Need Help! ENGL Invader 100 Silence on FX Loop Switch

[D1m3b4g]

Hi Ladies and Gentlemen

I'm usually just an observer here but I have a problem here so I thought I'd give it a post to quiz you more experienced people when it comes to gear...

I have an ENGL Invader 100 head which has 2 FX Send / Return Loops on it.
I use a Z9 footswitch to change channel and this has the benefits of being able to select/store extra settings that toggle things like the noise gate and FX Loop from 1 to 2.

Firstly, I'm assuming light off is Loop 1 and light on Loop 2 as it only switches the light on and off, not to another colour.

So what I wanted to achieve was run a few pedials on my board in direct, things like a wah, tuner and noise suppressor. I have another 3 pedals on my board setup in a chain for delay/chorus/reverb that I want to layer over my solo tone only.

So the idea was set my main channel 3 over driven sound to use FX Loop 1, with nothing in it, and set channel 4 to be slightly louder and switch the FX Loop over to 2 to trigger the layered effects.

Now here is where the problems start, when changing between FX loops on the gain channels, the sound on the amp completely cuts. Dead. Nothing at all. Even if I change back to the channel I was on before, dead. If I change to channels 1 or 2 which are effectively clean / light distortion I get the sound back as normal. Change back again to channel 3 or 4, nothing.

The only thing that brings any noise back is physically putting the amp on standby.

So if I use channels 3 and 4 setup to use the same loop and do not change it... no problems. However this seems pointless to me as I don't want the layered effects over my normal tone, and I don't want to trigger 3 pedals on when ever I go to solo.

So what gives here? This seems like a major fault with the head as it kills any noise outright just by changing to a channel with a different FX loop spefified. Has anyone else run into this? The same goes from 2 to 1, or 1 to 2, I've used all the FX in the loop when getting normal sound and there is no issue, this is 100% the head cutting out completely.

Please advise! Many thanks in advance.

Paul

 

[vanhendrix]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but you're trying to use your 'loop 1' with nothing in it? Maybe the amp is activating the loop (ie sending the preamp signal out the loop send) and since there's nothing coming in the loop return, the poweramp isn't receiving any signal. I know if you turn a parallel loop all the way 'on' with nothing in it then it will also essentially mute your amp. I'd imagine these are just on/off serial loops that would react the same way

These guys were super helpful with tech stuff about my engl: http://englforum.com/

 

[D1m3b4g]

I *have* to select either loop 1 or loop 2, there is no way of turning it off.
I've used the amp for ages with nothing plugged into either and it doesn't matter what the volume of the loop is set to, I'm assuming it's smart enough to realise there is nothing phyiscally cabled in.

One thing to consider, do you really think they'd make an amp that would require to you run 2 loops if you wanted 1 to work on it's own? No of course you wouldn't...

I don't think having nothing plugged into loop 1 is a problem, I think the amp completely cutting when changing to another channel that specifies another loop is

PS - Awesome link I'll take a look, thanks.

 

[Krucifixtion]

Are you making sure that the blend knob on the loop that has nothing running to it is set for 100% dry and not all the way too full wet?

Are you able to get sound out of that loop initially? but your saying the issue is when you switch loops or channels?

On the ENGL you can also kill the power amp through the footswitch. I run my Z-9 footswitch with a MIDI cable so all my sounds are just like different patches and one of my patches is set to just kill the power amp like an amp mute...even though I could just use my tuner pedal it's nice to be able to put it in like a standbye mode without running up to it and hitting the switch.

Just look carefully at the amp when you switch the loop and look at all the lights to see what is happening. Making sure the correct loop lights up and nothing dumb is happening like it's accidently muting the power amp.

 

[D1m3b4g]

I'll answer the questions you asked:

Are you making sure that the blend knob on the loop that has nothing running to it is set for 100% dry and not all the way too full wet?

Yes
I've also reversed the loops say from 1 to 2 and 2 to 1 with the devices plugged into either and it makes no difference.

