New Song Help - Epic prog

[KingAenarion]

So...

Saturated Vocals no Piano by JamesDevlin on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

First song done in my New fandangled Studio for my band Ex Curia.

This is the 2nd draft of the song. What I'm looking for is comments on the structuring, parts, themes.

What I am not looking for is comments on the mix... this mix is as rough as anal sex without lube. Also please not that most of the parts are rough versions to get ideas. The guitar solos in particular

This is still missing Piano. Our Pianist (who's an absolute freak) was playing some stuff the other day, but only in the first few minutes of the song. So I decided not to add it to this mix... this also allow you to hear better what is going on in the song..

So I really want comments on the song as a whole. Are there any parts that make you go

Or perhaps

Or


Or


But hopefully more along the lines of

As a bit of context. This is supposed to be the last song on the album we are writing. It is musically and lyrically a bit of a mish mash of the other songs on the album. Particularly the vocal ending which is vocal lines from multiple songs layered over one another.

I can post up the lyrics for the rest of the album if anyone is interested.

 

[Kurkkuviipale]

Nice shit man...

Vocals lines could be less 'straight' in the verses (blood in my ears, etc). By this I'm referring to the complexity of the vocal lines, which is really, really boring. (NOT melody-vice)

Didn't like the growls, but I'm a growlhater anyways so that's not totally objective.

Lead line @ 2.00 could be an octave lower. It sounds really harsh. That or atleast do it in octaves.

7:12... the acoustic part is awesome, but bluesy licks are not tight enough. They're a bit loud as well.

8:05. There's a part you could easily make more interesting by some br000tz pitch dives (with bending the non-picked strings when using a floyd rose). The vocals in the next part could have more interesting rhythms as well.

I mean... they all go like you were singing in some marching session. More down-beat and complex rhythms and it's gonna sound a lot more mature.

9:45 chromatic fifths doesn't work for me.

The choir + acoustic part is just phenomenal.

Just fucking phenomenal.

But please don't end it like that. It would have 400x more impact if you ended it on for example "all for one" and leaving the last "one for one" out. That ending is simply just lame and so expected.

Overall. Healthy and works like hell.

 

[KingAenarion]

I think we wanted to really go for that kind of constant hypnotic feel at the start... It was supposed to be like that bit at the start of Karnivool's Deadman... really straight... but maybe we need to give the pattern itself more variation.

I'll experiment with the lead line an octave lower. It sounds a lot less harsh with the piano line that goes over the top.

The blues solo was just a bit of mucking around

Not sure what you mean at 8:05... examples?

The vocal lines at 8:40 are kind of supposed to be the opposite to the next bit where the guitars are just constant quavers... But I get what you're saying about the lines. They feel very straight.

The "Chromatic 5ths" bit is one of those bits from another song that gets these really lush chords with the Piano...

Is it the ending Held chord that's the issue. Because If that's the case It will probably sound less lame when it does what it's supposed to do and crescendo with a massive organ sound back into the beginning of the first track which also has choir and starts with a nice big Dm chord. The idea being to bookend the whole thing like that.

But if you think the chord is lame, perhaps we'll play around with some other ideas.

 

[Kurkkuviipale]

8:05... bulb, new groove. SoundClick artist: Bulb - Hello! I am Bulb! Enjoy the tunes! 1:03. Just to give the idea of it. The fundamental point in my saying was to make the annoying simple zero after zero would go a bit more interesting with minor changes.

About the ending... the whole choir stuff is completely amazing, but I think that the album ending would be really powerful if you went like "All for one... One for one... all for one... one for one... all for one!"

If you have ideas to continue the song (or make it a circle), then I don't have any comments to the ending, but awesome!

 

[KingAenarion]

Oh I get what you mean...

Yea there's more happening there with Piano layering over the top... but you're right, it needs to be more interesting

Funnily enough, another Deadman reference. 8:56 in the song... the guitar bit playing the rhythm there... rather than vocals over the top we have Bass underneath with chords in the piano over the top.

Just need to pin my piano player down to come around and play the parts

 

[wjm123]

Definitely needs work on the mix, vocals are too loud while the other instruments are barely audible during the first few minutes. Don't really like the first 3 mins though, just my opinion.

 

[KingAenarion]

......

Read the thread... The mix is so rough I think spent about 10 minutes on a track with 35 tracks in it.

But what don't you like about it? Anything in particular?

 

[Chris Finster]

All mix comments aside i think this oughta be pretty cool once it gets treated properly in the studio. Voice kinda reminds me of the Jethro Tull singer at times.

 

[KingAenarion]

All mix comments aside i think this oughta be pretty cool once it gets treated properly in the studio. Voice kinda reminds me of the Jethro Tull singer at times.

