Objectification and Branding of Women in the Guitar World

[narad]

Jackson came out in 2004 with that Jenna Jameson guitar.

A male can be attracted by the eroticism of a sexy woman on a guitar/amp.
A female can mirror her emancipation in the figure of a woman posing for a guitar/amp brand or in a pinup.

They both pay the same price if they want the product.

Brands don't make ethical choices by putting a a girl or a boy on a product, it's just a matter of what could potentially increase sales.

You think a hot woman etched in black-and-white on a $4500 amp faceplate potentially increases sales?

 

[Mathemagician]

You think a hot woman etched in black-and-white on an amp faceplate potentially increases sales?

Unfortunately with the 50 & up crowd it just might. All that lame sexist bullshit is what a portion from that crowd grew up thinking was “cool”.

But in general its 2018 and no one with any sense of taste is going “oh hot chicks on a product, fuck yeah that cool!”

On top of how fucking tired it is to put girls on a product in the hopes n increasing views, it also serves to make whatever it’s attached to look juvenile.

And then you torch whatever sales you may have made from women because duh. Man, it has gotta suck to be a woman trying to do any hobby, who don’t fit into the looks “stereotype”.

 

[narad]

Unfortunately with the 50 & up crowd it just might. All that lame sexist bullshit is what a portion from that crowd grew up thinking was “cool”.

But in general its 2018 and no one with any sense of taste is going “oh hot chicks on a product, fuck yeah that cool!”

On top of how fucking tired it is to put girls on a product in the hopes n increasing views, it also serves to make whatever it’s attached to look juvenile.

Yea, I've been polling some women about the issue. No one's really been offended, but it's been pretty much universally panned for being trashy (or "not good design from a marketing point of view", says Google marketing person).

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Yea, I've been polling some women about the issue. No one's really been offended, but it's been pretty much universally panned for being trashy (or "not good design from a marketing point of view", says Google marketing person).

Yeah, there's a pretty big range of responses to stuff outside of simply being offended. I too spoke to some women in my circle about this.

I don't think 99% of folks who would be put-off by that would describe themselves as "offended" or "hurt" or "upset", I think those are extreme terms used by the folks who see absolutely nothing wrong to cast a poor light on those who do. The whole "look at those crazies offended by a logo" crowd.

 

[Mathemagician]

Yeah it’s not about being “offended” as much as it is eyeroll-inducing.

Guy at work says “I wanna tap that” about a female coworker would be “offensive”. Like dude chill act like the professional you’re supposed to be.

Guy at work says “man I love hot chicks” is just....lame? Like yeah no one doubted that. You’re straight, I would assume you do. Thanks for sharing?

The mud flap-girl vibe from the OP post falls into the second example. It’s just “why even bother?”

 

[narad]

Yeah it’s not about being “offended” as much as it is eyeroll-inducing.

Guy at work says “I wanna tap that” about a female coworker would be “offensive”. Like dude chill act like the professional you’re supposed to be.

Guy at work says “man I love hot chicks” is just....lame? Like yeah no one doubted that. You’re straight, I would assume you do. Thanks for sharing?

The mud flap-girl vibe from the OP post falls into the second example. It’s just “why even bother?”

Yea, mud flap-girl is a good way of putting it. "Hey, look at this pen, when you turn it over her clothes disappear!"-level of sophistication.

But yea, I barely skimmed this topic on TGP where the brand was announced, basically just saying in CS we try and do away with this sort of imagery, maybe we should here as well, and got this response:

People with the “right to be offended” are forgetting that the right to free speech is what’s letting them be offended to begin with.

It’s a sticker on a guitar amp. The world has worse problems to think about. I hope I raise my daughter to be strong enough that she doesn’t feel victimized by something so trivial

It's weird that you can't assess the good/bad/potential ramifications of something without thinking everyone's offended.

 

[Mathemagician]

Well that is what has happened greatly in the US over the last 20 years or so. Every opinion has been “politicized”. So thinking ANYTHING gets one slapped with a label.

Honestly, if it was offensive it’d be an easy fix: make the thing not offensive.

In this case it’s just lame. But they purposefully stretch the meaning until they’ve painted their “enemy” as “weak and offended and my daughter will have a bigger backbone than you”.

It’s like two full standard deviations from what anyone was actually originally saying.

But only NOW they get to be a hero in their own mind. And the “enemy” is just a “weak little bitch”.

Every opinion of conversation gets turned into an “us versus them”. If they want to sell mud flap girl gear let them. But manufacturing/overhead costs are only going up and they’re limiting their market.


To;dr doing lame stuff is bad for business. Regardless of if the owner thinks it’s cool.

 

[Sollipsist]

These guys with their pinup logo are probably LESS creepy to me than a company that says "hey, women also have money, let's come up with psychologically compelling marketing strategies to make them want to give it to us" and then spouts a bunch of PR rhetoric about fairness and equality.

