New Headless Multiscale Zeus Basses from Kiesel

[Grand Moff Tim]

I feel like most of the people that think a bass should have longer than a 35 inch scale have never played a bass with a 36 inch scale. The first fret is like 4 inches wide.

I own a 33-36" multiscale six string.

The reason I say it should have longer than 35 for the B isn't because I think bass should have longer than 35, but rather because the point of a multiscale is to be able to have a longer B without having to have an overly long G or C. The G on a 35" 5 string is just fine, as the many 35" straight scale basses can attest to.

If someone wants a 35" B, there's no good reason to get a multiscale when a straight scale will work just fine. If they wanted a 36"+ B, though, a straight scale wouldn't be ideal, because the thinner strings start to suffer a bit at that scale, IMO. That's when something like a 33-36 or 34-37 multiscale is a good option.

I mean, fair play to people who actually want this, I suppose. If you don't like 35" G or C for whatever reason, this is optimal. For what it's worth, I don't think a bass needs to be long scale to get a nice sounding B. I have a straight scale 33" 5 string, and it sounds great. I'm just not entirely sold on multiscales that aren't at least 35.5", I guess, haha.

 

[LordCashew]

Sure didn't see this coming...

Very cool to see, but it begs the question of if the seven string bass crowd is bigger than the 37" scale bass crowd.

 

[LordCashew]

For what it's worth, I've heard a fair number of folks say they are "MM style" pickups in appearance only.

This is somewhat true. I would say there's some similarity in the attack and overall voicing, but the Carvin/Kiesel pickups are more neutral than actual MMs in my experience. Less clank (even if positioned closer to the bridge), but more midrange and overall clarity. It's also worth noting that the preamps in MusicMan basses are a pretty important component in their sound and those are obviously absent from the Kiesel equation. Even among MusicMan basses there are some pretty obvious sonic differences - Bongos and Stingrays, for example, only sound partially alike despite having visually similar pickups.

I actually find the Kiesel HBs to be quite good pickups, though to me they seem to be at their best passive or with pres other than Carvin/Kiesel OEM.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Sure didn't see this coming...

Very cool to see, but it begs the question of if the seven string bass crowd is bigger than the 37" scale bass crowd.

As long as they're adding a high string rather than another low one, the shorter fan I was complaining about before suddenly makes more sense . The 35" will be fine for the low B, and the shorter scale on the treble side will be much better for a higher, thinner string.

Nice save, Kiesel.

 

[iron blast]

Is this real 7 string kiesel?

 

[spudmunkey]

Is this real 7 string kiesel?

Yes. The model is even up on their web site. 33.2 - 35" scale.

 

[spudmunkey]

BEADGCF

Apparently it was specifically for the bass player from Veil of Maya.

 

[A-Branger]

meh 35" is perfect for a lowB. This bass is to be kept in B standard or higher (DropB, DropC). even a dropA could work more than fine. Which cover most bass ranges.

but I do agree they should have gone a bit longer to appeal to the dj0nt kids who are already hooked on the brand by their guitars

...still waiting for the first Dj0nt band with an 40"-ish electric double bass

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

meh 35" is perfect for a lowB. This bass is to be kept in B standard or higher (DropB, DropC). even a dropA could work more than fine. Which cover most bass ranges.

but I do agree they should have gone a bit longer to appeal to the dj0nt kids who are already hooked on the brand by their guitars

...still waiting for the first Dj0nt band with an 40"-ish electric double bass

Again, nobody is saying 35" isn't good for low B. That's not the issue with the scales on the Kiesel at all. 35" is fine for B, and it's also fine for EADG. The purpose of a multiscale is to resolve tension/gauge/balance issues when you want to either go lower than B or higher than G (or both!). That 35" that's perfect for B isn't so perfect for high C or low F#. Not impossible or unusable, certainly, but not ideal.

It's not about appealing to the "djont kids," it's about making an instrument that makes sense. I don't djent at all with my 33-36". Last time I took it out on a gig was for a Jazz show. You're right in a sense, though, in that I suspect the only reason they're making a multiscale bass at all is to appeal to the trend-hoppers, who only want one because that's what the internet tells them they should want, rather than because they've done any thinking about it to come to a sensible conclusion about what they actually need.

If you want a 35" low B 4 or 5 string, just get a straight scale. Easy peasy. More affordable, more options, less wait. You can use a straight scale 5 for going a bit lower, too, sure. You can use a 34" or 33" if you want to go higher. If you want to do those things with ideal tension and sensible gauges, though, find a multiscale with scales that make sense. That's the complaint here. Not "hur dur, I can't B on 35, derp."

 

[A-Branger]

I know, but so far most comments (or the impression I got from them), was that it should have been longer than 35 for a good B and de-tune stuff, and that a 35/33" makes no sense. A lot of people tend to think that "multiscale" should be used for extreme downtunings only. When it actually makes sense to standard tunings too (this also applies to guitar). Its the even tension (and a gauge drop on the lower string) and ergonomics that makes multiscale sense.

