Nerd stuff: I plotted all the Dimarzio humbucker DCR and mV values

[ElysianGuitars]

Thanks @KnightBrolaire ! I'm way out of my element here, but this stuff is cool!

Q: could publishing DCR at least help you tell if you've received a properly functioning pickup?

Sort of, but things like temperature of the pickup and variations in winding can also cause fluctuations in DCR. I've seen pickups fresh out of wax potting, sitting at 150F get nearly double the DCR they get when room temperature. All that to say, don't expect DCR to always be exactly what is on a website.

If you have very low DCR on a coil, or very high, yeah you can use that to figure out if you have a bad pickup.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Thanks @KnightBrolaire ! I'm way out of my element here, but this stuff is cool!

Q: could publishing DCR at least help you tell if you've received a properly functioning pickup?

yep. It's an easy way to verify if it's functioning, but Elysian covered the variables that can influence the reading.

 

[Hollowway]

Hmm, given what you guys are saying, what WOULD be the best specs to list for choosing a pickup? Obviously we want to know output, because that will drive the amp. And then we want to know what sort of EQ it's putting out.

I'll admit that I'm not super into buying and swapping out pickups routinely. I have some that I like, but I don't continually churn them, because it seems that I can accomodate a lot of different pups with adjustments to the rest of the signal chain. But I'm still curious what would be good specs to list that AREN'T variable, based on temperature, etc.

 

[ExMachina]

I think freq response and overall output are basically it. I'll let one of these experts comment though.

For me, the effect of a pedal is just so much larger than a pickup. Maybe If you want to be really efficient you can find that pickup that lets you remove the boost or EQ on the frontend. I guess I'm just not super "picky" about pickups.

 

[Edika]

Strength of magnet plays a big role in the output and the type somewhat on the frequency response. A thick magnet vs a normal size will give a boost in output. Depending on the pickup though it might have a positive or a negative effect and that will depend on gauge wire, pole pieces, how the pickup is wound etc etc. I have some mofels of the Omega pickups (not active anymore) which would have mostly Alnico 5 magnets with Cermamic flanker. I replaced the Alnico 5 with a Ceramic and then an Alnico 8 and was a bump in output and other frequencies boosted. I also tried a thick Ceramic and thick Ceramic flanker and it was just too much and they were muddier like that. But the Black Winter for example has a similar DCR and thick Ceramic center magnets and flank magnets and its tight, regardless of the high output.

Quite a few Dimarzio have low DCR and thick Ceramic magnets and have high output. The newer Seymour Dumcans seem to have thick magnets too and I also felt the Pegasus is not lacking output, even if its advertised as such. It's not as aggressive as the Nazgul but it still is hooot.

 

[odibrom]

I'm by no means an expert, but I feel that DCR values give us a hint on the compression feel of the pickup and therefore a hint on the pickup's EQ response. Lower DCR will feel less compressed and more open sounding.

However, let's not forget that 99% of the times we are testing pickups through volume and tone pot&caps and these filter the pickups' real tone specs a lot.

 

[Emperoff]

Hmm, given what you guys are saying, what WOULD be the best specs to list for choosing a pickup? Obviously we want to know output, because that will drive the amp. And then we want to know what sort of EQ it's putting out.

A frequency chart similar to those manufacturers list for speakers. But pickup manufacturers don't do it because then they wouldn't be able to sell you pickups with their favourite buzzwords like "clarity", "string definition", "tightness", dynamics", "headroom", etc.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

A frequency chart similar to those manufacturers list for speakers. But pickup manufacturers don't do it because then they wouldn't be able to sell you pickups with their favourite buzzwords like "clarity", "string definition", "tightness", dynamics", "headroom", etc.

"This gives you clarity, definition, and string separation!"

"...doesn't that seem redundant?"

"shut up and give me money"

 

[ElysianGuitars]

A frequency chart similar to those manufacturers list for speakers. But pickup manufacturers don't do it because then they wouldn't be able to sell you pickups with their favourite buzzwords like "clarity", "string definition", "tightness", dynamics", "headroom", etc.

Those kind of charts are difficult to do on a pickup, I've tried various things but never gotten anything I'm totally happy with. The inductance chart above is the closest I've gotten, but then you have the guitar as a variable, if a guitar is putting out less amplitude at a certain frequency then a frequency response chart won't really do you much good. There's too many variables in a guitar, and even in a player, to make those kinds of charts that useful. Guitar tone is pretty complex.

 

[Zhysick]

I remember when EMG had those graphics in their website. You had to download them, I think old pickups had them in paper also... EMG and DiMarzio used to be the best describing the properties of their pickups but now I guess it is only DiMarzio and I don't hear that the representation is that good...

 

[Lemonbaby]

Hmm, given what you guys are saying, what WOULD be the best specs to list for choosing a pickup? Obviously we want to know output, because that will drive the amp. And then we want to know what sort of EQ it's putting out.

Amps are driven by current which doesn't necessarily correlate with the absolute peak output voltage. A pickup with high mV reading but very low current drive won't sound as distorted as a lower output PU driving a lot of current (e.g. active pickups). The attack phase basically is closer to the trail when the current's not dropping quickly, often erroneously called "compression".

 

[owlexifry]

Amps are driven by current which doesn't necessarily correlate with the absolute peak output voltage. A pickup with high mV reading but very low current drive won't sound as distorted as a lower output PU driving a lot of current (e.g. active pickups). The attack phase basically is closer to the trail when the current's not dropping quickly, often erroneously called "compression".

interesting points..
i wonder how much of these differences would be nullified when running into a boost/overdrive before an amp. i.e. would the input/output buffers of a drive pedal not match these differing output impedances anyway?

 

[lost_horizon]

The super 3 is 25 Kohm!?

Mine was 28.7

 

[narad]

That's crazy to me because I never thought it was marketed that way. I remember something like the WCR IronMan, the entire adcopy reads about the massive power. The super 3 description is like, your regular ol' super distortion with more mids.

 

[gunch]

super 3 into a metal zone is probably out of this world good but we wouldn't know

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

I fucked with the Super 3 a lot and it's not over-the-top output. It's about on par with a Super Distortion yeah, but with a tighter low end and more mids.
Just goes to show you can't go solely by DCR for output.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

super 3 into a metal zone is probably out of this world good but we wouldn't know

more like mud city

 

[Jamiecrain]

Now what would be a fascinating experiment would be a blind test of all listed pickups, installed in the same guitar, to see if there is any tonal correlation to the DCR/mV chart. I'm guessing the R value would be low!

 

[Purelojik]

So what would make for a Clear, articulate, fast tracking pickup with a thicc bottom end that's defined but full and a midrange that's musical yet balanced and high end that's not shrill or ice picky ?

im trolling here

seriously cool graph @KnightBrolaire , I saw you post this over on IG and was like damn this is interesting. Looking to hear more people chime in as well.

 

[diogoguitar]

Dimarzio is the only manufacturer that makes it very clear that DC resistance may not have much relationship with hotness

HS-3 is a vintage output pickup, but its specs make it look like it's very hot:

Wiring: 4 Conductor
Magnet: Alnico 5
Resistance: 23.72 Kohm

(except that the mV thing is much lower than many other pickups)
I love this pickup though. It's awesome