Note turns into harmonic soon after being struck

[AkiraSpectrum]

I have a guitar that when you play the B string on the 11th fret (A# note) the note will sound normally but then 1 second later will begin to turn into a harmonic before finally decaying after another few seconds. I notice that on the high e string the 6th fret (also A# note) does the same thing. I've tried locating anything on the guitar that might be ringing (strings included) by holding things down to see if something was buzzing/ratting causing the issue but I haven't found anything. I tried changing strings even and still no luck.

The guitar is a TOM bridge. Is it possible that in each spot there is a slightly high fret where after ringing out normally (note is full and not dead sounding) as it oscillates it taps the fret slightly and causes a harmonic? Or is there something else it could be that I'm not thinking of? I tried raising the action on the treble side of the bridge but it didn't make any difference.

 

[Descent]

How's your pickup height?

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

How's your pickup height?

1.5-2.0 mm across every pole piece on both pickups. I even tried lowering both pickups much further down to make sure it wasn't the pickups being too close but it didn't do anything.

 

[elkoki]

Did you try raising up the action just a tiny bit? Could be high frets maybe?

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

Did you try raising up the action just a tiny bit? Could be high frets maybe?

Yeah I raised the action up some and it didn't seem to help at all, and it actually appeared to make the note turn into a harmonic possibly even quicker, lol.

I'm thinking the fret could be just ever-so-slightly high and that's the issue, but usually high frets will result in a dead note or something similar, never experienced this before.

 

[elkoki]

Yeah I raised the action up some and it didn't seem to help at all, and it actually appeared to make the note turn into a harmonic possibly even quicker, lol.

I'm thinking the fret could be just ever-so-slightly high and that's the issue, but usually high frets will result in a dead note or something similar, never experienced this before.

You could try checking with a credit card or something similar. Lay it across 3 frets at a time and if it rocks back and forth the middle one is high. Could it possibly be the string is ringing behind your finger? I had some guitars that did that

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

You could try checking with a credit card or something similar. Lay it across 3 frets at a time and if it rocks back and forth the middle one is high. Could it possibly be the string is ringing behind your finger? I had some guitars that did that

Yeah i'll try and do a fret-rock test, in the past I had access to a real one, but having moved away from my friend who had one I no longer have access to check. Didn't think of making a make-shift rocker out of an old gift card or something. I'll check that later tonight.

I have tried muting the string behind my finger but no luck with that.

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

You could try checking with a credit card or something similar. Lay it across 3 frets at a time and if it rocks back and forth the middle one is high. Could it possibly be the string is ringing behind your finger? I had some guitars that did that

Used a credit card but there is no rocking. I don't know if a credit card is good enough to determine if a fret is high or not, but if it is good enough then the fret isn't high.

 

[Descent]

If you slack off from the truss rod a half turn your neck might bow a touch and then maybe the fret level won't matter.

I won't be surprised that it is uneven frets and will need a fret levelling, my buddy's brand new out of the shop Ibanez needed that. He spent $200 to have it done just so the guitar is playable.

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

If you slack off from the truss rod a half turn your neck might bow a touch and then maybe the fret level won't matter.

I won't be surprised that it is uneven frets and will need a fret levelling, my buddy's brand new out of the shop Ibanez needed that. He spent $200 to have it done just so the guitar is playable.

Tried giving more relief on the truss rod and didn't remedy the issue unfortunately.

Yeah, I'm not in a good financial position right now so wont be able to afford to take it to a tech for a few months or potentially longer, so I was hoping to identify the issue myself.

Could be uneven frets, if it is, it must be a very very slight high fret in those two areas because the notes still seem to ring full and clear when struck, they just turn into harmonics soon after. If it is uneven frets then it will likely be a long time before I can get that fixed, lol.

 

[Descent]

I imagine you can't return the guitar at this stage?

To recap: 5th string Ab (11th fret) doesn't sustain/is choked and 1st string A# (6th fret) same thing.

