New to guitar, couple questions

[srfrancis]

I've played sax for like 9 years, but I want to learn jazz guitar. After doing some reading, I was thinking of going for a Schecter Blackjack and tuning in major thirds from the get go. What string gauges should I use?

Also, does anyone know of an amplifier with just a headphone out and a pass through, no drivers and on the cheap?

 

[MerlinTKD]

Is there a particular reason you want to tune in thirds, rather than the standard perfect fourths? Far be it from me to dissuade someone from trying something off the beaten path (here, of all places!)...

What kind of jazz are you interested in playing?

 

[distressed_romeo]

I wouldn't recommend tuning in thirds to be honest. The ideas a good one in theory, but unfortunately, thirds tend to sound pretty 'out' on guitar (same as all fretted instruments), and tuning the whole guitar in that way just accentuates this, making chords sound pretty 'clangy'. If you're concerned about the reading aspect of standard tuning, go for all-fourths (EADGCF). Just ask Garry Goodman and Durero on these boards about it, as they both use that tuning on guitars and basses with various numbers of strings...

 

[srfrancis]

What strings should I use for it then? Or for setups major thirds, fourths and fifths? I tried using some tunning applets and I was getting some weird numbers that weren't progressing in size.
As for the amp, I found a cheap 4 channel headphone amp that will work fine for now.

@Merlin I wanted to use the major thirds just because I figured it would be faster to get up to speed on it. Also, I tried my friends standard acoustic, and the non repetitive progression is annoying. I don't play in a band or anything, just more for futzing around on my own. As for the type of music, written is usually swing, big band type stuff, but a lot of just improv for fun. It would be cool to learn some classic rock stuff too.


Thanks for the help guys!!

 

[distressed_romeo]

For fourths, normal gauge sets should do just fine. Not sure about thirds...

On my steel-string guitar, that's currently in New Standard, which is mostly fifths (CGDAEG, or my personal variation, CGDAEF#)), I use 52, 42, 32, 18(p), 11, 10, which works pretty well, although the bass strings could stand being a little tighter. For parallel fifths (CGDAEB) you'd have to order a special high string (something like a 6) from Garry Goodman.

 

[distressed_romeo]

Incidentally, if you rumage round the boards, there are plenty of threads related to altered tunings for 6 and 7 string guitars!

 

[srfrancis]

So I got the blackjack, and it's a really nice guitar. Been progressing pretty fast, but I'm not used to using so much force when fingering.

One question though. The strings tend to have this annoying metal buzz sound after strumming them when they buzz against the next highest fret. Is there some way to fix that, or is it just technique. I figured I could raise the bridge since it looks adjustable, but I didn't want to screw it up.

Thanks

 

[ElRay]

After doing some reading, I was thinking of going for a Schecter Blackjack and tuning in major thirds from the get go. What string gauges should I use?

Depends on how you like your strings --"optimal tension" (minimally increasing tension from high to low), tighter in the middle (typical). There's the StringTensionApplet. The UI is a bit clunky, but it works well.

Is there a particular reason you want to tune in thirds, rather than the standard perfect fourths?

Standard isn't all 4ths...

The typical reasons for 7-string tuned in Major 3rds:

• It's a symetric tuning, so the fingerings are the same up&down and across the neck.
• You have 2-1/3 full octaves in one position.
• It's easier to site-read.
• More piano-like chord voicing.
• Fewer substitutions of chords (e.g. C7b9 is not substituted by a Dbdim7)

It definitely seems more popular with Jazz guitarists.

I wouldn't recommend tuning in thirds to be honest. The ideas a good one in theory, but unfortunately, thirds tend to sound pretty 'out' on guitar (same as all fretted instruments), and tuning the whole guitar in that way just accentuates this, making chords sound pretty 'clangy'.

I can see that being an issue with any acoustic that you can't adjust the intonation. I'd expect some out-of-tuneness, but I don't how many folk's ear's are developed to the point it will annoy them. I think the key is to use an electric (much better intonation adjustments) and to tune each string to pitch using a tuner and not relative to the lower pitched string. I think the later will exacerbate the out-of-tuneness of the Major 3rds.

When life swings back to a "more simple" phase (it's 3:00 AM and I'm working), I'm going to try this on my steel sting acoustic. If I find the out-of-tuneness an issue, I'll likely go the NST route and try Major 3rd's when I can swing a Baritone scale 7-string.

