Note turns into harmonic soon after being struck

[AkiraSpectrum]

Resonance wouldn't be something in the guitar, it's the guitar itself.

Quick test: change tunings and hit the Ab. If it does it again, you know it's the resonant frequency of the instrument.

If that doesn't jive, I don't know what would change the resonant frequency (guessing some way of changing mass but ????).

What struck me as odd is that it became worse when you raised the bridge. The increased tension/contact on the bridge made it worse so it might be the bridge itself than the guitar.

Budda's suggestion of detuning the guitar and trying an A# at the same string but in a different position. You can try putting a bit of foam behind the tunomatic. I know you tried with your hand but I had a similar result, meaning using my hand didn't do much to dampen noise but the foam did. It might also be enough of a change to alleviate the issue. You can also try and lower the bridge if you have leeway and see if that reduces the harmonic effect.

Yeah I'm going to try more experimenting (hopefully tonight if I can get some time) with changing the tuning and seeing if the same note is ringing harmonically still when it moves down the fretboard from altering the tuning.

The bridge being the problem strikes me as interesting, especially if something like resting my hand over it may not be enough. I'll try to locate some foam or cloth I can jam behind the bridge.

I'll try more experimenting with lowering and raising the bridge as well.

I had the same issue with an upright bass, funnily enough it was with A, which is fairly close. Anyway, in classical music we call it a wolf tone and you can buy a wolf tone eliminator, it is a small brass block you attach to the string behind the bridge.

This article has more info about the eliminator and wolfs in general: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_tone

Perhaps makeshifting your own wolf tone block behind the bridge could work. Just tape something dense to it.

Interesting, i'll have to look into that.

 

[budda]

You need about a minute to drop the low string and see if it still happens.

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

I had the same issue with an upright bass, funnily enough it was with A, which is fairly close. Anyway, in classical music we call it a wolf tone and you can buy a wolf tone eliminator, it is a small brass block you attach to the string behind the bridge.

This article has more info about the eliminator and wolfs in general: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_tone

Perhaps makeshifting your own wolf tone block behind the bridge could work. Just tape something dense to it.

What struck me as odd is that it became worse when you raised the bridge. The increased tension/contact on the bridge made it worse so it might be the bridge itself than the guitar.

Budda's suggestion of detuning the guitar and trying an A# at the same string but in a different position. You can try putting a bit of foam behind the tunomatic. I know you tried with your hand but I had a similar result, meaning using my hand didn't do much to dampen noise but the foam did. It might also be enough of a change to alleviate the issue. You can also try and lower the bridge if you have leeway and see if that reduces the harmonic effect.

Resonance wouldn't be something in the guitar, it's the guitar itself.

Quick test: change tunings and hit the Ab. If it does it again, you know it's the resonant frequency of the instrument.

If that doesn't jive, I don't know what would change the resonant frequency (guessing some way of changing mass but ????).

I think it's a thing, especially if de-tuning makes it go away that should also eliminate hardware or fret issues, or at least minimize their impact. I would definitely try a set of 9's and/ or 11's to see if that changes anything as well

Did some testing:

Foam under bridge and behind nut doesn't help.
Tried raising action by quite a lot and still doesn't help.
Detuned B string a half step, and when I play the 11th fret on that string the problem is fixed (no harmonic ring out), when I play the 12th fret the problem is only very slightly there near the end of the ring out of the note, but barely noticeable. Same thing with the high e string at the 6th fret (which is also a A# note), when i detune the issue goes away at that fret and is only vary slightly audible when playing it on the 7th fret with that string detuned.

Here is a clip (played the notes up the fretboard on the B-string and ended on the problem note):
https://soundcloud.com/michael-sherbert/harmonic-ringing-issue

 

[sezna]

Did some testing:

Foam under bridge and behind nut doesn't help.
Tried raising action by quite a lot and still doesn't help.
Detuned B string a half step, and when I play the 11th fret on that string the problem is fixed (no harmonic ring out), when I play the 12th fret the problem is only very slightly there near the end of the ring out of the note, but barely noticeable. Same thing with the high e string at the 6th fret (which is also a A# note), when i detune the issue goes away at that fret and is only vary slightly audible when playing it on the 7th fret with that string detuned.