Yeah my money would be on fret job. You could possibly try different gauge strings, I'd say 1-2 gauges heavier and different brand in case you have dud strings but I am thining that these two positions might need to be levelled.

Stewmac has tutorials and tools if you feel like tackling this yourself. I am sure there are more knowledgeable guys on this procedure in here in the luthier section.

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

I imagine you can't return the guitar at this stage?

To recap: 5th string Ab (11th fret) doesn't sustain/is choked and 1st string A# (6th fret) same thing.

Yeah my money would be on fret job. You could possibly try different gauge strings, I'd say 1-2 gauges heavier and different brand in case you have dud strings but I am thining that these two positions might need to be levelled.

Stewmac has tutorials and tools if you feel like tackling this yourself. I am sure there are more knowledgeable guys on this procedure in here in the luthier section.

Yeah can't return the guitar.

2nd String on 11th fret and 1st string at 6th fret. Both notes ring but after a second they will turn into a harmonic as they ring out.

 

[Descent]

and say the note right before or after them sustains forever?


I kinda have an Ibanez that is a dud like that but on all notes, I need to constantly use vibrato for it to ring out.

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

and say the note right before or after them sustains forever?


I kinda have an Ibanez that is a dud like that but on all notes, I need to constantly use vibrato for it to ring out.

All other notes on the guitar (minus these two) have a long full sustain without turning into a harmonic.

My guess is that the frets are just slightly too high since I can’t seem to locate any loose or ringing parts on the guitar. I just haven’t seen this harmonic issue before related to a high fret.

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

Could just be a weird resonant frequency causing those particular notes to ring as harmonics

Have you tried a different string set and/or gauge?

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

Could just be a weird resonant frequency causing those particular notes to ring as harmonics

Have you tried a different string set and/or gauge?

I've tried different string brand (previously had Dunlops, and then tried Ernie Ball--both 10 gauge, in E-standard) but no luck there. Haven't tried different gauge yet, but have tried de-tuning the string a full step and then trying it and it seems to remedy the issue when I do that.

Yeah I'm thinking it could be a weird resonant thing coming from something in the guitar? I've tried tightening everything I can think of but no luck yet. Perhaps its just the guitar that resonates that frequency naturally? I've heard something like this before, but I don't know if that is a real thing or not.

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

I think it's a thing, especially if de-tuning makes it go away that should also eliminate hardware or fret issues, or at least minimize their impact. I would definitely try a set of 9's and/ or 11's to see if that changes anything as well

 

[budda]

Resonance wouldn't be something in the guitar, it's the guitar itself.

Quick test: change tunings and hit the Ab. If it does it again, you know it's the resonant frequency of the instrument.

If that doesn't jive, I don't know what would change the resonant frequency (guessing some way of changing mass but ????).

 

[Edika]

What struck me as odd is that it became worse when you raised the bridge. The increased tension/contact on the bridge made it worse so it might be the bridge itself than the guitar.

Budda's suggestion of detuning the guitar and trying an A# at the same string but in a different position. You can try putting a bit of foam behind the tunomatic. I know you tried with your hand but I had a similar result, meaning using my hand didn't do much to dampen noise but the foam did. It might also be enough of a change to alleviate the issue. You can also try and lower the bridge if you have leeway and see if that reduces the harmonic effect.

 

[sezna]

Resonance wouldn't be something in the guitar, it's the guitar itself.

Quick test: change tunings and hit the Ab. If it does it again, you know it's the resonant frequency of the instrument.

If that doesn't jive, I don't know what would change the resonant frequency (guessing some way of changing mass but ????).

I had the same issue with an upright bass, funnily enough it was with A, which is fairly close. Anyway, in classical music we call it a wolf tone and you can buy a wolf tone eliminator, it is a small brass block you attach to the string behind the bridge.

This article has more info about the eliminator and wolfs in general: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_tone

Perhaps makeshifting your own wolf tone block behind the bridge could work. Just tape something dense to it.