Adam Of Angels
The GAS Man
Just a few things to add here, for the sake of clarification/honesty:
• Gavin McInnis, the leader of the Proud Boys, has actually disavowed the white nationalist alt-right, and refused to rally with them. I know this because he made it clear on a podcast I happened to catch him on a year or so ago. I’m not sure where the idea that his crew supports the white nationalists came from. If I’m not mistaken, the Proud Boys have non-white members, so like another user here said, I believe they value western culture, not whiteness. Not that the universities and media are helping to make a distinction between the two, but it’s there. (Note: Gavin is an asshole and provocateur, which is a another word for asshole. Don’t misunderstand this as a defense of his character)
• We somehow jumped from the unchallenged assertion that white people are the most dangerous group in America, to delicately handling the statistics that instead give that nod to black people. I would fully expect white people to be a bigger problem in terms of violence, in the same way that, if you were in a room with 9 wolves and one bear, wolves would be a much bigger problem for you. However, because the statistics on racial violence swing so wildly in the opposite direction (for an unknown number of complicated reasons, to be sure), Don Lemon’s claim should instead be read as questionable at best. It’s already been mentioned, but the discussion about race/violence is usually so intellectually dishonest and morally corrupt that even tip-toeing around it in the way we have here pisses people off. Which brings me to my next point:
• We simply can’t determine the potency of a racist comment or sentiment by taking stock of how much group-power is held by the offended. Nobody is smart enough to see where it will go. If you don’t draw the line at individual acts and statements, then where? When the scales finally tip? When/where would that be? At some point in the distant past, things took an ugly turn for what would become the modern day African American community, and I have a hard time believing that anybody saying things like “you can’t be racist against white people” would agree that the very first racist sentiments measured against black people, before power dynamics had been established and said ugly turn was taken, were impotent. All racism is potentially catastrophic and regressive, period.
• Charlottesville wasn’t only about white supremacists rallying - it was also about preventing statues of southern army leaders from being taken down. While those statues might symbolize empowered racism in your mind, and nothing else (and of course it would follow that you would want them removed), for others they serve as important markers in history. Ever hear about people who hate/are horrified by the holocaust but collect literature and imagery of it? Well, it’s a thing. Jordan Peterson, for example, despite being obsessed with criticizing communism and far-left politics has his home decorated with soviet art and memorabilia. History has a different meaning to people that don’t see everything as a power struggle. Some of those people protecting those statues in Charlottesville may very well have been decent people (I honestly don’t know, and neither do you - maybe they were all monsters, maybe not)) that had no idea they were in the presence of white suppremacists, and even if they did, it doesn’t follow that if they stuck around, they were clearly joining the cause. Simply showing up to the same event as an ideologue doesn’t constitute ideological alignment.
• Gavin McInnis, the leader of the Proud Boys, has actually disavowed the white nationalist alt-right, and refused to rally with them. I know this because he made it clear on a podcast I happened to catch him on a year or so ago. I’m not sure where the idea that his crew supports the white nationalists came from. If I’m not mistaken, the Proud Boys have non-white members, so like another user here said, I believe they value western culture, not whiteness. Not that the universities and media are helping to make a distinction between the two, but it’s there. (Note: Gavin is an asshole and provocateur, which is a another word for asshole. Don’t misunderstand this as a defense of his character)
• We somehow jumped from the unchallenged assertion that white people are the most dangerous group in America, to delicately handling the statistics that instead give that nod to black people. I would fully expect white people to be a bigger problem in terms of violence, in the same way that, if you were in a room with 9 wolves and one bear, wolves would be a much bigger problem for you. However, because the statistics on racial violence swing so wildly in the opposite direction (for an unknown number of complicated reasons, to be sure), Don Lemon’s claim should instead be read as questionable at best. It’s already been mentioned, but the discussion about race/violence is usually so intellectually dishonest and morally corrupt that even tip-toeing around it in the way we have here pisses people off. Which brings me to my next point:
• We simply can’t determine the potency of a racist comment or sentiment by taking stock of how much group-power is held by the offended. Nobody is smart enough to see where it will go. If you don’t draw the line at individual acts and statements, then where? When the scales finally tip? When/where would that be? At some point in the distant past, things took an ugly turn for what would become the modern day African American community, and I have a hard time believing that anybody saying things like “you can’t be racist against white people” would agree that the very first racist sentiments measured against black people, before power dynamics had been established and said ugly turn was taken, were impotent. All racism is potentially catastrophic and regressive, period.
• Charlottesville wasn’t only about white supremacists rallying - it was also about preventing statues of southern army leaders from being taken down. While those statues might symbolize empowered racism in your mind, and nothing else (and of course it would follow that you would want them removed), for others they serve as important markers in history. Ever hear about people who hate/are horrified by the holocaust but collect literature and imagery of it? Well, it’s a thing. Jordan Peterson, for example, despite being obsessed with criticizing communism and far-left politics has his home decorated with soviet art and memorabilia. History has a different meaning to people that don’t see everything as a power struggle. Some of those people protecting those statues in Charlottesville may very well have been decent people (I honestly don’t know, and neither do you - maybe they were all monsters, maybe not)) that had no idea they were in the presence of white suppremacists, and even if they did, it doesn’t follow that if they stuck around, they were clearly joining the cause. Simply showing up to the same event as an ideologue doesn’t constitute ideological alignment.
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