Need help with levels and mixing with screen shot

[Umber _Metal]

So me and the band recorded our first in home recording with our new gear that we got, and I have alot of questions about levels, EQs, and mixing.

Our demo song is here and it's only The Hour of Truth.
Umber Music, Lyrics, Songs, and Videos

First off this is how we record.

Guitar>spiderIV30>line-in xenyx802r>FCA202>firewire PC

Bass>line-in xenyx802>FCA202>firewire PC

Same for vocals but with a mic instead of line in and monitored by a gemini PA system

So first in my quest for metal is the EQs. For recording my guitar there are, from what I can see, 3 EQs, the one on the amp, the mixer, and on fruity loops. What should I be setting these at if I want the tone I get just playing from my amp? I have been using my preset on my amp to the mixer and used the mixer EQ to get my guitar tone, should I be using the one on fruity loops after recording to make it better? And if so how?

On the bass my only problem is only being able to get an actual bass sound out of it where it sounds more like a bass frequency than a bass player hitting a string.

Now it's gonna get a little harder. The first picture is of the track. Track 1 is the MIDI drums then you can read the rest. Do these levels look correct? Should they be turned up further till it's almost completely filled in? Also is it better to get the track recorded loud then turning it down, or just finding a sweet spot?

In the second picture is while the track is playing and is more of a mixing question. I really don't know what I'm doing here besides making sure I can hear everything evenly, so any advice would be great. I tried to get everything to max level my thought was the louder the clearer, right?

I also put a compressor on the guitar bass and vocals going to the guide lines of "know lots about compression" I also put them on the midi drums.. was this a horrible idea?

Now for the MIDI drums, I hate to say but they are samples from another drum machine called rhythm rascal, until we finally get a real drummer I just need to make due with what I have until then. Is there any way to give it more of a punch? Maybe an EQ? How would I got about setting the EQ?

Thanks for bearing through this is you are willing to help me out! I'm sure I'll remember more later. We are new here so if I broke any rules or miss post I'm sorry. Keep it metal!

 

[Paulsh90]

First thing i noticed is that everything sounds mono? Did you do any panning at all? As in setting instruments to only come through the left or right channels? Id not you really should! Start by recording two guitar tracks. They need to be two different recorded tracks, so don't just copy and paste the one you already have, record another one. Then i'd set the panning something like:

Guitar Left: 100% left
Guitar Right: 100% right
Bass: Center
Vocals: Center
Snare: center
Kick: Center
Hi Hat: 15% L or R
OH: Mixture of a bout 40% L and R

Those can be some good starting points. I'm sure others might argue different settings but those should be a good starting point. If some of the drums don't sound quite right then mess around with them.

So first in my quest for metal is the EQs. For recording my guitar there are, from what I can see, 3 EQs, the one on the amp, the mixer, and on fruity loops. What should I be setting these at if I want the tone I get just playing from my amp? I have been using my preset on my amp to the mixer and used the mixer EQ to get my guitar tone, should I be using the one on fruity loops after recording to make it better? And if so how?

To get the tone you play from your amp, simple use the settings on your amp and don't add any EQ at any other stage. Simple as that. Although how is your line 6 getting to your computer? Are you using a mic? Sorry didn't quite get how it was working haha

For bass, trying using the TSE B.O.D v2.0 . Just add it as a plug in your bass track. Really nice (and free!) plug in.

As far as the volume levels, I generally don't like boosting anything above 0Db. If a particular instrument isn't loud enough, i'd always turn other stuff down rather than just ramp up the volume. You run the risk of everything starting to clip if you keep doing that, and you definitely don't want that! Others again might disagree though, that might just be me being weird haha

As far as the midi drums, i don't really have any experience with using them myself but i wouldn't bother messing around with them tooo much. At the end of the day they're still gonna sound like midi drums no matter what you do with them haha some EQ on the kick and snare might help, but apart from that i wouldn't bother too much.

Hope some of this helps! For more in depth information with some EQ/compression settings etc, try watching videos from this guy. His video's have helped me a lot over the years.

 

[Umber _Metal]

No, I haven't tried recording two and panning them. I'll give it a try. As far as how my guitar gets to my computer I'm plugged into my spider IV 30 watt amp then use the record out to line in to a mixer which has an EQ on it so I don't know how to set the mixer EQ. Then finally through HD audio recording device then fire wire into my computer. I have a mic and I can record guitar with it but it's just so much easier to do it with the record out jack.