Thanks man

 

[Prydogga]

Progressively going to type my ideas:

*The starting guitar is really cool

*Opening vocals are pretty blunt, and the held notes are a little odd, could do with an effect (radio maybe), and some de-hissing

*Gets alot cooler when the guitar kicks in and the harmony comes up

*The cool down with the one dist/ guitar is cool, but in it's build ups it should be double tracked

*The buildup after this point is a really nice transition, and the slightly more brutal riff after is a great move for the song

*3.40 if remixed and retracked (at least the guitar on the left doing the high part) would be amazing to listen to, sounds like it has potential to be a HUGE sounding section

*4:50 or so, not a fan of the phrasing and note choice of the vocals, could use a harmony on the right side.

*Retrack the screams, they sway a little, timing wise, but they sound good for the most part.

*Solo is pretty damn sick, not like most I hear, very nice.

*Section following this I really have no problem with at all, works perfectly. Except again, the more lead driven guitar would benefit from being double tracked, to give it that huge element. And double track the rhythm one just for the mix to balance.

*Acoustic guitars? Nice. Lead guitar needs something different, sounds like you just sort of noodled after the lead part before, and the Opeth/dark style acoustics need a less typical bluesy solo.

*Heavy guitars after definitely need cleaner double tracking, the right side sounds like it's palm muting really heavily, while the left is much more open, so it really leans to the left.

010:00 ish vocals sound a bit off, not sure why. The idea is really nice, but it just sounds a tad off.

*Acoustic guitars again are really nice, and the vocals work MUCH better than the blues solo did. The second vocals the come in on the right really surpirsed me, really nice. Quite an atmosphere here. The 'hold on, hold on" part really is nice, and the high harmony really works nicely, just bring the level of that down a few db.

I agree with kurkk on the ending, except maybe end on "All for one and one FOR- "
and just let the echo of that be the ending. The robot/whatever doesn't really suit.

All in all it's a pretty sick journey of a song man, big props for having it be so nicely written, just work on the mix, and a few of the vocal ideas, and it'll be great. I'll be excited to hear the rest of the album.

 

[JamesM]

The only thing I've got to say that wouldn't be regurgitating what the other guys have said is that the vocals sound naked because they don't sit within the mix, an all too common problem with early mixes.

EDIT:
OH, and compress the fuck out of the hard vocals. Dynamics should be controlled via automation.

 

[Kurkkuviipale]

Haha, now that we speak of the ending, my bro actually got a nice idea for the ending lyrics... "All for one, one for NONE" and some echo and shit like pry said... dno if it works with your plans though. (You said you'd have something like a circle or something)

Armada, this thread is not about the mix in any way.

 

[KingAenarion]

I mean comments about the mix as a part of the song writing are fine Because yea...



Thanks guys, it's all really helpful hearing the thoughts


Prydogga, just one question...

*The cool down with the one dist/ guitar is cool, but in it's build ups it should be double tracked

Which point are you talking about?



Thanks for the pointers... It's good to get the opinion of people who aren't attached to the song.

We'll experiment with some of the ideas and such and what... I'll get the guitarists to double track their stuff and such... It'll be sexy as

 

[Acme]

This is The Moor from Opeth, right? You should get rid of the singer, he obviously can't sing. I think he needs a couple of years to learn how to use his voice. Also, he's using the microphone terribly, it feels like this is the first time he's using it. After reading your posts about the giga-mega PC and the new DAW, I was expecting something huge, but this is very far from it. The best is the bluesy solo, even if it's pretty messy and the worst are the vocals and the kick sound.

 

[KingAenarion]

This is The Moor from Opeth, right? You should get rid of the singer, he obviously can't sing. I think he needs a couple of years to learn how to use his voice. Also, he's using the microphone terribly, it feels like this is the first time he's using it. After reading your posts about the giga-mega PC and the new DAW, I was expecting something huge, but this is very far from it. The best is the bluesy solo, even if it's pretty messy and the worst are the vocals and the kick sound.

If you are trolling, you're a pretty fail troll...

If you're not trolling.

This may have influences from Opeth yes, but it is not an Opeth cover.

I am the singer, and I am a trained vocalist with multiple students... and I get asked to sing in more bands than you'll ever even hear. I also regularly get offered session work doing Jazz gigs... you need learn how to use both manners and the little thing inside your head called a brain

This is also a much older version of the mix. There is a new version up, which is still only a rough mix, as I am a producer, not an Audio Engineer... and I tend to mix softer songs and not huge 15 minute Prog Metal epics.

The version up now is not even close to the final version, as this for us is a demo of the actual song.


If you're a troll... it's still valid... every point you made is so pathetic and intentionally inflammatory that your puerile sense of humour is clear and you just need to get out of the house and grow up more. Everyone else has offered constructive criticism... you're just a mean spirited little shit who is either an idiot or gets kicks out of bringing people down like a school bully. Go back to 4chan you weed...