One High End Guitar or Several Imports?

[Captain Shoggoth]

I'm in the queue (deposit paid) for a custom that ive dragged out for 3 years changing my mind on, got a custom 10yrs ago that I don't touch anymore, got a sort of kitbashed custom last year that is awesome but turned out too heavy to play live, got a load of lower/mid tier imports (Indo Ibanez, 2000s MIJ Jackson, MIC Ellis Kelly) and now 2 Japanese ESPs (an E-II and a Sado custom).

I vote MIJ ESP, hands down, any day of the week. Nothing else gets anywhere near the playtime. E-II plays great but the custom especially is as nice as a guitar can get and resonates wonderfully in your hands. If you get one, you will be pleased.

Alternatively, what @jephjacques said

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

I like the quality of imports these days so multiple imports. Squier, Yamaha, Schecter, and PRS (SE) are knocking out some bangers.

 

[Marked Man]

I'm not onboard with MII Jacksons. They have some distance to go before they are consistently as good as MIKs.

But every serious guitarist should have at least one Top Gun. Jax USA can cover that.

 

[Emperoff]

Get a SL2. It will be much easier to find good, cheap import guitars in 5 years than afford a USA jackson.

This right here. Jackson USA prices are becoming insane.

 

[JimF]

Thanks all for the input! I wrote this forum post and then went home, woke up the next day with the flu and have only just surfaced properly!
I will reply when I'm at home with a coffee!

 

[budda]

Thanks all for the input! I wrote this forum post and then went home, woke up the next day with the flu and have only just surfaced properly!
I will reply when I'm at home with a coffee!

Congrats on your sl2!

 

[budda]

Double

 

[Emperoff]

Thanks all for the input! I wrote this forum post and then went home, woke up the next day with the flu and have only just surfaced properly!
I will reply when I'm at home with a coffee!

I wish you a swift recovery and a happy NGD

 

[MASS DEFECT]

Just from experience here. I had a LOT of MIJ Jacksons, MII/MIJ Ibanez before. Then I got my USA Jackson SL2H. I have never kept ANY Jackson/Ibanez/LTD imports since then. Having one just puts everything into perspective as to how you are bleeding cash vs quality.

I mean I still buy the import stuff and I do have GAS for some Ibby or ESP/LTD, but I haven't kept anything since the last 8 or so years apart from the keepers.

Better to get a USA now. The prices will be crazier in the future.

 

[JimF]

Lots of great posts - Thank you! Some points I'd considered, some I hadn't. Not ignoring anyone's post but didn't want to reply to same thing to multiple posts.
This purchase won't be happening this year, and yes I will be stretching myself to make it happen.

I've had several Prestige Ibanez RGs, including the ones I have now, and have had a fair few Japanese Jacksons over the years (when they were cheap). I also had a Charvel 650XL that I loved, but after putting a lot of miles on a couple of Dinkies, ended up not getting on with as much as I used to. I wonder if that was because I preferred bolt ons? Then after coming to Ibanez relatively late, I thought "holy sh*t, these are for me". But now I've got two, a hum-hum with an edge trim, and a hum-single with Evertune, how much different can another one be?

I started looking at Jackson Stars because I've always like "played in" feeling guitars with the odd battle scar, especially if they are a decent age, and not just something 4 years old that fell out off its stand. But the fact of wanting a black one, and how bad the rosewood boards looked with black paint, made me look at more expensive guitars with ebony boards, such as the new MJ series Soloist. But after looking into those, ignoring the mixed reports, it felt like a hell of a lot of money for what would still be a compromise. Plus the control layout looks off.

I played a friends USA KV2 about twenty years ago, and all I can remember was how the neck was way thicker than my Japanese Dinky of the time. I don't remember it blowing my dick off in terms of quality or playability, but I don't remember it being bad. That said, it was natural flame with silver hardware, so perhaps that was killing my boner.

I would get the SL2. One great guitar is worth more than its equivalent price in very good guitars IMO. You can get them for under 3k all day on Reverb.

