Nerd stuff: I plotted all the Dimarzio humbucker DCR and mV values

[KnightBrolaire]

So yeah.. I got bored and decided to plot the correlation of DC resistance and output for every humbucker Dimarzio makes. I got all the values from their website. I may do similar graphs with the stacked single coils, etc if I get reallllly bored.

Anyways, the trend line and r value show a pretty poor correlation between DC resistance and output, which is to be expected based off my personal experience, and my rudimentary understanding of physics/Electrical engineering.

Caveman version of above: DCR not gud sign of how hot pickup is

 

[Stuck_in_a_dream]

Cool! Would it be ok to share the csv/Excel sheet of this data? Thanks!

 

[ExMachina]

I plotted DC R vs resonant peak freq, got an r2 of like .6ish.

Might be interesting to plot mV vs DC and wire gauge.

 

[narad]

would be cool to get the pickup names as labels on there

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Cool! Would it be ok to share the csv/Excel sheet of this data? Thanks!

uh sure, I have a google version of it up here but if you really want the excel version, then just DM me.

would be cool to get the pickup names as labels on there

There's 68 pickups plotted there. It'd be a nightmare in terms of readability tbh. If you're wondering what the massive outliers are, the x2n is hottest in mV, followed by the d activator bridge and d activator x bridge. The super 3 is the highest DCR, steve's special is the second highest DCR and tone zone is third.

 

[narad]

The super 3 is 25 Kohm!?

 

[KnightBrolaire]

The super 3 is 25 Kohm!?

yup

 

[KnightBrolaire]

I plotted DC R vs resonant peak freq, got an r2 of like .6ish.

Might be interesting to plot mV vs DC and wire gauge.

dimarzio doesn't reliably disclose wire gauge from what I've seen.



Here's a quick comparative output graph:

 

[odibrom]

dimarzio doesn't reliably disclose wire gauge from what I've seen.

... and hardly any brand ever will, that would be like delivering the recipe for their pickups. Many will even use different wire gauges in one pickup to tune up to their objectives and/or artists' needs. Brands will at most post all the possible reading values of their pickups...

 

[KnightBrolaire]

... and hardly any brand ever will, that would be like delivering the recipe for their pickups. Many will even use different wire gauges in one pickup to tune up to their objectives and/or artists' needs. Brands will at most post all the possible reading values of their pickups...

Wire gauge isn't a big trade secret like number of winds. If people are willing to pull off the cloth tape they can see what gauge is being used.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Here's a 7 and 8 string only plot:

Here's a comparative output plot for 7/8 string pickups:

and here's 6,7 and 8 string humbucker plot:

Aaand here's ALL of Dimarzio's pickups, including single coils. The R value drops even further, down to .1757, which helps reiterate the point that DCR and actual output of a pickup are not strongly related.

 

[odibrom]

Wire gauge isn't a big trade secret like number of winds. If people are willing to pull off the cloth tape they can see what gauge is being used.

Reverse engineering is easy on passive pickups, there aren't many parts involved, a bit of measurement and it's done.

My point was, knowing the wire gauge and DCRs implies how many winds are done, since these 3 values are directly related with each other, knowing 2 and one can find the 3rd (this is valid for only one type of wire used per coil)... and a missing factor would be the winding process, if "linear" or scattered (which also contributes to change the pickup's specs), but that is a pretty accessible information by just removing the cloth tape.

... and many brands will use more than one wire gauge per bobbin/pickup (to tune up to their objectives and/or artists needs and desires), therefore changing this simple measurement formula.

... this to say that I doubt very much any big brand will let got the wire type info that easily, but I could be mistaken...

 

[Hollowway]

Thanks for doing this, @KnightBrolaire, this is really cool!

So I guess the takeaway here is that the DCR isn't really anything we should consider when shopping for pickups - unless output is not known. Or is there an attribute to the DCR apart from that? Like, is there anything a high DCR will tell you about a pickup, other than a super loose correlation with output? I'm not aware of anything.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Thanks for doing this, @KnightBrolaire, this is really cool!