Are you able to get sound out of that loop initially?

Yes, no problems.

but your saying the issue is when you switch loops or channels?

Yes, exactly. Only when I switch.
If I switch channels and they are on the same loop, no problems.
If I switch channels and they are in a different loop, silence.

I'm willing to bet this happens on the SAME channel in a different patch on a different loop too.

On the ENGL you can also kill the power amp through the footswitch. I run my Z-9 footswitch with a MIDI cable so all my sounds are just like different patches

Me too

and one of my patches is set to just kill the power amp like an amp mute...

I don't know how to do this, I think its a certain midi value to turn on amp mute? Thing is the channels work fine if set to the same FX loop as mentioned before. To test it even further I tried setting up the same settings on different patch values and the same thing happens.

even though I could just use my tuner pedal it's nice to be able to put it in like a standbye mode without running up to it and hitting the switch.

Use my tuner pedal for this too.

Just look carefully at the amp when you switch the loop and look at all the lights to see what is happening. Making sure the correct loop lights up and nothing dumb is happening like it's accidently muting the power amp.

The only thing that changes is the amp channel and FX loop.
As mentioned before, if I change channel to the SAME FX loop, no issues
It's EXCLUSIVE to the amp changing to FX loop 2.

Cheers

Paul

 

[D1m3b4g]

I have an update on this...

If I change change / FX loop by pressing the button on the amp, it works flawlessly.
Nothing cuts out and everything works fine.

If I change FX Loop via the Z9 Midi Controller Footswitch, it mutes the amp.
However I can't prove this because I can't find anything specific to prove the amp is in "mute". (I can't bring it out of mute without dropping back to standby and starting again)

Could there be something retarded going on here in the way that the foot pedal is sending a signal to change FX Loop but is also inadvertently muting the amp!?

 

[vanhendrix]

Have you asked the engl forum yet? The user 'Robin S' has your answer. I'm sure of it

 

[adadglgmut]

I'm not sure if this in any way helps, but restore all of your patches making SURE you leave your standby switch on. I've accidentally set up muted patches by storing while the standby was turned off- hence the amp mute situation. Other than that, you might have a faulty V9 tube that's on its way out.

 

[D1m3b4g]

Vanhendrix: I've applied to sign up for the forum a couple of days ago but no one has authorised my account on there yet, so I'm unable to post.

adadglgmut: The patches work fine normally if left on the same FX Loop. The patches also work fine if they are selected, the amp put into standby and then brought back out of standby. It's literally the amp being muted whenever the FX Loop is changed, I'm convinced that's what is going on.

If I press the button manually on the amp to change FX Loop... no issues. The pedal is definitely sending some sort of mute command to the amp on FX Loop change. Weird.

 

[Krucifixtion]

Yeah to setup an amp mute patch you would just save a patch, while the amp is on standbye. I believe mine was set to just switch to the clean channel with no power amp on. So, yeah if everything is working on your amp there seems to be something funny happening with your footswitch. I would go through all your patches and re-save them all.

It's been so long since I did all my patches and my amp just sits at my drummers house, so I don't get to use it too much and I honestly have almost forgotten how to setup that stuff.

 

[D1m3b4g]

I'm not sure if this in any way helps, but restore all of your patches making SURE you leave your standby switch on..

You've nailed it, thanks so much.

I read up on the manual last night after what you wrote and it's absolutely true. Got out of bed at quarter to 2 with inspiration, reprogrammed and everything is fine. Total user error on my part.

If you program the patch when the amp is in standby it actually remembers this and mutes it again. Thanks a lot for all your help, it's now working properly

Paul

 

[adadglgmut]

Awesome man! I did that so many times before gigs and all that. For the longest time I just figured mine was broken too

 

[vanhendrix]

Nice! I'm glad that we have a happy ending dude. Every time I have something like this where I swear that the gear is malfunctioning....it has always been my own damn fault.

Either way, go shred some gnar.