I would not gamble on an older ESP unless you have the money to gamble and possibly take a bath on it. It sounds like you do not have the money to throw away. I strongly disagree with your "investment" or "definitely wouldn't lose money" sentiment, I think you definitely would lose money - and the fact that you're counting on not losing money would make it hurt a lot more. The exception would be if you could try it in person, but that's usually difficult with ESP.

I would not gamble on a custom from a company you have never played an example of. I would probably lose it if I had ordered and waited 2 years for a Suhr custom with a modern elliptical neck. I hate that neck profile, and am glad that I got to experience it firsthand before making that mistake (and I still took a pretty large bath on the one I did buy). The only companies I would consider a custom from right now are Suhr, Anderson, EBMM (if they were to do them), or maybe ESP. Not because other brands aren't making great guitars, but because I know for absolute sure I would like the end result. There are plenty of other people's customs out there for sale for 50-70% of what they had to pay for them.

These are just some insights from someone who has bought - and lost money on - many high end and a number of mid-tier guitars over the last few years. YMMV.

To be honest it hadn't crossed my mind that an ESP would lose money. I'm not bothered about buying an investment per se, I've just seen people selling a few Brandon Ellis Kelly's recently and having to relist them over and over again, dropping the price etc, and realising just how quick they lost their value.

Thats a very good point regarding a custom. To be fair I should have clarified, I already have a custom 7 string that I bought used, but didn't spec myself, and would be looking to use that luthier. So I already have an idea of his work.
But like people have said in other threads, now vs 5-10 years ago has never been a better time to be a guitarist, with all the unusually specced production guitars on the market by big name brands. Ergo there is even less reason to put up with the inherent risks of getting a custom guitar.

I am also quite materialistic about my hobbies. It's nice to have good quality gear. It's nice to have gear that's maybe a little nicer than you should have. It's also nice to have guitars that are so cool when you get them out you think "jeeeez this is nice". Plus the romantic side of me believes there's different songs in different guitars, or to put it rationally, different guitars inspire differently.

But how differently can a green superstrat inspire me over a red superstrat with a slightly different neck profile...

Always wanted an sl2? Get the sl2.

See that's how I was beginning to think. I'm 38, no kids, me and my lady both have stable well-paying jobs, and whilst the mortgage hike hasn't been easy, we're fixed for two years and making it work. But what I'm wondering is do I want an SL2, or do I want this teenage wet dream nostalgia of when I couldn't even see a USA Jackson in the flesh, and actually what I want is something that feels like an Ibanez RG with a painted neck, not a Jackson.

get what you actually want or you'll end up getting the placeholder things AND eventually just getting what you wanted in the first place

I think I knew this deep down when I kept hesitating to pull the trigger on the Brandon Ellis Kelly.

Agree with getting what you really want.

Keep in mind that neck carve, weight and tone can be vastly different between M-II, SL2 and RG550. Try all and see what fits your hands best.

Yes this of course. It was something I'd been optimistic they would all fit into the "me like" category.

"One high-end guitar or several imports"

Several high-end imports for me.

The two terms are not mutually exclusive.

Yes that is very true, I'm not meaning to act disparagingly towards Japanese instruments etc. I was meaning more like an LTD1000 series, or a ESP Standard.

To me the problem is, high end guitars are not always good. And it seems like putting all your eggs in one basket. I mean you can lust after that one guitar til you're blue in the face, get it, and realize hey, this guitar kind of sucks. Or I don't like it, it's not right for me.

On the other hand, if you don't get it you might always think about what you possibly missed out on.

So if it feels important to have the fancy thing: Get the high-end guitar and prepare for disappointment. But if you just want to play music, get whatever guitar that feels and sounds right.

Personally I like fancy things but I've also realized that just because something is fancy doesn't mean it's useful to me. A guitar having a cool name on the headstock doesn't make it play or sound better necessarily. I might sit down with some ESPs and LTDs and choose to record with an LTD because it sounds better.

