Necronomicon

[distressed_romeo]

Just got the Simon version in the mail this afternoon, having ordered it after the 'Azagthoth on Wikipedia' thread. Haven't had a chance to read it yet, but at first glance, it looks like an interesting read.

Who else here is into magic/the occult and mythology?

 

[irg7620]

i am wiccan if that helps. i had a version of the necronomicon a while back (over 10 years ago) and it was really creepy stuff. but a cool read though. i learned that occult magick is not something for the faint of heart. you really have to take a lot of extra care if you intend to do some of the rituals. i have also read the satanic bible by anton le vey. this was also during my time of finding my true beliefs. a very emotional, soul-tearing time and then i found wicca and was totally reliefed to find the religion that has every belief that i have in it.

 

[Metal Ken]

I'm interested in it.. im actually reading the satanic bible right now. I didnt expect it to have any ritualistic type stuff in it, considering what Satanism is know for -- Being an Atheistic self glorifying religion... i just figured it'd be an interesting read... i've got a whiole bunch of stuff from Crowley, Gurdijeff et al... though i havent gotten to read the gurdijeff stuff yet.. fucking longass books. i was working on reading the book of lies recently.

 

[technomancer]

The Simon _Necronomicon_ is an amusing read... There's a new additional book for it coming out on the 10/31, _The Gates of the Necronomicon_. I actually collect Necronomicons

As for Crowley, he was a brilliant occultist, but you need to keep in mind that he was also an egomaniacal drug addict who spent 90% of his time trying to get over his upbringing.

LaVey... ah where to start. Keep in mind that LaVey was a very smart man looking for a way to make a fast buck and you should be ok

 

[Chris D]

The "Simon" one is the only one I've seen, and it is certainly interesting whichever way you look at it.

@MK: Definately give Gurdjieff a go... Especially his "All & Everything" series, "Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson" is an absolute classic.

 

[technomancer]

The "Simon" one is the only one I've seen, and it is certainly interesting whichever way you look at it.

There are a ton of Necros and related works. Here are a few of the better known:

http://www.amazon.com/Necronomicon-..._bbs_sr_2/102-3196295-2080932?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/Necronomicon-...f=sr_1_16/102-3196295-2080932?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/RLyeh-Text-Le...f=sr_1_12/102-3196295-2080932?ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/Pseudonomicon...pd_bbs_10/102-3196295-2080932?ie=UTF8&s=books

 

[irg7620]

I'm interested in it.. im actually reading the satanic bible right now. I didnt expect it to have any ritualistic type stuff in it, considering what Satanism is know for -- Being an Atheistic self glorifying religion... i just figured it'd be an interesting read... i've got a whiole bunch of stuff from Crowley, Gurdijeff et al... though i havent gotten to read the gurdijeff stuff yet.. fucking longass books. i was working on reading the book of lies recently.

the necronomicon has several rituals in it. at least the book that i read. all about opening 7 gates or something like that. very interesting to read. i don't believe in satanism anyway since we wiccans don't believe in an absolute evil. but if anybody does, that's ok. i won't look down on you.

 

[Metal Ken]

As for Crowley, he was a brilliant occultist, but you need to keep in mind that he was also an egomaniacal drug addict who spent 90% of his time trying to get over his upbringing.

Who happened to climb mountains as a hobby. i think the whole drug addict thing was a bit overstated by his critics.

LaVey... ah where to start. Keep in mind that LaVey was a very smart man looking for a way to make a fast buck and you should be ok

Thats pretty much the mindset i had when i bought the thing ;p

 

[Metal Ken]

the necronomicon has several rituals in it. at least the book that i read. all about opening 7 gates or something like that. very interesting to read. i don't believe in satanism anyway since we wiccans don't believe in an absolute evil. but if anybody does, that's ok. i won't look down on you.

I was referring to the Satanic bible. But, no, if you look at LaVayen satanism, it isnt about absolute evil, its about absolute worship of the self.

 

[technomancer]

Who happened to climb mountains as a hobby. i think the whole drug addict thing was a bit overstated by his critics.

Not really. The most amazing thing about Crowley is the stuff he accomplished with the quantity of drugs he used. Not to mention his mountain climbing days were pretty early on. Note I did say Crowley was a brilliant occultist. The downside is he also had delusions of grandeur. Not that he was unique in that, a lot of the luminaries in the Golden Dawn circles did as well, including Mathers, though not to the extent that Crowley did.

 

[keithb]

I've been around the block a few times on the "religion" issue.

Brought up Catholic, spent my college years experimenting with Buddhism, Satanism in its various forms, Judaism, various magical and pagan traditions, etc.

For now, I'm comfortable with materialism/atheism combined with a bit of LaVeyan-style self-deism. I'm sure my views will change again

Maybe I'm just a chaote at heart.

 

[Naren]

I don't think I need to go into the rant about all of the necronomicons being works of fiction, intended to deceive the reader into believing it's real. If you're into Wiccan or Satanism, fine. But the necronomicon is just some horror-fans going overboard and trying to capitalize on the success of other writers. At first I wasn't going to post in this thread, but I lost my self control. @_@

And, Ken, I thought a little bit more about what you said about Simon claiming that he translated the book from some old texts and never read Lovecraft. If so, then why are there so many characters from Lovecraft (and Clark Ashton Smith) stories present in his book? That alone disproves what he's saying. It just blows my mind how many people want to believe this is true.

I'll admit it sounds interesting, but it's no more than a fictional book, masquerading as being real. Many people lump it (well, "them" since there are like 10 or more fake necronomicons) together with authentic occultic books, not being able to distinguish the genuines from the works of fiction.

 

[Chris D]

But the necronomicon is just some horror-fans going overboard and trying to capitalize on the success of other writers.

