Obama re-elected!!!!

[Treeunit212]

Here's what's really going to happen.

The House Republicans are going to start having real, meaningful talks with Democrats about raising some revenues, or be responsible for us going over the fiscal cliff. Democrats, strangely enough, seem willing to go over the fiscal cliff for all the revenue we need to reverse the debt, a position i think is ridiculously irresponsible. It's like they're looking at it like ripping off a band aid, when in actuality it would be like ripping someone's arm off. There's simply no way around it anymore, though, and if we are forced to go over it, it will be bad for everyone. Republicans had leverage when they held the debt ceiling for hostage, but that leverage is long, long gone.

The president holds all the cards, and they know that. What's more, they're still in shock after being absolutely destroyed election night without having the slightest clue of what was coming. If the Republicans don't want Hilary Clinton 2016, they need to get their act together and rid themselves of this tea party bullshit or continue suffering crushing defeats election after election. It's that simple.

The country has spoken, and it was a glorious, legitimate raping of every single Republican who said something ignorant about rape. We now have 19 women senators, one of which being the first openly lesbian senator in history. Three more states have legalized marijuana, two more have gay marriage, and Minnesota's proposal to legalization any future laws supporting it failed miserably.

It does not matter how much money you throw at swing states if people realize that your entire message is complete, utter bullshit. You'd think these asshole billionaires whom made fortunes investing would have thought that through a little harder after humiliatingly wasting their fortunes on Mitt Romney.

Just goes to show, you don't have to be smart to be wealthy.

 

[stratjacket]

Yeah, I agree with that which is why I listed the US as where they come from, not that it's Americans doing it all. I just worry how the takeover of healthcare will affect that environment. I don't think we'll really know if it does or not for some years.

 

[Stealthdjentstic]

Yeah, I agree with that which is why I listed the US as where they come from, not that it's Americans doing it all. I just worry how the takeover of healthcare will affect that environment. I don't think we'll really know if it does or not for some years.

It won't. Why would a change in how healthcare is handled affect the laws that create a good environment for investment/vcap/private equity work to be carried out? It just makes no sense. Going back the WHO thing, yes the US comes in very low in terms of health of the overall population when compared to other big GDP countries. I mean look at us in Canada, we are totally fine, I have a severe back problem that causes chronic pain, so if anyone was to bitch about problems with our healthcare system it would be me. Its not like you can't have a private healthcare system in place alongside a public one anyways.

 

[stratjacket]

It does not matter how much money you throw at swing states if people realize that your entire message is complete, utter bullshit. You'd think these asshole billionaires whom made fortunes investing would have thought that through a little harder after humiliatingly wasting their fortunes on Mitt Romney.

Just goes to show, you don't have to be smart to be wealthy.

Oh I don't know. I think they may be pretty smart. They spent a lot of money and got you to believe that democratic nonsense. You spoke your points about "revenues" instead of taxes and Republicans holding things hostage about as well as any democratic politician could have hoped. I guess it does work.

This is exactly why we're at this point. Did you stop to take a look at the 3 budgets the Republicans passed and sent over to Harry Reid and the Democrats in the Senate (that they wouldn't even bring to a vote) that would have avoided all this?

 

[jam3v]

Both candidates suck...

People say this all the time, and it usually gives them a free pass to not communicate their reasoning.

However, I would like to know, this time, why you think this.

 

[Mordacain]

Why the fuck is one of your major parties and a number of it's high profile supporters completely window-licking insane?

Really not trying to be a dick here, but lets not forget that the biggest reason (arguably) for the window-licking insanity being propagated as far, wide and fast as it has it due to Rupert Murdoch, who is about as American as 'Roo Pie (though technically, he has been an American citizen for awhile now).

 

[flint757]

I think comparing that to a fire department is comparing apples and oranges. Communities have voluntary fire departments as well as larger communities use taxes to fund it. But it's a much simpler task, put out the fire. There are no needs to develop new cures or study something as complex as the human body, just put out the fire and it's rarely used by most people. For police, that is different too because we have laws, someone has to enforce the law. So to have any form of govt, you must have police, otherwise it's anarchy.

I know I said I was done here, but the conversation is good. There's no personal attacks and everyone is respectful of others views. I normally never talk politics like this. So I appreciate your guys thoughts and civility. I wish most people could have these talks without getting pissed.

Just FYI One fire truck cost about 2 million dollars and even in a small city like mine each fire fighter has to make at least ~200-250 calls a year or gets the boot. I'd call that really active. Tax dollars pay for ALL the gear and there is innovation in fire safety, training and tools all the time. Just a couple years ago a new safer tool for cutting through any metal object (not talking about jaws of life) was invented as an example.

Police Departments in most major cities are non-stop busy as well. Crime is quite rampant.

