Non-locking floating trem for 7 string - does it work?

[Stan P]

Hi Gurus of low registers,

I am looking for info on using non-locking terms (not Floyds/ Edges / Kahlers ) for 7 string guitar. The question is - Does It Work?

If you are a player using Flicker, or Gotoh or something similar, then:
(1) do you deck or get it to float
(2) does it stay in tune
(3) any problems with thick gauges?
(4) low tunings?
(5) what nut do you have?

Thanks In advance to all

 

[bostjan]

Same issues as with a 6 string nonlocking trem, but with a good nut (I recommend Graphtech) and good locking tuners (I recommend Sperzel), it's totally useable. You can free-float, but stability is only half as good that way. I think whether it stays in tune or not has everything to do with the user. In a number of ways, locking trems are easier to maintain. But if you hardly use the trem, you can set it up dive-only, and it's essentially like using a hardtail.

 

[John]

Currently using a Gotoh on my 7 string. I've previously used Hipshots before Gotoh released the aforementioned for 7's.

(1) do you deck or get it to float
Mine is set up to float.

(2) does it stay in tune
Yeah.

(3) any problems with thick gauges?
I've gone up to 74 with no issues to report, so far.

(4) low tunings?
I'm usually in drop G.

(5) what nut do you have?
Apart from deez nuts, Graphtech.

 

[Crungy]

(5) what nut do you have?
Apart from deez nuts, Graphtech.

+50 points

 

[cardinal]

I have a few Gotohs decked, and they do not stay in tune if I use the bar. I've never had a decked, non-locking trem stay in tune if I use the bar, FWIW.

I have a few floating with the Hipshot and they do stay in tune unless you do for a full out Dime squeal, then "no."

Presumably if I floated the Gotohs they would stay in tune, but I want those guitars decked and don't want to float them just to experiment.

These are all in Standard with a low B.

 

[Ross82]

I had the Hipshot Contour bridge on my Mayones, tuned to drop G. Stayed in tune well but I'm not a huge trem user in all honesty, other than a few mild dives now and again but general stability was good but not a patch on a double locking.

Free floating

Graphtech XL nut

10 - 74 strings and no issues going through the trem block HOWEVER, a .74 would NOT pass through the Hipshot locking tuner. I used to have to unwrap the last section (from about 1/2 inch before passing through the post) of the outer wire to bring the diameter down to fit through. I understand that Hipshot will drill out the posthole to accommodate bigger gauges if you send your machine head in to them or order them pre-drilled. I would also recommend buying the short length saddles for the bottom 2 strings at least, if your tunning around G on a 25.5 (or 25.4" as the Regius was) otherwise you will likely need to remove the saddle compression spring to be able to get the adjustment length for intonation.

 

[Stan P]

Thank you for informative answers.

Those who use floating setups, do you use 3 springs or more?

Also, do you find that bending ~74 gauge string pulls the trem forward more than it happens on the 6?

 

[Ross82]

Thank you for informative answers.

Those who use floating setups, do you use 3 springs or more?

Also, do you find that bending ~74 gauge string pulls the trem forward more than it happens on the 6?

I use 3 springs on all my trems without issue tuned anywhere between E standard down to F with the proper adjustment. Bending on a .74 was fine and seemed to have less pull out of pitch than some other higher tuned guitars, I would guess because of the lower pitch/string gauge. Not sure how it might change on longer scale though.

 

[Stan P]

@Ross82 could you please share a pic of your guitar with this setup?

 

[Ross82]

@Ross82 could you please share a pic of your guitar with this setup?

Unfortunately not any more as I sold it a couple of months back. I'll see if I have any pics anywhere but I'm not sure I have any now.

What were you wanting to see pics of in particular?

 

[Stan P]

Mostly looking for ideas of guitars that stay in tune with a strat like setup. I came to realize I really like the sound of the non-locker bridge, specifically Gotoh. Hipshot is nice too.

 

[Ross82]

Mostly looking for ideas of guitars that stay in tune with a strat like setup. I came to realize I really like the sound of the non-locker bridge, specifically Gotoh. Hipshot is nice too.

Ahh i see, the only other two trem guitars I have are both Floyd's, one of them is currently tuned to C standard/Drop Bb but it has a Tremol-no installed since I'm not a trem user 99% of the time. The other one is in E Standard and fully floating.

I like Floyds and they stay in tune great but I like to switch between tunings and dont want to set the trem every time I want to try something different.

Hipshot fixed is my bridge of choice.

The pic is of my Caparison, the ESP Arming adjuster is no longer installed, just the Tremol-no is. *EDIT* i would upload the pic but the allowed file size is pathetic it seems.

 

[yan12]

You ask "does it work". It works okay, but you need to know the limits.