ESP standard series was just a production line of guitars, and I'm not sure they necessarily used the best materials all the time. They're not like the custom shop stuff just because they say ESP.

About Jackson I'll just say if you get an SL2, be careful and make sure the bridge route isn't misaligned.

Would I sell an expensive guitar to buy several cheap ones? If I didn't like that expensive guitar, yes. If I did like it, no.

Would I sell several less expensive guitars to buy one expensive one? If I didn't like those less expensive guitars, yes. If I did like those guitars, no.

I guess this all shows how important it is to get the instrument in your hands. The misaligned bridge route comment also makes me think perhaps I'm aiming high to avoid such issues, but in actual fact because instruments are made from natural materials by human beings, that there are going to be quirks, idiosyncrasies, and errors, regardless of the price.

 

[JimF]

What is your use case?

Use case is bedroom rockstar. Some friends and I have a recording band, but we don't play live anymore. It was more to purchase an expensive nice thing, and hoping it would inspire me to play more, practice more etc. Also I've started enjoying playing along to bands again, so would be nice to have something in standard tuning. Any other nice guitars I get I want to have them setup in Drop C so I can use them with the band.

Yea, I mean, lots to potentially comment on.

- I wouldn't recommend a custom given your level of uncertainty here. In my experience of ordering dozens, they're almost always a wash. I lost so much money back in the day ordering the latest and greatest custom...I'm probably forever in the negatives on gear. And that's when all the cool used stuff was 1/5th the price it is now.

- I don't think there's a strong winner between the SL2 and the M-II. I guess the M-IIs tend to be cheaper -- I've seen some steals out here lately I was tempted to pickup just because I figured I'd at some point be able to trade for an amp or another guitar I wanted, but ultimately felt like too much hassle. If I had known you were looking, I'd have hit you up! But I think there are comparable QC and issues on either, since you're talking older guitars. But if you have a leaning towards the SL2, get the SL2, even if it's 50% more expensive.

- I don't see the point really of having multiple meh guitars. It's just more maintenance, really.

I've come from a place of having multiple meh guitars, and that drove meet minimise my collection down to maybe 2. I sold one, added two more, but there's something very very enjoyable about having all your guitars being of a certain level of quality.
Do you think the MIIs you've seen have been cheaper because they're native?
I very much appreciate the offer but don't hit me up on anything at the moment - it will be too tempting and I don't have the cash!
For a while I viewed a custom guitar as being a symbolism of perfection, flawless in every way and all things to all men, but after reading through a lot of this forum's posts, and I think a lot of your posts in particular, brought me back down to earth with the realisation that they are made by humans, with human eyes, human hands etc, and if you are looking into customs because of quality, rather than an unobtainable spec, then its not the correct path for you.
A lot of that made me realise I maybe should buy one of the top end RG5000 series with the ebony board, and have the body refinished into a colour I like, and maybe some custom coloured pickups. Then I'd have something of a known quality, personalised enough to make me feel I had a unique guitar, whilst only having to trust a paint guy with a body, rather than trusting an independent luthier with my life savings.

95% of the people on thus planet are not Americans. So the term "import" is a little iffy. Also consider Caparison, which are basically Jackson's, but better. Also what is wrong with a high end NEW Ibanez. And lastly I think that Horizon, being neck trough is closer to SL2 that MII.

Yep, I'm in that 95%. I'm in the UK. But you knew what I meant didn't you
I should have said "Non USA, Non JDM" because that's pretty much the pinnacle of production metal guitars.
I've always loved Caparisons, but I don't like the 24.75" scale length, and the Horus seems to be the only model that catches my eye. The extra frets, the HS pickups, the hand sponged finishes! But they're quite expensive still.

Scratch that last thing. MII is also neck trough, Im stupid.

You were correct, older MIIs were bolt on.

Buy the best guitar you can afford that you like the most.