I'll take crass honesty over profit-minded virtue signaling any day. You can't trust anybody who could change their stated ideals at any time because they're afraid of losing money. If tomorrow they decided there was more money to be made exploiting bigotry and prejudice, you can absolutely bet they'd invest in it.

But of course they'd first create a full spectrum propaganda campaign to normalize those values. So far it's worked like a charm to keep us from getting too upset about record military spending and the amazingly profitable prison industry. We certainly let the market decide which kinds of people can be locked up or bombed.

 

[narad]

These guys with their pinup logo are probably LESS creepy to me than a company that says "hey, women also have money, let's come up with psychologically compelling marketing strategies to make them want to give it to us" and then spouts a bunch of PR rhetoric about fairness and equality.

What companies are these? Gibson? Fender? EBMM?

 

[Vyn]

What companies are these? Gibson? Fender? EBMM?

Was just about to chime in myself to say that no music companies are marketing like this. I'm yet to see a piece of gear specifically targeted at girls.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Was just about to chime in myself to say that no music companies are marketing like this. I'm yet to see a piece of gear specifically targeted at girls.

daisy rock, luna guitars, hello kitty guitars. most of the blatantly obvious stuff aiming at a female audience is in the beginner price range. Once you start moving from that price range you don't really see it (probably because any woman who stuck with guitar long enough to buy a decent guitar knows they're not gender specific).

 

[Vyn]

daisy rock, luna guitars, hello kitty guitars. most of the blatantly obvious stuff aiming at a female audience is in the beginner price range. Once you start moving from that price range you don't really see it (probably because any woman who stuck with guitar long enough to buy a decent guitar knows they're not gender specific).

Fair point. Ironically a lot of that stuff has higher sales with dudes. I know more guys with a Hello Kitty strat than girls xD

 

[Mathemagician]

These guys with their pinup logo are probably LESS creepy to me than a company that says "hey, women also have money, let's come up with psychologically compelling marketing strategies to make them want to give it to us" and then spouts a bunch of PR rhetoric about fairness and equality.

I'll take crass honesty over profit-minded virtue signaling any day. You can't trust anybody who could change their stated ideals at any time because they're afraid of losing money. If tomorrow they decided there was more money to be made exploiting bigotry and prejudice, you can absolutely bet they'd invest in it.

But of course they'd first create a full spectrum propaganda campaign to normalize those values. So far it's worked like a charm to keep us from getting too upset about record military spending and the amazingly profitable prison industry. We certainly let the market decide which kinds of people can be locked up or bombed.

Wtf? All companies marketing is based on market research and profitability metrics.

 

[narad]

So the take away here is that it's better to have sexy objectifying logos on old people amps than it is to make a range of cheap guitars designed for young girls (and often made in short scale/body sizes to better suit them). Greaaaaaat.

Sarcasm aside, there's nothing Daisy Rock or others in the guitar space are pushing for "equality". I think that's mostly a made-up criticism.

 

[narad]

daisy rock, luna guitars, hello kitty guitars. most of the blatantly obvious stuff aiming at a female audience is in the beginner price range. Once you start moving from that price range you don't really see it (probably because any woman who stuck with guitar long enough to buy a decent guitar knows they're not gender specific).

Not gender specific, but can still be made a bit more tailored to most women's bodies. EBMM St. Vincent sig. and Rick Toone Dove bass spring to mind.

But I think this is really off bass. Pink sparkly guitars are marketed towards young girls, in the same way black guitars are marketed to metal guys, in the same way scuffed up guitars are marketed to old guys, in the same way Kiesels are marketed to blind people, in the same way outrageous shapes are marketed to visual kei guys. There's nothing wrong with tailoring a product to a market, in fact, it pretty much helps everyone to do so.

 

[Sollipsist]

Just went to Fender.com... very first thing I saw were two ads featuring female guitar players (well, OK one was a ukelele player) , and an interview with a female guitarist about "the struggle and power of the female voice." I'm sure that's just a total coincidence though, and they're not intentionally tailoring their main website to target a specific demographic to sell products

Edit: and yeah, the ukelele was pink.

 

[narad]

Disgusting. Have they no shame?

 

[Sollipsist]

Right? You'd think that they were in business to make money or something.

 

[narad]

Right? You'd think that they were in business to make money or something.

Yea, all feminists should ban together until there's not a single woman on that Fender page! Equality via obscurity!

Oh yea, how does this relate to scantily clad women on amps / the effect of woman as sex objects in branding on guitar products?

 

[mongey]

the logo in the vid is stupid . if they want to put some childish shit on their amps then that's their call . will their product tank partly cause of terrible marketing ? probably . those old white dudes probably think that what the public wants in 2018 .

put a naked chick on a amp or put a giant cock . its rock and roll . make your statement.