If you want floating trem antics at your disposal, then I say NO. I had one of the first Hipshot contour-7's made, and it was a great trem. But Steve Vai tricks are out of the question.

I have come to the conclusion for myself and my playing style that if I want a real floater on any guitar, a locking nut is a must.

I no longer have floating Gotoh or Hipshot bridges. Either Floyd/Edge or hardtail. A DECKED trem is another story, but we are talking about floating the trem.

The JP series was as close as I could get to working with a floating/locking tuner setup.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Bridge doesn't matter, nut and setup do.

 

[Drew]

Never used that Gotoh on a 7, but I have the same trem on a 6 that I use heavily.

IMO, of course, but even with a vintage style trem like that, you can absolutely get good tuning stability with proper setup and a good nut even if it's floating, but I'd still really recommend a set of locking tuners, even if you're not going to lock the trem at the bridge. It does improve tuning stability a bit for heavy bar use, and as an added bonus it gives you greatly-improved string changes, it's a lot faster. As it happens, Gotoh makes some excellent thumbscrew locking tuners, too.

I'd have no hestiation using one of those on a 7, based on my experience on a 6.

 

[Drew]

You ask "does it work". It works okay, but you need to know the limits.

If you want floating trem antics at your disposal, then I say NO. I had one of the first Hipshot contour-7's made, and it was a great trem. But Steve Vai tricks are out of the question.

IMO, the Hipshot isn't the best example, though.

I have a pair of Strats, one with a Gotoh/Wilkinson VS100, and another with a Hipshot Contour. I had initially tried the Contour in the first Strat, and while I really liked how it felt and sounded, it had significantly less range than the Wilkinson for some reason, and wasn't nearly as good for things like diving flat or pulling back. It was great for smooth controlled bar work or vibrato or little dips here and there, but Vai type stuff or diving flat until the strings were just shaking on the fretboard or loose over the pickups just didn't happen. The Wilkinson, meanwhile (or the Gotoh 510, which I have on a Suhr) could cover most of the range of a Floyd, it just didn't have saddle locks.

 

[yan12]

IMO, the Hipshot isn't the best example, though.

I have a pair of Strats, one with a Gotoh/Wilkinson VS100, and another with a Hipshot Contour. I had initially tried the Contour in the first Strat, and while I really liked how it felt and sounded, it had significantly less range than the Wilkinson for some reason, and wasn't nearly as good for things like diving flat or pulling back. It was great for smooth controlled bar work or vibrato or little dips here and there, but Vai type stuff or diving flat until the strings were just shaking on the fretboard or loose over the pickups just didn't happen. The Wilkinson, meanwhile (or the Gotoh 510, which I have on a Suhr) could cover most of the range of a Floyd, it just didn't have saddle locks.

I agree, the Gotoh is better and I have had exactly 5 of them on different guitars.

I come from the old school view that if you want complete wankery ability, 9's or 10's on a six is the cure. Once you add that extra string or two, you need more springs and that kills the buttery, rubber band feel that I personally like for those style guitars. Lots of 7 or 8 string players use heavy gauge strings and do some tricks with it all staying in tune, but for me, the playability suffers.

I am firmly on hardtails or tom for my 7 strings these days, but have one Universe that wears 9's and it makes an appearance once in a great while. I tend to play like a jackass when I have a trem...I tell myself it's there so I must use it..!

And for some damn reason I love cricket chirps...If I have a floating trem I work those chirps in all the time. I don't know what my problem is.

 

[Drew]

I almost never use chirps.

You do have a stiffer trem feel with a 7 than a 6, though, for sure. It doesn't really phase me - if anything it makes delicacy a little easier whereas a Floyd with 9s even looking at the bar feels like you can move pitch, and while it takes a little more force you certainly can do anything on a 7 you can with a 6 (and, dive bombing that low B is FUUUUN).

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

My FRG in my Avatar uses a Edge LoPro7 on a 7321 neck with a Tusq XL nut and Hipshot locking tuners. I can dive bombto slack, and raise to the Vai heights and it performs wonderfully. It’s all in the setup if everything is as it should be, ie nut prep, knife edges/bridge posts, etc…

 

[Stan P]

Yes, Gotoh is stunning! I put it in my son’s Fernandes - it’s a monster !!

Never used that Gotoh on a 7, but I have the same trem on a 6 that I use heavily.

IMO, of course, but even with a vintage style trem like that, you can absolutely get good tuning stability with proper setup and a good nut even if it's floating, but I'd still really recommend a set of locking tuners, even if you're not going to lock the trem at the bridge. It does improve tuning stability a bit for heavy bar use, and as an added bonus it gives you greatly-improved string changes, it's a lot faster. As it happens, Gotoh makes some excellent thumbscrew locking tuners, too.

I'd have no hestiation using one of those on a 7, based on my experience on a 6.