That's kinda how I see it, but it's also interesting how these have become accepted by some occultists as "valid" texts/rituals in that even though they're "invented" (isn't any other ritual/religion?) they can still be viewed as useful in some way, even if only as a cultural/literary curiosity.

As for Crowley, well he's pretty well documented from any angle (sage/madman/occultist/megalomaniac/addict/genius/etc) and having grown up in Leamington Spa ( Crowley's birthplace ) I proudly consider him a "National Treasure".

There's even an urban myth in Leamington about how the statue of Queen Victoria outside the Town Hall is actually a ststue of Crowley in drag(!) facially they are quite similar it's quite amusing to see. Also the statue is crooked on it's plinth, famously due to a WWII bomb moving it, or due to it being hurriedly switched in the middle of the night by O.T.O. agents aided by the Illuminati, depending on which belief you subscribe to...

 

[distressed_romeo]

I don't think I need to go into the rant about all of the necronomicons being works of fiction, intended to deceive the reader into believing it's real. If you're into Wiccan or Satanism, fine. But the necronomicon is just some horror-fans going overboard and trying to capitalize on the success of other writers. At first I wasn't going to post in this thread, but I lost my self control. @_@

And, Ken, I thought a little bit more about what you said about Simon claiming that he translated the book from some old texts and never read Lovecraft. If so, then why are there so many characters from Lovecraft (and Clark Ashton Smith) stories present in his book? That alone disproves what he's saying. It just blows my mind how many people want to believe this is true.

I'll admit it sounds interesting, but it's no more than a fictional book, masquerading as being real. Many people lump it (well, "them" since there are like 10 or more fake necronomicons) together with authentic occultic books, not being able to distinguish the genuines from the works of fiction.

I'm totally aware it's a work of fiction, but are you familiar with the idea of using beliefs as paradigms to aid in magical work? That's kind of the spirit in which I read stuff like this.

Regarding Crowley and LaVey, neither was particularly revolutionary in terms of their magical work, but they were both interesting characters, and both made a lot of impact, so they both deserve a two-horned salute for that alone.

 

[Naren]

I'm totally aware it's a work of fiction, but are you familiar with the idea of using beliefs as paradigms to aid in magical work? That's kind of the spirit in which I read stuff like this.

I know about the belief system where "believing in something alone gives it power," but I don't subscribe to it. I'm a huge horror fan (movies, books, games, etc.), but I regard it all as fiction with no magical power. Granted, I'm more of a realist, but I don't belief there is any real "magical" power in a complete work of fiction created for the purpose of entertainment.

 

[distressed_romeo]

I know about the belief system where "believing in something alone gives it power," but I don't subscribe to it. I'm a huge horror fan (movies, books, games, etc.), but I regard it all as fiction with no magical power. Granted, I'm more of a realist, but I don't belief there is any real "magical" power in a complete work of fiction created for the purpose of entertainment.

That's only part of what I'm saying... It's a pretty common practice in occult circles these days. The idea is that all beliefs are totally arbitrary and meaningless if you look at the universe objectively, but you can temporarily adopt a belief system as a way of viewing the world in a more manageable perspective, or to aid in a magical rite if you're into that.
It's not unlike Soren Kiekegaard or Jean-Paul Sartre's ideas, but taken to a different level. Hence, Christians believing in the stories from the bible is just as valid as black metallers basing their belief systems on Lord of the Rings. It's just like swopping the sunglasses you look at the world through depending on the weather, if that makes sense.

Try Peter Carrol's book, Liber Null and Psychonaut. He explains it slightly better than I can.

 

[Naren]

And it seems just as pointless to me to base your beliefs off of "The Necronomicon" (whichever of the 15 books out there you choose) as to base your beliefs off of Lord Of The Rings. Maybe I should base my beliefs off of "The Wizard of Oz" or some John Grisham novel.

I'm sorry, but to me that whole system of beliefs is just as ridiculous as scientology (if not more ridiculous).

 

[distressed_romeo]

And it seems just as pointless to me to base your beliefs off of "The Necronomicon" (whichever of the 15 books out there you choose) as to base your beliefs off of Lord Of The Rings. Maybe I should base my beliefs off of "The Wizard of Oz" or some John Grisham novel.

I'm sorry, but to me that whole system of beliefs is just as ridiculous as scientology (if not more ridiculous).

I just said, you wouldn't base a full, all-encompassing belief system on that. It's a tool, nothing more.
Comparing what I described to Scientology is totally missing the point.

 

[Naren]

I just said, you wouldn't base a full, all-encompassing belief system on that. It's a tool, nothing more.
Comparing what I described to Scientology is totally missing the point.

I don't know, but basing even part of your belief system off of The Lord of the Rings or The Necronomicon sounds like taking your fandom to new levels of nerdiness ("So, how do you make decisions?" "I base my life on Gandalf's teachings!" "So, you're a religious man?" "Yog-Sothoth is the gate. Yog-sothoth is the key and guardian of the gate. Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-sothoth." "Okaaayyy...." )

I see it as a tool into your imagination or a gateway to entertainment. That's it.

 

[distressed_romeo]

^Exactly...it's using your imagination to it's fullest extent. The whole reason so many magical rituals are very theatrical in nature is that the human mind responds to that.

Now I look back at it, that LOTR example was kinda dumb...

When I was heavily into ritual, I almost always used thoughtforms of Artemis in spells. I don't believe in a pantheon of gods living on top of Olympus, but I've always loved Greek mythology, and I have a deep affinity with her, so by utilising her in that way, all the spells were extremely effective. Someone who's into the Lovecraftian mythos may get a similar result using the stuff in the Necronomicon, even though his 'rational' mind is aware that it's a work of fiction.

See what I'm getting at?