thin air. Do I believe there's something bigger than us? Yeah, but I'm not gonna bow down & worship "whatever IT is" just because a book made by man tells me too. I'm not gonna call "it" God. It doesn't make me a Christian because I don't believe in a deity known as Christ. It doesn't make me an Atheist either. Agnostics are in the middle. Do I like being in that position? No. I'm an opinionated bastard. I like being able to back up my beliefs & answers with definitive proof. But even an opinionated bastard can be stumped & I'm not gonna pretend to know everything just because it's the "cool thing to do."

I'd LOVE to know all the answers, but I don't. Instead, I go by the evidence that science & history has provided thus far. Example: Do I know the answer to the age-old question "Why are we here?" No, I don't. At least you know I'm not gonna give you a bullshit answer just to make myself look cool & I certainly can admit to not being a self-professed know-it-all. It's not a rebellious trip. It's just keeping an open mind until proof is available.

Honestly, who would you rather listen to?
A) A guy who backs up his answers with proof beyond a doubt & can also admit to not knowing everything.
B) A guy who THINKS he has all the answers & bases them on assumptions.

I'll take the first guy. At least, he'll tell me the truth, according to him. And by the way, I prefer Coke.

I only think Agnostic is a misnomer. And if someone wants to be Christian, Pagan, Jewish, Muslim, Hindi, whatever, that's their bag. I think they're just more firm in their beliefs. And its just a matter of respect, I just respect people who stand by their beliefs but don't go, "Well... maybe... errr... ummm.... I dunno..."

I have no problem with anyone's beliefs. They can believe whatever they choose to. Religious beliefs should be a PERSONAL thing. You shouldn't care what others think. Case in point...in my circle of close friends, I have Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, Catholics, Satanists, & Buddists. How the hell do we all get along? Simple. Those beliefs are personal to each one of us. It doesn't make any of us right or wrong, just different, and we all respect that about each other. I refuse to JUDGE them & their personal beliefs just because they walk a different path. More power to them.

Just as these people are firm in their beliefs, I am firm in my belief that I am willing to keep an open mind. I am firm in my belief that although it took less proof to convince others who follow established faiths, I need further evidence before I say "I am a follower of THIS faith." Get it now?

Obviously we don't know. But if in your lifetime you can't form an idea or at least a logical conclusion about what religion makes the most sense to you, It just seems like taking the safe bet to me. "Well, I want to viewed like I'm outrageous for decreeing there is no God like an Atheist, but I don't want to go to that extreme. But I don't want to bomb an abortion clinic. I'll just reside in the middle. Ah, safe."

In my lifetime? Newsflash! I'm only 30 years old & still problably have a good 50 years to go. My safe conclusion, based on WHAT I KNOW, is logical. And no, I'm not extremist. You're right! I won't say I'm an atheist because it hasn't been proven to me that there isn't a god. The same goes for Christianity & the proof of a God. And no, I won't bomb an abortion clinic because I'm Pro-Choice.

The middle is not a bad place. In my experience, most well-rounded people aren't extreme conservatives or liberals. On one subject, they may be conservative. On another, they may be liberal. Example: I think liberally when it comes to abortion rights, just as, I think conservatively when it comes to the death penalty. There is no safeness. There will always be people who are ready to argue with you and test your beliefs....just as we are now. Am I mad at you for disagreeing with me? No. It's just 2 people having conversation. After this, I'll have a Coke & a cigarette and continue on with my day. No harm, no foul.

 

[Digital Black]

Myowneffigy- At least you realize you are talking down to people, specifically us "rebellious for the sake of being rebellious" Agnostics.

As for eveyone else-we cannot get inside each others heads to see the real meaning and motives of our choices-we cannot judge one another because we have not expierenced what the other person has.

That being said-I'm closing this thread before somebody goes to far.
However, I encourage you all to come back and read it later on down the road-see if we still feel the same about we have posted..