Or you can buy several lesser guitars, own them for a while, not use them that much, mod them, change a lot of strings, and then end up selling them to buy the guitar you really wanted.

I can't decide if that second point sounds good, in a way to experience a few different things, or sounds bad in a futile, waste of money to get to the same destination, way.

If you always wanted an SL2 get an SL2.

Or a Jackson Stars.

As mentioned before, Jackson Stars with ebony boards are few and far between, and I'm not sure if what I think an SL2 is, is actually what an SL2 is.

Get a SL2. It will be much easier to find good, cheap import guitars in 5 years than afford a USA jackson.

That's a very very good point. I'd gone for a while without looking for USA Jacksons and couldn't believe the prices they were commanding now.

... so is this "new to you" guitar a whim of yours...? Do you really NEED a new guitar? The question about a higher end one versus several import is related to what do you want to do with such guitar(s). It looks to me that there is no real purpose besides the "novelty" in your hands like an excuse to excite one's creativity...?

Oh this is 100% just a Treat for Jim

I don't NEED a new guitar other than potentially wanting to keep one in standard tuning rather than changing one of my recording guitars to that. But with that said, if I spend 2 grand on an instrument you can bet your balls I'm using it on a recording.

So, having this reminded, I see the following paths:
1 - get a guitar that challenges you, either by its specs, either by its setup (different tuning, string set, fretless?...)
2 - get a guitar that comforts you
3 - get many guitars so you can set them up in different ways (mod them to your preferences), some in your comfort zone, some out of it...?
4 - get your "I always wanted" guitar
5 - get a custom in either previous points 1 or 2
6 - get something flashy to hang up on the wall...

I do keep finding myself looking at "traditional with a twist" Fender types. Some interesting coloured Cabronita clones, or 1970s Greco strats with PAF humbuckers and just the tiniest amount of genuine wear... But I then question myself as all I listen to/play is metal. I was at a friend's house last month and specifically remembered he had an older Mexican Strat. I managed to have a quick play and couldn't believe how thick the neck was. It wasn't uncomfortable but it just filled my hand compared to what I'm used to. And I don't have small hands. I'd love to play the intro to Sultans of Swings a few times, but would I really be using that one when I go back to learning Ashes of the Wake. In buying something different and challenging, do I end up buying something I wouldn't use?
That said, I used to have an awful flying V copy, and that was fun to play as it felt cool.

Just from experience here. I had a LOT of MIJ Jacksons, MII/MIJ Ibanez before. Then I got my USA Jackson SL2H. I have never kept ANY Jackson/Ibanez/LTD imports since then. Having one just puts everything into perspective as to how you are bleeding cash vs quality.

I mean I still buy the import stuff and I do have GAS for some Ibby or ESP/LTD, but I haven't kept anything since the last 8 or so years apart from the keepers.

Better to get a USA now. The prices will be crazier in the future.

Thank you! This is exactly the situation I was looking for. As in, there's probably nothing particularly wrong with the other guitars you had, but knowing they're not the SL2H makes you not play them! So they become superfluous.

My problem is I get so incremental with my plans.
"This £1000 Ibanez looks nice"
Becomes "If I spend £1500 I'm getting into used J Custom territory"
Which becomes "Have you seen what £2000 gets you?!"
And then I'm filling out the Jackson Custom Shop quote forms again, and what do I want that's so special? A reverse headstock SL2 with no pickup rings in seafoam green. Not exactly a groundbreaking custom shop job.
Something that I could literally get 90% of the same results myself with a DXMG, fretwork practice, and just accepting a bolt on instead of neck through (which I do for my RGs anyway).



May I don't want an SL2. Maybe I want what I think an SL2 is. Which is just a feeling of nostalgia for when the JCF Online forum actually had posts on it, and I used to play gigs lol.
I think the main consensus is to actually get some guitars in my hands before I start making concrete plans.

