Nergal VS Christians!!!! (Pro-Nergal)

[DrakkarTyrannis]

I remember a while back some political cartoons were printed in a Danish newspaper that caused riots in several countries.

Let's face it, if he did this to the Torah or Quran there'd be a shitstorm. That's why a lot of these artists attack christianity more than any other. It's like beating up the kid who never fights back.

Look..don't start that Muslim crap. EVERYTIME a thread like this surfaces, some Christian quickly scapegoats to Islam. Considering that Christianity has been the most destructive religion throughout history, which do you think will ruffle more feathers? Afterall most Americans didn't even know what the hell a Muslim was until 9/11 and even now they still don't know..all they know is stereotypes which they seem to think go for all Muslims.

Having said that, I have no issue with Christianity so don't think I'm throwing stones..just stating what is. Secondly Nergal should have known better..isn't he Polish? I'm sure he knew the law and if he did then it was stupid for him to do what he did UNLESS he didn't mind the consequence of his actions. That's really what it boils down to..and especially as a Satanist he should have known better.

 

[devil]

As someone said earlier, nergal does this at every show. In most places he faces no consequences for any of his actions, in places like poland he gets in trouble briefly.

Its not exactly hurting his career to get this kind of publicity is it?

Do you think his record company is telling him to stop this or else hell sell too many records?

Also: there are completely different laws in poland. Freedom of speech does not exist like it does in america, and innocent until proven guilty does not apply AT ALL.

Hes not fully entitled to do so...obviously. Its pretty much common sense to check the laws before you break them.

Unitas is right - if he did tear up Quran it would be alot worse. Simply because muslims are the hot topic right now, and they have a helluva lot more violent tendencys right now.


I think it would be pretty impressive right now to do something like that, because you know if you piss off the muslim community, someone is going to come after you guaranteed.

Tearing up a bible is so 1998 its just stupid that this even gets attention at all, which is why he does it if you havnt noticed.

If you saw this happen in america would you even think twice? In fact Id probably judge him on the way he did it and rate him on offensiveness.

 

[MorbidTravis]

to be completely honest, i think it is a ridiculous law. BUT the bible is a sacred book to the largest religion on earth. Even if there are 23 billion copies of it, it doesnt make it any less special. It'd be the same as ripping up the torah, or Kor'ran(i dont know how to spell it, and im about to leave)

Its kind of like the westboro baptists protesting soldiers funerals, only they can get away with it.

 

[Evil7]

well put Devil..

 

[Demiurge]

I remember a while back some political cartoons were printed in a Danish newspaper that caused riots in several countries.

Let's face it, if he did this to the Torah or Quran there'd be a shitstorm. That's why a lot of these artists attack christianity more than any other. It's like beating up the kid who never fights back.

Good point, but it really doesn't support the "at least Islam is crazier" argument. It's all relative to who has the bully pulpit- if you blaspheme a religion with adherents linked to terrorist activity, you could be targeted by terrorists (as with the Danish newspaper), while if you blaspheme a religion with the government in their pocket, you could be targeted by the state (as seen here). Both prospects are incredibly disturbing, but I think the latter is still more frightening.

Terrorism is scary, sure, but it's an attempt to act with authority outside of government oversight (theoretically). No need for terrorism when the government will punish your enemies for you.

 

[unitas]

Look..don't start that Muslim crap. EVERYTIME a thread like this surfaces, some Christian quickly scapegoats to Islam.

Actually I wasn't scapegoating to islam, someone said that if he did that to a quran he'd be dead. Someone responded to the contrary and all I pointed out was that when muslim sensibilities are offended even in a similarly benign way that there is much more of a chance of a hostile retaliation than when christianity is insulted. I don't think he'd be dead, but it wouldn't have been met with silence, either.

Considering that Christianity has been the most destructive religion throughout history,

It can be argued that Atheism was the most destructive philosophy in the 20th century, your point? People do bad things. No matter what religion or philosophy someone chooses there is still personal responsibility. If we blame philosphies for their followers' actions (even if the philosophy or religion dictates otherwise) then no philosophy is safe. Not christianity, not atheism, not satanism. I do not blame satanism for the church burnings of the 90's, I blame the people who did them. Same goes for Cortez or Ferdinand or whoever else.