So I guess the takeaway here is that the DCR isn't really anything we should consider when shopping for pickups - unless output is not known. Or is there an attribute to the DCR apart from that? Like, is there anything a high DCR will tell you about a pickup, other than a super loose correlation with output? I'm not aware of anything.

Not output, but it seems to do more with tone IME. Higher winds means more mids and less highs. But even then it's not guaranteed. Like he said, the Steve's Special is one of DiMarzio's highest-wound pickups in terms of DCR, but it's a scooped and bright pickup because of them using different winds on each bobbin.

Apparently inductance (Henries) is a more reliable measure to use, or at least used in tandem with other readings.

 

[Emperoff]

DCR is also very dependent on the wire gauge used. Thinner gauges have increased resistance as the wind count is higher.

Take for example the Seymour Duncan JB vs. Pegasus. People refer to it as a less hot JB and that has not been my experience at all. Let's take a quick look:

- JB: 18.8k DCR, 44AWG
- Pegasus: 16.6k DCR, 43AWG

So in real world use they're both about the same output. In fact I'd swear the Pegasus had more output until I swapped the A5 magnet of the JB for an A8.

 

[ExMachina]

Thanks for doing this, @KnightBrolaire, this is really cool!

So I guess the takeaway here is that the DCR isn't really anything we should consider when shopping for pickups - unless output is not known. Or is there an attribute to the DCR apart from that? Like, is there anything a high DCR will tell you about a pickup, other than a super loose correlation with output? I'm not aware of anything.

DCR has a pretty strong correlation with resonant peak. The frequency of the resonant peak and the q factor essentially determine the tone of the pickup.

A good plot might be DCR vs the treble in their tone chart

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Thanks for doing this, @KnightBrolaire, this is really cool!

So I guess the takeaway here is that the DCR isn't really anything we should consider when shopping for pickups - unless output is not known. Or is there an attribute to the DCR apart from that? Like, is there anything a high DCR will tell you about a pickup, other than a super loose correlation with output? I'm not aware of anything.

DCR can give you a verrry loose idea of its tone as Exmachina and Jazzhands mentioned. For example, the Super 3 has a very high DCR and feels very fat/muddy. The steve's special is bright and scooped. The Dsonic has comparable output to the steve's special but much lower DC resistance, and a completely different tone.
That's not always a guarantee though. If they use thinner gauge wire wound to a very high DCR then it becomes a less useful indicator. A perfect example is the Elysian Hellfire bridge. The one I have clocks in at 29kOhms but never gets muddy due to using much thinner gauge wire than typical.


In my experience DC resistance is one of the most useless metrics for pickup specs. DCR just hangs around because people can easily measure it and record it imo.

Gauging output amongst brands is super difficult but I think Guitar Pickup Database is slowly gathering the actual objective output of non-dimarzios.

Millivolts and Henries are considered the typical units for measuring inductance/"output" in a circuit.
The real issue for guitarists is that there is no standardization of output testing among brands besides Lace and Dimarzio.

 

[Noisy Humbucker]

I’ve found the mV to actually be helpful when choosing a pickup, whereas anymore I all but ignore the DCIR. That said, I’ve concluded that DiMarzio is my go-to brand (though I still use many others), and that when it comes to bridge pickups I live for the 350mV to 400mV range.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

Even this is still very much overly simplified, as impedance changes with frequency input, magnet type, wind, wire gauge, and pole type. Dimarzio's measurements are proprietary as well I've measured the impedance across the frequency range of some of my pickups and it's pretty interesting information, though I haven't been able to turn it into truly usable data just yet.

One of the reasons manufacturers don't talk about wire gauge is it just adds confusion for customers. Most people have no idea why 42AWG is different from 44AWG, they just want the basics of how a pickup sounds. I list that sort of thing pretty regularly, but it doesn't really help customers make a decision, generally.

Here's a graph I put together of impedance in H (left axis) vs frequency in hz (bottom axis) with 4 different magnet types on the same pickup.

 

[crushingpetal]

Thanks @KnightBrolaire ! I'm way out of my element here, but this stuff is cool!

Q: could publishing DCR at least help you tell if you've received a properly functioning pickup?