Someone also mentioned about getting a new Ibanez. I would, if any of the finishes interested me. Also, I'm very much a 2 dimensional "volume on full, never touch the tone knob" player, and seeing these Ibanez RGs with the volume knob, the tone knob, the 5 way switch, the push pull for changing the voicing on the Fishmans, the miniswitch so you can open your garage door etc etc, all seems wasted on me, so I kinda don't want it on my guitar. Last time I recorded I was so aware of before every take I HAD to make sure the volume was fully up, make sure the tone was fully up, make sure I hadn't pulled the coil split on the vol, make sure I had the bridge pickup selected etc. It became like some stressful automatic tick upon hearing the metronome.
What I'm getting at is I almost don't want all this extra bullshit on my alleged Holy Grail guitar.


Thanks for reading!

 

[odibrom]

Ok, so you know you want a new guitar, but aren't sure what for...

.... huuummm... you want a nice piece in your hands, not over complicated, but strong enough to make you feel connected to it...

... allow me to remind you that a guitar is only as good as its setup fits the player's needs, so, be specific, what are your needs in this guitar? What I found so far was:
- something that feels unique (hence the thought of going custom) and, therefore, good quality.
- not over complicated in the wiring department, so 1 vol + pickup switch kind of thing... pickup layout HH, HSH, HSS, HS, H...? I'm assuming a humbucker in the bridge to be mandatory...
- interesting color / visuals... so no boring black or dull colors
- Neck through and reverse headstock would be cool, but not mandatory
- NO SMALL SCALE LENGTH (PRS and Gibson are out of consideration)
- NO PICKUP RINGS
- NO FAT NECK...

... let's say a used guitar modded to your specs could eventually tick all options...?

How about investing REALLY hard on setting up an already owned guitar to the specs you like?... or, how about investing temporarily on a workhorse in order to take it to another level, learn from the experience and decide then on what you really want this new guitar to be?
- I'll say that the fret and string relation is the MOST IMPORTANT aspect a guitar has by far and against all other specs. The fretjob and fretboard radius are single handed the most important parts of a setup. This obviously includes the nut and the bridge since these do belong in the fret department of a guitar.
- followed by this is the electronic department, since it's where the sound comes from to be amplified. What pickups and controls do you like or want for this guitar?
- last is the body style and finish. The body style interferes with the guitar's comfort (and setup) and the finish with its overall visual, so it's a almost only cosmetic.

Pick a workhorse guitar you have and elevate it to another level of quality, then decide by experience on what you really want...?

 

[budda]

buy a used SL2. Sell it if you dont like it and try the second choice. Its not life or death here.

I have owned 4 gibson CS guitars and kept two. I have played maybe triple that in total.

I didnt play for the last two weeks and clocked some time today with my lpc. Still no regrets in getting it.

 

[jaxadam]

Several high end guitars.

 

[will_shred]

Several high end guitars, YOLO

 

[soul_lip_mike]

One high end. When I see dudes with like 8 solars it’s like, why did you buy 8 Honda civics?

 

[odibrom]

Several high end guitars.

... this is the way...

@soul_lip_mike because one may just not enjoy going grocery shopping with a Ferrari...?

 

[MikeH]

Without going into the nuance of your wants/needs, I'm an OG board member here, so I'm obligated to say "used Prestige" whenever anyone even offers that up as an option.

That being said, my genuine answer would be a real ESP or a used USA/CS Jackson. Owning over 20 Ibanez guitars, I think it's clear where my allegiance lies, but I have also had a change of heart in recent years after playing some crazy nice M-I/IIs. And I've constantly lusted over some CS Jacksons I've seen over the years.

 

[soul_lip_mike]

... this is the way...

@soul_lip_mike because one may just not enjoy going grocery shopping with a Ferrari...?

This is a bad analogy because a Ferrari is not practical for hauling groceries. A high end guitar is used for the same thing as 8 shitty imports - playing music.

 

[jephjacques]

One high end. When I see dudes with like 8 solars it’s like, why did you buy 8 Honda civics?

be fair, Solars are the Corolla of guitars