Obama re-elected!!!!
- Thread starter GuitaristOfHell
- Start date
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Captain Butterscotch
Well-Known Member
srs bsnnss
Konfyouzd
Return of the Dread-I
Seriously stupid business... 
Jakke
Pretty wisdomous
I don't understand... What is there to argue?
And the nit-picker in me is telling me that capitalism is not American.
And the nit-picker in me is telling me that capitalism is not American.
stratjacket
Lost in a loop
I'm just curious, what is it about Capitalism you don't like or don't think is American?
Jakke
Pretty wisdomous
Because capitalism existed well before the foundation of the United States.
VBCheeseGrater
not quite a shredder
I see what you're saying here. I am not a fan of handouts myself. I would like some more conditions placed on welfare and foodstamps, for instance - but at the same time, i think if someone is hungry, no fault in feeding them.
But for healthcare, I don't view it as a handout. I see it as a service like the police dept and fire dept. I do believe we need to get with the rest of the civilized world on the healthcare front, because sickness can bankrupt anyone but the super rich in this country, even with insurance (who are crooks in my experience)
Funny that no one complains and cries communism about our socialist police and fire depts.
Your house is on fire - you call 911 -they answer the phone "Do you have fire insurance?" and hang up when you say no.
Adam Of Angels
The GAS Man
Konfyouzd
Return of the Dread-I
@Jakke - I'll eat my capitalist freedom fries while you sip on your socialist haterade...
(Secretly wants to move to Sweden)
(Secretly wants to move to Sweden)
Jakke
Pretty wisdomous
Why can't we all just get along???????????
@Jakke - I'll eat my capitalist freedom fries while you sip on your socialist haterade...
(Secretly wants to move to Sweden)
Yes, in Motherland we only have cabbages, and they are no good making fries.
That is why we do not call them fries, we call them american-capitalism-stupid-sticks.
stratjacket
Lost in a loop
@jakke, Ahh, I see what you're saying.
@VBCheeseGrater, I understand your point about healthcare. I don't see it as a handout as much as I see it too complicated of a thing for govt to control. I think as long as a persons illness is common, meaning it fits what most people catch, then the system will work for them. But if you have some rare illness that isn't defined clearly, then it will be hard to get treatment. Rationing will inevitably occur, it has to because there will be tough decisions made about costs of each program just like some current insurance companies do. We're only shifting those decisions from one 'evil' to another. The only difference is we will have no options, once the govt says no, that's it. Also I believe the costs of healthcare is driven up by the very govt that's trying to save the day. Things would be much more affordable if they did not already dictate prices and coverage.
I think comparing that to a fire department is comparing apples and oranges. Communities have voluntary fire departments as well as larger communities use taxes to fund it. But it's a much simpler task, put out the fire. There are no needs to develop new cures or study something as complex as the human body, just put out the fire and it's rarely used by most people. For police, that is different too because we have laws, someone has to enforce the law. So to have any form of govt, you must have police, otherwise it's anarchy.
I know I said I was done here, but the conversation is good. There's no personal attacks and everyone is respectful of others views. I normally never talk politics like this. So I appreciate your guys thoughts and civility. I wish most people could have these talks without getting pissed.
@VBCheeseGrater, I understand your point about healthcare. I don't see it as a handout as much as I see it too complicated of a thing for govt to control. I think as long as a persons illness is common, meaning it fits what most people catch, then the system will work for them. But if you have some rare illness that isn't defined clearly, then it will be hard to get treatment. Rationing will inevitably occur, it has to because there will be tough decisions made about costs of each program just like some current insurance companies do. We're only shifting those decisions from one 'evil' to another. The only difference is we will have no options, once the govt says no, that's it. Also I believe the costs of healthcare is driven up by the very govt that's trying to save the day. Things would be much more affordable if they did not already dictate prices and coverage.
I think comparing that to a fire department is comparing apples and oranges. Communities have voluntary fire departments as well as larger communities use taxes to fund it. But it's a much simpler task, put out the fire. There are no needs to develop new cures or study something as complex as the human body, just put out the fire and it's rarely used by most people. For police, that is different too because we have laws, someone has to enforce the law. So to have any form of govt, you must have police, otherwise it's anarchy.