Then the volume levels.. how do I know when I'm at 0Db? I usually just go by what my mixer says.

Thanks for the reply means alot man!

 

[Yo_Wattup]

I think your biggest issues are EQ and that line 6 amp. First of all, everything sound too trebly, theres to much cymbals in the mix, I can barely hear the kick, the bass is almost non-existant; everything sounds weak.

For bass, as Paulsh90 mentioned, TSE B.O.D. is the way to go IMO, it's free and sounds awesome, also, mix your bass louder!

For drums, turn the kick up (like way up), add some meat to the snare (boost at 150-250hz), and turn the cymbals down a bit. Also, I would get rid of the compression over the entire kit, and compress parts of the kit individually.

For guitars, I would ditch the spider altogether, and go for some free plugins like I mentioned in my thread (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/recording-studio/228363-feared-lra-mix-test.html#post3419542). There are plenty of tutorials on youtube of how to get some good tones out of those plugins. Also, I never use compression on distorted guitars, the distortion already sets them at roughly the same volume.

Good luck!

 

[Paulsh90]

Tbh i would just record direct into the FCA202. So you would have a cable going from your guitar straight into the line in on the FCA202, which then goes to your computer. Like where you say its easier to do it with the record out jack, it will be easier yet to just go direct in. It would probably get a better result as well tbh. You can use this video for a guide of what plug ins to use etc with this video for a more in depth look at h ow to use impulse responses for the cabinet simulator. I know its for a "Djent" tone, but can still use it as a guide of what to do. Has links in the description of the video for all the amp sims etc

As far as the volume levels on the mixer....i don't have any experience of using an external mixer...or fruity loops for that matter haha so i'm not the best person to ask for that...

EDIT: Looks like Yo_Wattup beat me to suggesting not using the spider haha free plug ins are the way to go when doing budget recordings though. Don't let the fact that the plug ins are free put you off. I used entirely free plug ins on the guitars for my version of Feared - Posessed

 

[Umber _Metal]

Thanks for the feed back guys it means alot. Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, day job and all. I'm going to give those plugins a look and see if I can find one.

My main reason for using the Line6 is that it has the mesa boogie preset in it and I don't have the money for a real mesa stack. Is there any way to get a mesa plug in or anything to that effect?

Yo-wattup for the drums they are just a midi set, if you already didn't know, they all have there own spot on the mixer so they are all compressed individually. The kick is just weak to start out with and doesn't have much of a punch, I'm trying to find a better sound out of what I have. Maybe throw an EQ on the kick?

paulish90 I have been straying away from free plug ins because everyone seems to bash them and say they give shitty quality but if your sound came from it they must be wrong. Still looking for that nice tone that a mesa can give, any advice on finding that?

As an noob recorder this is all VERY helpful to me. Thank you so much and keep it coming if you can. Good luck to you guys and if you want to put a link on here to your band or whatever you have going on. I would love to fan you!

 

[Prime]

Mesa = LECTO plugin

Use with LECAB... get impulse (ASEM RECTO V30).

You must record two separate guitar tracks and pan them left and right or it will sound like poop.

Get a drum VSTI. Ezdrummer w/metalmachine EZX is probably the least expensive and easiest to use.

TSE B.O.D is a good choice....but you could probably get away with just the DI and some EQ etc.

0db is too much!

 

[Paulsh90]

Thanks for the feed back guys it means alot. Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, day job and all. I'm going to give those plugins a look and see if I can find one.

My main reason for using the Line6 is that it has the mesa boogie preset in it and I don't have the money for a real mesa stack. Is there any way to get a mesa plug in or anything to that effect?

Yo-wattup for the drums they are just a midi set, if you already didn't know, they all have there own spot on the mixer so they are all compressed individually. The kick is just weak to start out with and doesn't have much of a punch, I'm trying to find a better sound out of what I have. Maybe throw an EQ on the kick?

paulish90 I have been straying away from free plug ins because everyone seems to bash them and say they give shitty quality but if your sound came from it they must be wrong. Still looking for that nice tone that a mesa can give, any advice on finding that?