I recon a 36/34" would have made better sense for Kiesel. A good balance of multiscale, extra inch on the low for those who want to go lower, or drop couple of gauges for their B, but not too long for a more comfortable playing.

 

[Hollowway]

Multiscale on guitar helps both low and high end for 8s, 9s, etc. But on a bass, I'm not sure that there are too many people complaining about the higher strings sounding brittle, or ice pickish. So making the multiscale on the high end, instead of the low end, doesn't make much sense to me, either. This seems to be multiscale for the purpose of being multiscale, rather than specifically correcting a problem. You can get balanced tension on straight or multiscale by choosing the strings that would achieve that. But I think it's well documented in the ERB community that a longer low end helps the tone of the B (or lower) string. I understand that the VoM bassist wanted that specific model, but I also think Dingwall has pretty much proven that people dig 37" B strings. The really crazy ones of us go for the 37-40" Quake, and the B on that sounds GODLY.

Anyway, I guess I'm just wondering if there's someone out there that says, "Finally! A bass with a 33.5" G!" I've never heard anyone complain about a 35" bass being too long for the high string(s).

 

[spudmunkey]

Perhaps a part of it is comfort? The Zeus is already single cut, meaning the bass will hang so that the nut is further away to begin with when passing with a strap.. and with the longer scale used for the low strings if it were a straight scale, that first fret would seemingly feel less it was a mile away.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Anyway, I guess I'm just wondering if there's someone out there that says, "Finally! A bass with a 33.5" G!" I've never heard anyone complain about a 35" bass being too long for the high string(s).

Maybe not the G, but certainly for the C on a sixer or a high-C fiver. Even then, I think 33" is still better than 33.5" would be. I don't even really like the high C on a standard 34" scale six, and I'm not sure half an inch would help it much. The 33" C on my sixer is nice, though.

 

[TheEmptyCell]

Multiscale on guitar helps both low and high end for 8s, 9s, etc. But on a bass, I'm not sure that there are too many people complaining about the higher strings sounding brittle, or ice pickish. So making the multiscale on the high end, instead of the low end, doesn't make much sense to me, either. This seems to be multiscale for the purpose of being multiscale, rather than specifically correcting a problem. You can get balanced tension on straight or multiscale by choosing the strings that would achieve that. But I think it's well documented in the ERB community that a longer low end helps the tone of the B (or lower) string. I understand that the VoM bassist wanted that specific model, but I also think Dingwall has pretty much proven that people dig 37" B strings. The really crazy ones of us go for the 37-40" Quake, and the B on that sounds GODLY.

Anyway, I guess I'm just wondering if there's someone out there that says, "Finally! A bass with a 33.5" G!" I've never heard anyone complain about a 35" bass being too long for the high string(s).

I complain about it all the time. G and C sound like ass on a 35” or longer scale. Thin, ganky, unpleasant. Now it’s easy to buy balanced tension strings, but this wasn’t true several years ago. I’m actually a little disappointed they didn’t go shorter on the high end with the 7 string, because that brings you one step closer to finding a wound string that’ll work for the high F. That said, my experiment with 7 strings is over. Cool, but not for me.

 

[spudmunkey]

 

[I play music]

I don't get why they chose a single cut shape which does not balance so well for that multi scale 7 string. One would think something with a long upper horn would be the best choice.

 

[spudmunkey]

A longer upper horn would change where it hangs on your body. I assume he does a lot of tapping, so perhaps having the bridgw and pickup area shifted a little bit over is conducive to his playing style.

 

[A-Branger]

why they picked a single cut?

because thats what they though looked best and decided to make available first. Having the Vader maybe they wanted to go with the Zeus first for something different, and later if it sells well they would do the Osiris

Theres no conspiracy of bass hanging positions or playing style or whatever. It simply "looks cool"

 

[Hollowway]

I complain about it all the time. G and C sound like ass on a 35” or longer scale. Thin, ganky, unpleasant. Now it’s easy to buy balanced tension strings, but this wasn’t true several years ago. I’m actually a little disappointed they didn’t go shorter on the high end with the 7 string, because that brings you one step closer to finding a wound string that’ll work for the high F. That said, my experiment with 7 strings is over. Cool, but not for me.

Well, I stand corrected. I will agree with you about the fan, though. On 7 strings we could take a huge fan. But, I guess they’re in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. A larger fan would turn some people off as well.

 

[ixlramp]

Nice 7, and it's useful for helping a wound F not break.

According to other posters, Jeff wants customers to be able to use standard strings

There are many widely available strings that have a 38" winding, like D'Addario Super Longs, that enables a 36" scale. The multiscale basses using 35.5" recognise this. So it's a little disappointing.