Oh I don't know. I think they may be pretty smart. They spent a lot of money and got you to believe that democratic nonsense. You spoke your points about "revenues" instead of taxes and Republicans holding things hostage about as well as any democratic politician could have hoped. I guess it does work.

This is exactly why we're at this point. Did you stop to take a look at the 3 budgets the Republicans passed and sent over to Harry Reid and the Democrats in the Senate (that they wouldn't even bring to a vote) that would have avoided all this?

So the major corporations spent a shit ton of money on Romney so that Obama would win?

Mind you the popular vote wasn't a landslide victory so if that really was their intent it very well could have not worked.

Democrats and Republicans are NEVER going to completely agree on a budget (especially currently) as they have very different approaches that require very different policies. Republicans don't want the healthcare reform, democrats do, as just one example, and that greatly affects how the budget is to be distributed. And the 2 'Obama budgets' that didn't get a vote weren't even his own budgets (since presidents can't officially write them), but a shell of what it was as it wasn't even written by a Democrat. Doesn't represent his policies if it isn't written by someone who supports his policies.

Your position is very obvious. You don't trust the government and there are valid reasons to feel that way. The thing is, in the same sense, most Republicans don't want the healthcare reform (as I already mentioned) so no policy they put through is going to be to its benefit. So if it were to fail because of their policies they would then say I knew it was going to fail when in fact in the right environment it would have been fine. So these kind of things matter (the budget). Also, the healthcare reform is a far cry from socialized medicine.

 

[stratjacket]

So the major corporations spent a shit ton of money on Romney so that Obama would win?

haha, no, I think you missed my point. He was saying how dumb it is for rich people blowing money trying to sway people with BS messages. I was just pointing out that rich democrats swayed him with the same things.

I agree that Dems and Reps will never completely agree. What I think should have happened was the Senate look at it, make revisions and send back to the House. That is how compromise works. But Harry Reid just stonewalled it. Even take the presidents budget he submitted, try to revise it. Something, almost anything is better than nothing over the last 3 years. I don't understand why they even brought Obama's budget to a vote without trying to revise it when it was obvious not a single Dem, Rep or Indie would vote for it. That was strange.

 

[Scar Symmetry]

Obama didn’t crash the market! - Salon.com

President Obama Makes Major Tax Demand | TPMDC

 

[Luke Acacia]

I thought this should go here.

 

[Treeunit212]

This is exactly why we're at this point. Did you stop to take a look at the 3 budgets the Republicans passed and sent over to Harry Reid and the Democrats in the Senate (that they wouldn't even bring to a vote) that would have avoided all this?

I did. Did you?

When the Obama administration sent their budget recommendations to the Republican controlled House of Representatives, it was 1900 pages long. By the time it had gone through the house and was sent to the Senate, it had been decimated down to 56 pages. That’s a difference of 1844 pages, a ridiculous downgrade for the most economically powerful country in the world. It was then sent to the Senate, where both the Democrats and Republicans voted it down unanimously, and the Republicans naturally screamed, “Look! They won’t even vote for their own president’s budget!”

The truth is, it wasn't Obama’s budget at all. When you actually look a little farther than the partisan bickering you’re exposed to in your day to day life, you start to see a pattern. The party that claims to be for fiscal responsibility is in fact the complete opposite. It’s like when your grandma goes shopping on QVC, runs up a bunch of credit card debt buying jewelry she doesn’t need, hands the card to you to pay for essentials like groceries, and blames you for the overage charge. When grandma does it, we call it Alzheimer’s. When the Government does it, we call them Republicans: the party that ran up ten trillion in debt with not so much as a peep, then started screaming about it as soon as Obama entered office like a toddler who lost his tootsie pop.

Republicans are the epitome of entitlement. Bill Clinton spelled it out best in his book “Back to Work” when he said that “the greatest accomplishment of the anti-government Republicans was not to reduce the size of the federal government but to stop paying for it.”

I like to call it the fiscal entitlement complex.

 

[Treeunit212]

I thought this should go here.

 

[stratjacket]

Republicans ran up 10 trillion in debt? Haha, thats funny. Both parties have ran it up, but Obama and Bush went extreme.

The current debt is just over 16trillion. It was ~10 trillion when Obama took office, so about 38% (6 trillion) of all the national debt that we've accumulated over 200+ years have been over these last 4 years. Awful. Bush was also horrible at 4trillion over 8 years. Whats really scary is in the last 12 years, our last 2 presidents in office have spent just about 63% of all our debt. Where the previous 43 presidents ran up 37% of the 16trillion.

Stated another way, Obama in 4 years, has ran up the same debt(6trillion) as George Washingkton to Bill Clinton did(6trillion). But both parties own it and have done it.