As an noob recorder this is all VERY helpful to me. Thank you so much and keep it coming if you can. Good luck to you guys and if you want to put a link on here to your band or whatever you have going on. I would love to fan you!

No worries man, glad we can help. We are probably giving you an information overload which is probably pretty confusing haha it will all make sense in due time though

That's quite odd that you have herd bad things about free plugins, it's always been quite the opposite for me! Always hear nothing but good things about them! I originally started using line 6's pod farm as my guitar/cab sims, which i paid for. I have since stopped using it for a variety of free plugins and never looked back! Would definitely give them a try.

Like Prime said, use Lecto amp sim by LePou with God's cab impulses to get a mesa amp/cab combo.

Here's a list of freeware amp sims/impulse:

Amp Sims
LePou PLugins(you want the windows/mac VST options on the right)
TSE
Ignite Amps

Impluses
LeCab Impulse loader plugin used to load the impulses to get them to work!
Guitar Hacks
Redwirez (Has free sample but can also purchase some, highly rated)
Clark Kent Match EQ IR Collection

 

[Prime]

I honestly think you would get better help now and in the future if you used something like reaper as your DAW. I know there are at least a couple of people here that use Fruity...
but I am sure far many more use something like Reaper....which is free to use and fully functional.

If it turns out you like it...you should buy it. It costs 60 dollars.

But feel free to use it until you are sure you like it. Just my 2 cents.

I would help you out w/ the db thing...but don't know where to look in fruity.

 

[Umber _Metal]

It is alot but we made another demo. Not very proud of it. Guitars sound too far in the back but I used the spider again instead of the plugins so that might be why. Used Paramater EQ 2 on the guitars the TSE 808 on the bass, helped alot. If you wanna hear the new track use the link above.

 

[Umber _Metal]

I got all the plug ins now and I know it probably says in the video but right now I'm too lazy to watch it, but what order do they need to go? What comes first, second, ect..

 

[Prime]

TSE, Ampsim, Impusle Loader (cab). You will want to eq that around 80-100hz highpass and 12-8khz lowpass. After the stuff I listed before.

Just for starters.

 

[Yo_Wattup]

I got all the plug ins now and I know it probably says in the video but right now I'm too lazy to watch it, but what order do they need to go? What comes first, second, ect..

Guitar>interface>computer>gate>tube screamer plugin (although I don't use one with any guitar with emgs)>recto amp sim (although its a rectifier simulator, if find the lepou recto one of the hardest to dial in a good tone, le456 which is an engl simulator is much easier to use IMO)>Impulse loader (which is where you load up a simulated cab)>eq>out

That's how I get a basic metal tone any who...notice I dont use any compression on the dist guitar tone, I find it sounds much more natural that way.

Good luck

 

[Prime]

Gate? I don't need no stinkin gate though I do use a compressor.

Seriously, at that point it just becomes personal taste. I see lot's of hours invested in getting things sounded right for the OP.

May the force be with you!

 

[Yo_Wattup]

Seriously, at that point it just becomes personal taste. I see lot's of hours invested in getting things sounded right for the OP.

Exactly.

Biggest lesson I've learnt is that if you want your guitars to cut through the mix, the less bullshit the better. Bullshit may refer to: excessive high or low frequencies, too much compression, too much distortion, too much effects, more than 2 guitar tracks etc.

But then you've got bands like deftones and SOAD that quad track and have heaps of bass in their guitar mix, but they dont really play technical so cutting through isn't an issue...

Whatever you're going for... there's a million ways to do it... and none that are right or wrong.

 

[Paulsh90]

It is alot but we made another demo. Not very proud of it. Guitars sound too far in the back but I used the spider again instead of the plugins so that might be why. Used Paramater EQ 2 on the guitars the TSE 808 on the bass, helped alot. If you wanna hear the new track use the link above.

Well it definitely sounds better just by having the two guitar tracks now. If you plan on really getting into recording your own music i would seriously recommend getting some decent drums asap! I think there's going to be only so much you can do when using midi drums...I find drums have the biggest over all effect on the mix. Also if your programming them already then might as well get some that sound decent!

EzDrummer with the Metal Machine expansion kit i always recommend. It's easy to use and sounds fantastic.

A really worthy investment if you plan on regularly creating music!