Nut for a headless/zero fret neck?

[KR250]

As the title suggests, looking for input on whether a nut is needed with a headless build with a zero fret. My initial design was to position the headless gear about were the nut would go, so I can't see any reason to add one. I've seen other builds include one, but that seems unnecessary and redundant.

Had started to work on blending down the fretboard to the neck for a smoother transition from string to hardware, but put a pause on it. Will probably try and cut it closer once the fret is in (have had chip out before with not enough material there).

 

[ArtDecade]

The zero fret negates the need for a nut, but a well cut nut is typically better than a zero fret.

 

[dmlinger]

I'd vote for nut only in lieu of a zero fret, but if you have to have the zero fret, also use a nut. It will ensure proper string spacing is maintained. Good luck with the build!

 

[KR250]

I'd vote for nut only in lieu of a zero fret, but if you have to have the zero fret, also use a nut. It will ensure proper string spacing is maintained. Good luck with the build!

My thought was that with carefully placed hardware I should be able to get the string spacing right where I want it without needing a nut. First headless build though. Guess we'll see!

The zero fret negates the need for a nut, but a well cut nut is typically better than a zero fret.

The motive going zero fret was for a little more clarity in the the very low tuning and large string gauges it'll have (+3 lower, +1 higher). I keep wavering between which I prefer better, I agree there's more control with a proper setup nut.

 

[LiveOVErdrive]

I would consider a nut if you arent sure you can mount your headless hardware precisely right. Very hard to adjust laterally once they're installed.

I... Uh... Know from experience.

 

[KR250]

Talked with a good buddy who has a lot of knowledge on headless guitars. I'm going to add a nut mainly for dampening any harmonics around the zero fret, and additionally to allow shallower break angle of the string away from the zero fret. Lowest gauge is going to be about .100, so that could cause issues if the string is trying to raise up past the zero fret.

Appreciate the comments. Happy to hear more.

 

[owlexifry]

i don't usually, doesn't really turn me on.

(sorry i had to)

as above, zero fret negates need for nut.

good luck with the build!

 

[j3ps3]

It won't work without a nut. The strings will slide over that zero fret sideways (and it doesn't need to be much to be noticeable) which will result in tuning issues. At least that's my experience, even if the headless gear is close to that zero fret. Much easier to just add the nut than try to get this to work properly.

 

[dmlinger]

Best of both worlds might be to get headless hardware that is a single unit, like the Hipshot headless stuff. Meaning it doesn't have single pieces that you have to rely on mounting perfectly - it's one piece so it has the string spacing already built into the hardware.

 

[profwoot]

Headless hardware still have a pretty decent sized hole to put the string through, meaning you'd need to be paying attention to string spacing every time you change your strings, plus the bending issue noted above. A nut is required whether there's a 0 fret or not.

 

[LiveOVErdrive]

Fwiw, on my next headless build I plan on just using a Floyd rose nut with the ball end at the head.

 

[KR250]

Best of both worlds might be to get headless hardware that is a single unit, like the Hipshot headless stuff. Meaning it doesn't have single pieces that you have to rely on mounting perfectly - it's one piece so it has the string spacing already built into the hardware.

Would be great for a more standard build, I had to venture off a bit doing a custom multi-scale 10 string. Also going to require 2 nut blanks.

 

[dmlinger]

Would be great for a more standard build, I had to venture off a bit doing a custom multi-scale 10 string. Also going to require 2 nut blanks.

Oh damn, son. You better post progress pics!

 

[StringPluckery]

Would be great for a more standard build, I had to venture off a bit doing a custom multi-scale 10 string. Also going to require 2 nut blanks.

Have you looked at using an acoustic saddle blank rather than using two nut blanks?

 

[StringPluckery]

Fwiw, on my next headless build I plan on just using a Floyd rose nut with the ball end at the head.

That's cool. I've thought of doing this, too. It would look way more clean than some of the options for headless string locks that are out there.

I remember reading before (on a forum on the Internet so it's true) about people saying it wasn't a good idea. Not sure how since they work fine for FR equipped guitars.

 

[LiveOVErdrive]

That's cool. I've thought of doing this, too. It would look way more clean than some of the options for headless string locks that are out there.

I remember reading before (on a forum on the Internet so it's true) about people saying it wasn't a good idea. Not sure how since they work fine for FR equipped guitars.

Could be that the tuning machines still hold a lot of the force of the string tension and the two screws otherwise aren't enough? I imagine with one of the old school ones with machine screws that go all the way through it would be fine.

 

[KR250]

Have you looked at using an acoustic saddle blank rather than using two nut blanks?

Great suggestion, found a Graphtech version that is just barely wide enough at 4". TY.

 

[StringPluckery]

Great suggestion, found a Graphtech version that is just barely wide enough at 4". TY.

You're welcome. I'll be purchasing the same ones here soon.

 

[penguin_316]

I did a headless build with the hip shot headless hardware. Didn’t use a nut, just a zero fret with a mm or 2 after and the headless hardware. There were no issues with harmonics or overtones. It’s such a short distance the strings don’t vibrate.

One plus is, you get more wiggle on the first few fret. So for huge pinch harmonics on the lower frets it was awesome. If you have a setup where the headless hardware will remain fixed, a nut isn’t needed at all.

 

[penguin_316]

Just saw you are doing a 10 string. While I didn’t end up using them, Mera hardware are good quality and the headless hardware would be a breeze to work with.

Look up the mera submarines and headless hardware on google.