Secondly Nergal should have known better..isn't he Polish? I'm sure he knew the law and if he did then it was stupid for him to do what he did UNLESS he didn't mind the consequence of his actions. That's really what it boils down to..and especially as a Satanist he should have known better.

That's my point, and yes he is Polish so he knows what he was doing was against the law. I'm not endorsing the law in any way, just saying that he knew the law and chose to break it.

 

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Actually I wasn't scapegoating to islam, someone said that if he did that to a quran he'd be dead. Someone responded to the contrary and all I pointed out was that when muslim sensibilities are offended even in a similarly benign way that there is much more of a chance of a hostile retaliation than when christianity is insulted. I don't think he'd be dead, but it wouldn't have been met with silence, either.



It can be argued that Atheism was the most destructive philosophy in the 20th century, your point? People do bad things. No matter what religion or philosophy someone chooses there is still personal responsibility. If we blame philosphies for their followers' actions (even if the philosophy or religion dictates otherwise) then no philosophy is safe. Not christianity, not atheism, not satanism. I do not blame satanism for the church burnings of the 90's, I blame the people who did them. Same goes for Cortez or Ferdinand or whoever else.



That's my point, and yes he is Polish so he knows what he was doing was against the law. I'm not endorsing the law in any way, just saying that he knew the law and chose to break it.

And my point still stands. It wasn't about blaming Christianity..it's the fact that people have done more underhanded work in the name of Jehovah than Allah, so it would seem to me that you'd have more people against Christianity since it has a longer track record. It's not just about being controversial..he's acting against the religion he feels strongly about. Not to mention that I doubt the Taliban or Muslims in general would be all that up in arms over a man I'm sure lots of them have never even heard of, and him tearing up Muslim sacred text wouldn't really get him anywhere. He wouldn't tear up such a thing because Islam doesn't effect him in the way Christianity does.

And let's take into consideration that these are extremist Muslims we're talking about..which is a small portion of Islam. They have bigger fish to fry, and on the opposite hand the Christians against Nergal are a good majority, a majority which happens to have a foot in the door of the government of that land, which would cause more problems.

In short, he's doing it because of what he feels he and his music stands for, and of course there's controversy with it but such a thing comes with the territory. I fail to see what Muslims have to do with this because it's an irrelevant factor. He's not talking about Islam. Not to mention if he really wanted to stir things up, Christianity's the way to go as the religion is larger and he wouldn't stand to gain as much recognition going on an Anti-Islam campaign..so both ways Islam isn't even a factor and I don't really know why they get dragged into these types of conversations when they have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Paulfocused]

Nergal is has been spitting in christianity's face for years, why the hell do they want to do something about it now? It's a part of his message for freedom as he has clearly stated numerous times. He has never once harmed anyone, and ripping a book with so many followers (despite holding hateful passages) is obviously bold. Though, I don't see the problem. A peaceful and intelligent man like Nergal doesn't deserve prison. And some of us fans want to see him in live performances (and hear his music). If I have to, I'll go Rambo on those judges' asses.

 

[7 Dying Trees]

in 500 years, when we all worship the 8 armed astral being Zod, we'll all look back at this as barbaric false idol worship and laugh.

 

[Paulfocused]

in 500 years, when we all worship the 8 armed astral being Zod, we'll all look back at this as barbaric false idol worship and laugh.

lol, if you're referring to General Zod (the only Zod I've heard of) then BOW BEFORE ZOD!!!!!!!! I've always been a Batman guy anyway. Superman can rot in his own immortality for all I care. Red tights are fucking lame.

 

[unitas]

it's the fact that people have done more underhanded work in the name of Jehovah than Allah, so it would seem to me that you'd have more people against Christianity since it has a longer track record.