 

[TRENCHLORD]

(p.s. TRENCHLORD if you're reading this, we don't hate you, come back guy )

Thanks, I really do appreciate that.

Yeah I'm disappionted with the big one, but things went my way in some of the other elections.
Mike Pence will take over for term limited Mitch Daniels for Indiana Governor (I live next to Terre Haute).
Back up to 30 Republican governors nationally.
Marijewana is cool somewhere finally.
House can still gridlock Obama in his quest for fullblown socialism.

GOP maybe will never realize that image is everything in today's culture.
If they want to compete they'll have to utilize guys like Scott Walker, Bobby Jindell, Marco Rubia, Paul Ryan, ect..

I'll get behind whoever will promote a more limited less restrictive governmental role in society.

People really need to look at what is going on in Illinois and Indiana (the contrast between the two in regaurds to job creation and business growth/state revenue collection).

Democratically controlled states like California and Illinios are collapsing financially, while Republican run states like Indiana and Texas are thriving.
Just look at what a little union cracking can do in Wisconson.
Scott Walker's leadership has resulted in massive strides for his state's fiscal standing.

 

[flint757]

haha, no, I think you missed my point. He was saying how dumb it is for rich people blowing money trying to sway people with BS messages. I was just pointing out that rich democrats swayed him with the same things.

I agree that Dems and Reps will never completely agree. What I think should have happened was the Senate look at it, make revisions and send back to the House. That is how compromise works. But Harry Reid just stonewalled it. Even take the presidents budget he submitted, try to revise it. Something, almost anything is better than nothing over the last 3 years. I don't understand why they even brought Obama's budget to a vote without trying to revise it when it was obvious not a single Dem, Rep or Indie would vote for it. That was strange.

Well there suggestion would most likely be what the president originally suggested. If compromise were how many pages to cut out then I would have expected at least 450-550 pages still, not the pamphlet they ended up moving to the Senate.

Republicans ran up 10 trillion in debt? Haha, thats funny. Both parties have ran it up, but Obama and Bush went extreme.

The current debt is just over 16trillion. It was ~10 trillion when Obama took office, so about 38% (6 trillion) of all the national debt that we've accumulated over 200+ years have been over these last 4 years. Awful. Bush was also horrible at 4trillion over 8 years. Whats really scary is in the last 12 years, our last 2 presidents in office have spent just about 63% of all our debt. Where the previous 43 presidents ran up 37% of the 16trillion.

Stated another way, Obama in 4 years, has ran up the same debt(6trillion) as George Washingkton to Bill Clinton did(6trillion). But both parties own it and have done it.

Obama wants to pay it off though by raising taxes, whereas the Republicans want to continue the current wars and potentially start a few more (based on Ryan's comments in the debate) while also lowering taxes to a completely unreasonable level. Recessions cost money for governments when they are attempting to either stop it or at least soften the blow.

 

[flint757]

Democratically controlled states like California and Illinios are collapsing financially, while Republican run states like Indiana and Texas are thriving.
Just look at what a little union cracking can do in Wisconson.
Scott Walker's leadership has resulted in massive strides for his state's fiscal standing.

Texas isn't that nice of a place if you aren't rich. Education and social programs are absolutely terrible, that is what low taxes and 'conservativism' gave us. it isn't exactly a bed of roses. Doesn't help that a crap ton of people came here as a tax haven essentially and after Katrina the poor from Louisiana moved in and never left as well.

 

[TRENCHLORD]

Hard to argue with some one who lives there, but the other hugely populous states like New York and California (and Illinios also), have unemployment rates a full 2-3 points higher than Texas's relatively low 6.8.

 

[flint757]

Yeah jobs aren't too hard to find ATM. They were 2 years ago at the part time level though. I will say that while our education blows IMO, I am also told that public education in California isn't better so I'm sure there is a factor in common not tax are party related at play. I was just pointing out that while the numbers are better in Texas, even in the best of times financially across the country, our social programs are sub par. Construction takes way too long as well, but I only have that gripe because it impedes me all the god damn time on the road.

 

[TRENCHLORD]

And I'll admit, it's not likely Rick Perry who knows what he's doing, but they evidentely have some good state congressmen who are pro-business.

 

[flint757]

Indeed, Texas Government is very pro-business, in the sense of lower taxes and less regulations. Has it's down sides though, like we used to have a paper factory that made the air very dangerous to breathe in Pasadena (neighbor city). Paper is not a cleanly made product at all. In fact people shouldn't conserve paper to save tree's, but to lower the pollution it takes to make paper (same with soda cans). We've had several accidents, fires etc. in our power plants over the years which I honestly contribute to people cutting corners and/or not being active employee's. Don't know if more regulations would resolve the problem or at the very least limit the frequency, but I imagine it would.