Incidentally, if you rumage round the boards, there are plenty of threads related to altered tunings for 6 and 7 string guitars!

And do a quick Googlea. Here's some site's I've found:

• A Comparison of New Guitar Methods: Introduction: Major 3rds Tuning
• The Major 3rd Tuning
• The M3 guitar - jazz on a 7-string electric tuned in major thirds

Ray

 

[dpm]

I've gotta say I'm curious about major 3rd tuning, though I'm so used to fourths it might be too much to bother with.

In all fourths most scales are very linear with 3 notes per string running pretty much straight across the fretboard. Lots of range in any one position on a 7 or 8 string guitar. Fifths is way too much of a stretch for me though dudes with bigger hands might be fine with it.

 

[ElRay]

Fifths is way too much of a stretch for me though dudes with bigger hands might be fine with it.

I think that's the point with an all 5ths tuning. You can't do standard scale runs low on the neck, so it forces you to do something different.

Ray

 

[srfrancis]

Yea I tuned mine in thirds without ever using the strings that came with it. Here were the gauges I got: 10, 13, 16, 22, 30, 38, 46. They are tight on the extended neck, but I guess it will be good to build up my finger strength. I forget which site I got them from, but the guy seemed to know his stuff. Also, I've been tuning with an electric tuner as opposed to matching frets, mainly because my ear sucks.

As for the thirds, its really easy to learn all the different things. Doing scales in any key is just memorizing the single pattern. Same for chords, modes, etc. I'm still too slow though.

Also, in addition to my buzzing question above, anyone know some good sites for music that's in normal sheet music form that I can read. Everything I find is in tab's

 

[dpm]

The buzzing sound is likely to be because your guitar needs to be set up properly and it's also very likely that the frets are uneven and need to be levelled and crowned. Technique could be issue too.

 

[Ciprian]

The buzzing sound is likely to be because your guitar needs to be set up properly and it's also very likely that the frets are uneven and need to be levelled and crowned. Technique could be issue too.

I always wanted to know, in order to level frets (what is crowning?), I assume you need a bunch of special tools, right?

Thanks

 

[dpm]

Yeah, you need some sort of levelling file, which is actually something you can make yourself if you're inclined, and you need a crowning file which you need to buy. There are different size crowning files for different size frets. I prefer the diamond coated ones. Crowning is the process of restoring the round shape to the fret after it has been flattened be levelling. Most importantly you need the relevant skills and that is a matter of natural ability and practical experience.

I've dressed frets every weekday for ten years now, literally thousands of different guitars, so I'm not shy to say it's something I'm good at. On the other hand there are plenty of things I suck at, like walking in a straight line, comprehending basic human behaviours, appropriate social conduct..... am I sharing too much?

 

[Ciprian]

Yeah, you need some sort of levelling file, which is actually something you can make yourself if you're inclined, and you need a crowning file which you need to buy. There are different size crowning files for different size frets. I prefer the diamond coated ones. Crowning is the process of restoring the round shape to the fret after it has been flattened be levelling. Most importantly you need the relevant skills and that is a matter of natural ability and practical experience.

Thanks for the info! I suspected that crowning had something to do with making the fret the shape it was before. I assume that the file must have a very fine grain. What I was afraid most of is that I thought you needed some sort of precise electronic measuring tool to make sure the frets are equal.

I've dressed frets every weekday for ten years now, literally thousands of different guitars, so I'm not shy to say it's something I'm good at. On the other hand there are plenty of things I suck at, like walking in a straight line, comprehending basic human behaviours, appropriate social conduct..... am I sharing too much?

 

[distressed_romeo]

Yea I tuned mine in thirds without ever using the strings that came with it. Here were the gauges I got: 10, 13, 16, 22, 30, 38, 46. They are tight on the extended neck, but I guess it will be good to build up my finger strength. I forget which site I got them from, but the guy seemed to know his stuff. Also, I've been tuning with an electric tuner as opposed to matching frets, mainly because my ear sucks.

As for the thirds, its really easy to learn all the different things. Doing scales in any key is just memorizing the single pattern. Same for chords, modes, etc. I'm still too slow though.

Also, in addition to my buzzing question above, anyone know some good sites for music that's in normal sheet music form that I can read. Everything I find is in tab's

Most stuff on the web is in tab form rather than standard notation I'm afraid, unless it's Powertab or GuitarPro format, which has both. We guitarists are generally an illiterate bunch...