And I agree, but still we must differentiate what drives a person to do bad things, the philosophy or rather the want for power or wealth using a philosophy or religion as a convenient excuse. I'm with the latter.

And let's take into consideration that these are extremist Muslims we're talking about..which is a small portion of Islam. They have bigger fish to fry, and on the opposite hand the Christians against Nergal are a good majority, a majority which happens to have a foot in the door of the government of that land, which would cause more problems.

In today's context that slim minority of Muslim extremists is more dangerous than the Catholic majority in Poland. Christians don't fight back the way Muslims do. They're easy targets, imho.

Not to mention if he really wanted to stir things up, Christianity's the way to go as the religion is larger and he wouldn't stand to gain as much recognition going on an Anti-Islam campaign.

At least among his peers, agreed. Although those that criticize islam don't get recognition per se as you put it, take Geert Wilders for example. Criticizing christianity gains you brownie points, recognition in the genre and an appeal to like-minded fans. Criticizing islam in the context of european metal gains well, nothing really.

 

[Hellbound]

in 500 years, when we all worship the 8 armed astral being Zod, we'll all look back at this as barbaric false idol worship and laugh.

He speaks the truth!

 

[JerkyChid]

 

[Waelstrum]

It can be argued that Atheism was the most destructive philosophy in the 20th century.

Just wondering how do you measure such destruction? As far as I'm aware (and I may be missing some major point) no one has killed in the name of Atheism to the same degree that Palestine and Israel are fighting over holy land, or Protestants and Catholics fought in Ireland, or Christians bombing abortion clinics.I'm not saying that everyone of these religions is going to kill because of their faith, and these are loud minorities in comparison to the peaceful majority of the believers, but can you show any instances of Athiest driven violence?

 

[minusthemonkey]

Just wondering how do you measure such destruction? As far as I'm aware (and I may be missing some major point) no one has killed in the name of Atheism to the same degree that Palestine and Israel are fighting over holy land, or Protestants and Catholics fought in Ireland, or Christians bombing abortion clinics.I'm not saying that everyone of these religions is going to kill because of their faith, and these are loud minorities in comparison to the peaceful majority of the believers, but can you show any instances of Athiest driven violence?

You mean outside of Soviet Russia?

Look, before the shit storm falls upon me, I'm not a fan of organized religion, and don't argue the simple reality that historically Christianity, well, okay, religion in general, has been the rationalization for most of the atrocities throughout written history. Simple fact is even if you take the idea of gods out of the equation, the blind adherence of the mob to any "faith", be it religious in nature or philosophical, can lead to atrocities.

Anyway, Nergal wasn't ripping up "some book". It is a symbol to a whole hell of a lot of people. Symbols mean a lot to some. Honestly, I don't give a crap what he did. I means nothing to me. It was intentionally inflammatory to those that do find meaning in the bible.

That said, it's a performance art piece. He didn't rape anyone, he didn't kill anyone and he didn't rob anyone. He made a statement. Charging him with a crime is ludicrous, but I wonder if I'd feel the same way if he did a Nazi salute and piss on the torah.

 

[behemoth91]

jesus the polish government needs to get with the fucking times. god i hate the polish government. HAIL BEHEMOTH MAY NERGAL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY!!!

 

[jymellis]

ok this is a pretty easy fix.
nergal-what bible? it was a fucking prop you idiots. prove it was real, it was a prop, i was actually ripping up "little house on the praire"

 

[behemoth91]

ok this is a pretty easy fix.
nergal-what bible? it was a fucking prop you idiots. prove it was real, it was a prop, i was actually ripping up "little house on the praire"

yea ive seen him do it before, its actually just blank pages. and fuck whats so sacred about a bunch of words thats mass produced?

 

[jymellis]

even if they werent blank and he did rip a bible (didnt ozzy do that in the 80s ?). its 3 years ago. prove it wasnt bearnstein bears mofakkas.

 

[ralphy1976]

funny...when i say that title i thought of the wife of a friend of mine...NERGAL, from kazakhstan....not sure she could rip a bible in half consider she is rather short...and heavily pregnant now...oh boy...