I know I said I was done here, but the conversation is good. There's no personal attacks and everyone is respectful of others views. I normally never talk politics like this. So I appreciate your guys thoughts and civility. I wish most people could have these talks without getting pissed.
I forgot how "Ameri-liberal" this forum was.
I'm not pleased as this election was between two of the worst candidates this country was ever had. Only difference between them were one has been president already.
I hope I'm proven wrong, but I think the Obama administration has done very little in attempting to improve the country. Maybe now that he doesn't need to kiss ass for reelection he will start going to work..
Guantanamo? Shut that shit down you procrastinator.
You "support" legal marijuana? Stop being a little girl and do something about it.
You "support" gay rights? Well now that you don't need conservative votes, fucking do something about it.
/rant
I'm not pleased as this election was between two of the worst candidates this country was ever had. Only difference between them were one has been president already.
I hope I'm proven wrong, but I think the Obama administration has done very little in attempting to improve the country. Maybe now that he doesn't need to kiss ass for reelection he will start going to work..
Guantanamo? Shut that shit down you procrastinator.
You "support" legal marijuana? Stop being a little girl and do something about it.
You "support" gay rights? Well now that you don't need conservative votes, fucking do something about it.
/rant
VBCheeseGrater
not quite a shredder
You make some good points strat jacket. True, the police/fire analogy is a bit stretched, but it does at least show that we do accept forms socialism in some areas here in the US, often without even realizing it. Don't forget roads and education.
I will just point out that in the UK, where i'm originally from (i'm pretty much americanized, been here since 4yrs old), folks can choose to see a private doctor if they wish and can afford it. With any socialized system - schools, security, medicine - there are always still private options one can still pay for if they wish.
I will just point out that in the UK, where i'm originally from (i'm pretty much americanized, been here since 4yrs old), folks can choose to see a private doctor if they wish and can afford it. With any socialized system - schools, security, medicine - there are always still private options one can still pay for if they wish.
stratjacket
Lost in a loop
VB, I agree, nothing is cut and dry. There are forms of socialism that everyone accepts whether we realize it or not. Opinions differ some people draw lines on certain things. I don't think people are as divided on things as it seems. I think people misunderstand each others point of view or enter a conversation with preconceived notions more often than not and that leads to some hate. I also have heard all my life that we should celebrate our differences, but I think we should celebrate more our commonalities. Find something we agree on as a starting point and we'll be able to listen to other people views from a different perspective.
Hate to break it to you, but this flies directly in the face of reality for every first world country that has adopted universal healthcare. A) People in countries with universal healthcare are still allowed to see private physicians if they can afford it and b) it is a proven fact that instituting universal healthcare keeps costs down.
stratjacket
Lost in a loop
Please show me those facts and how well compare it with the level of service America had.
Stealthdjentstic
Banned
^ LOL
stratjacket
Lost in a loop
It's OK, you don't need to come back with WHO rankings, then I'll just come back with how flawed that is pointing out the inaccuracies and then I'll talk about how 80% of medical innovation over the last 25 years have come through the US, etc... It doesn't matter. It's the law now and we'll see how it goes over the next 10 years.
Stealthdjentstic
Banned
I used to work for a venture capital firm that focused on biotech and cleantech, the only reason most innovation comes from the US is because of a good legal system that protects IP reasonably well, easy access to educated employees, easy access to a large pool of investors, etc...not because of a private healthcare system.
In fact, that Vcap was Canadian and many many others are also non-american. Most are structured with mind and management in other countries and then the actual companies owned by the vcaps operating out of the US. Im not hating on the US at all, I'm just telling you that the amount of innovating coming out of the states has to do with a great environment for doing business rather than how your healthcare system functions
So no I dont need to come back with WHO ratings because I have real world experience with this.
Blake1970
Well-Known Member
Yes, in Motherland we only have cabbages, and they are no good making fries.
That is why we do not call them fries, we call them american-capitalism-stupid-sticks.
That comment has me cracking up!