Here is a clip (played the notes up the fretboard on the B-string and ended on the problem note):
https://soundcloud.com/michael-sherbert/harmonic-ringing-issue

I think it that supports the idea that it is a wolf tone.

Do you have any dense rubber or something similar you can attach to just that string behind the bridge?

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

I think it that supports the idea that it is a wolf tone, aka resonant frequency.

Yeah, it could very well be. Even though I don't really have the extra money I think I might take it to a tech I trust to see if he can determine for sure the issue, and if it is a wolf tone to try to eliminate it with something (wolf-tone eliminator-esque device).

 

[sezna]

Yeah, it could very well be. Even though I don't really have the extra money I think I might take it to a tech I trust to see if he can determine for sure the issue, and if it is a wolf tone to try to eliminate it with something (wolf-tone eliminator-esque device).

Sorry, you quoted me while I was editing. I think you can test it and maybe makeshift something to diagnose in the meanwhile. There’s a lot of resources out there on wolfs, mostly for cello/bass but the idea is the same. Dense rubber or metal secured very securely, in such a way that it vibrates with the string?

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

I think it that supports the idea that it is a wolf tone.

Do you have any dense rubber or something similar you can attach to just that string behind the bridge?

No I don't have anything like that unfortunately. Will probably just sit on it for a bit and then take it to a tech I really like. Thanks for your help!

 

[cardinal]

This seems to be to definitely be a wolf note/resonance-based dead spot.

Try this: firmly plant the headstock against a door jam or speaker cab or something heavy and immobile. Then play the note. Does it ring out clearly? If it does, it's definitely resonance based. Firmly planting the headstock like this completely dampens it and prevents it from resonating, which is why the note suddenly is ringing out.

Things you can do: add or subtract weight from the headstock. Fender makes the Fat Finger (two sizes) specifically for this purpose. Also, just a regular capo will work. YOu'll want to experiment with where it's placed. Some placements won't do anything. Others will shift the spot around in different directions and such.

There's really nothing you can do to eliminate it entirely. The best you can do is try to move it around or minimize it. If it's just one note, I'll often just shift what I'm doing to a different position on the neck where the sustain is fine or I'll just keep a capo to toss onto the headstock when needed.

 

[GunpointMetal]

I had a Schecter that would do this on Bb. Clamping a vice grip on the headstock (with some foam between to not damage the finish) or holding the headstock against a wall eliminated it, lol. I finally ended up taking the neck off and resetting it and the problem went away.

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

This seems to be to definitely be a wolf note/resonance-based dead spot.

Try this: firmly plant the headstock against a door jam or speaker cab or something heavy and immobile. Then play the note. Does it ring out clearly? If it does, it's definitely resonance based. Firmly planting the headstock like this completely dampens it and prevents it from resonating, which is why the note suddenly is ringing out.

Things you can do: add or subtract weight from the headstock. Fender makes the Fat Finger (two sizes) specifically for this purpose. Also, just a regular capo will work. YOu'll want to experiment with where it's placed. Some placements won't do anything. Others will shift the spot around in different directions and such.

There's really nothing you can do to eliminate it entirely. The best you can do is try to move it around or minimize it. If it's just one note, I'll often just shift what I'm doing to a different position on the neck where the sustain is fine or I'll just keep a capo to toss onto the headstock when needed.

I'll give this a try before I take it to my tech. Thanks

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

UPDATE:

I haven't gotten the guitar back yet but the tech said the issue seems to have disappeared after lowering the tailpiece. After dropping off the guitar to him the other week it ran through my mind that I didn't try fiddling with the tailpiece and now that the tailpiece seems to have been the issue I'm kind of kicking myself for having to pay for something I could have and should have done. Oh well, at least the problem appears to have been fixed and I am looking forward to getting it back in a few days.