PanterA...

[shotgunn]

Man, you guys shift topics alot

But yeah, to voice in my opinion on the tone thing, tbh it's what suits the music style the best. Like Matt put it, it's to put emphasis on the rawness of the music, alot like Lamb of God does with their tone (and it's also how both bands sound soo heavy in D). Band's albums that nail amazing tone for me though, would have to be Nevermore's Dead Heart in a Dead World and The Absence's Riders of the Plague. Two best guitar tones ever. I still can't get over the meatiness on Riders of the Plague

Well, technically it's all one topic. PanterA. Different 'sub' topics I guess.

 

[XeoFLCL]

Well, technically it's all one topic. PanterA. Different 'sub' topics I guess.

True. Then sub-topics it is

 

[petereanima]

Anyway, as I always say (should really take my only advice) - Nobody bangs their head to your fucking tone, so to write someone off and to have little friendship groups of haters based on a guitar tone is captain lame ftw sauce IMO.

you got me wrong i think - i'm not a hater. i wouldnt own every pantera record if i was a hater, but i cant stand this glorification going on. i like many pantera songs, but still cant stand the guitar sound on many of them. its not all black/white, i can like a record, but still can have see some critic points at it. especcially when its about Pantera i feel like 99% of the people are like "OMG, yeah, Dimebag fucking pwned, RIP mate, blablabla" - its fucking kindergarten. yeah, he is dead, yeah, that is horrible. but man, some people should really get over it, and maybe allow themselves a more realistic view on things. were still a guitar forum, arent we? so a critical look on guitar tones on records and the abillity to discuss it is something i could expect from the people here, no?

Disgustingly beautiful? hehehehe

Love these fuckers. It´s weird that people talk shit about them and/or complain about Anselmo being a dick, Dimebag´s tone or whatever but they just don´t realize that the majority of "brootalz" bands that appeared in the late 90´s and today borrowed A LOT from Pantera, and some of them borrowed everything minus the good songs. The whole macho stereotype that Alselmo did is emulated by 99% of the metal bands today. I lost track of how many songs sound like I´m Broken on the vocal melodies nowadays...

Pantera fucking rules. My 2 cents.

vice versa: Pantera borrowed "a lot" from Exhorder, and Anselmo borrowed more than just a lot from Hardcore bands (macho stereotype etc.). dont get me wrong: nothing wrong with that, but thats a (small) example for the "glorification" i meant. "I'm broken" is still a badass bastard of a song, and imho their best one ever - but i own about 2500 CDs and i cannot think of a single song sounding like i'm broken.

 

[Mattayus]

HAUCH, right on my man!

you got me wrong i think - i'm not a hater. i wouldnt own every pantera record if i was a hater, but i cant stand this glorification going on. i like many pantera songs, but still cant stand the guitar sound on many of them. its not all black/white, i can like a record, but still can have see some critic points at it. especcially when its about Pantera i feel like 99% of the people are like "OMG, yeah, Dimebag fucking pwned, RIP mate, blablabla" - its fucking kindergarten. yeah, he is dead, yeah, that is horrible. but man, some people should really get over it, and maybe allow themselves a more realistic view on things. were still a guitar forum, arent we? so a critical look on guitar tones on records and the abillity to discuss it is something i could expect from the people here, no?

Wasn't talkin about you dude, didn't even notice you posted! But even so, in my post I did say that even I, probably the biggest fanboy of them all (for at least 11 years, so I'm not a wagon hopper) hate his tone, so that wasn't my point.

The glorification of his death has absolutely ruined my faboyism, and it's thanks to people like Dean and Metal Hammer that makes it almost shameful to admit I'm such a massive fan. If it weren't for him I wouldn't have picked up the guitar and wouldn't have so much groove to my riffs. Thankfully though I didn't inherit his taste in tone But it was a sad sad day in my life when I felt like a teeny bopper for wearing a Pantera t-shirt

 

[petereanima]

ah o.k., so nevermind my post, i thought that was directed towards me haha...

 

[Fionn]

The glorification of his death has absolutely ruined my faboyism, and it's thanks to people like Dean and Metal Hammer that makes it almost shameful to admit I'm such a massive fan. If it weren't for him I wouldn't have picked up the guitar and wouldn't have so much groove to my riffs. Thankfully though I didn't inherit his taste in tone But it was a sad sad day in my life when I felt like a teeny bopper for wearing a Pantera t-shirt

damn right!

 

[Hawkevil]

I admit that I didn't get into Pantera until after Dime had died but in no way does that make me a fanboy. I'm not flaming anyone i'm just saying that becoming a fan after Dimebag died does not make you a fanboy.

I can remember listening to songs like I'm Broken and Shattered and thinking OMFG!

The thing that made Dimebag stand out from other metal guitarists is his awesome style. Little bends here and there and a vibrato so awesome it influenced me to change the way I play guitar.

Nowadays most metal guitarists are followers of people that came before and aren't really pushing new boundaries apart from a few guys such as Jeff Loomis and even Bulb. I've spent countless hours studying Dimes playing and will spend countless more no doubt.

Anyway, ignore me haha. Just trying to state a fact that to be a true fan you didn't have to listen to Pantera before Dimebag died.

 

[s_k_mullins]

Oh and FWIW, the TGSTK era live tone was:

2 Triaxis pre's.

2 rackmount Dual rec heads.

Seriously?? I never fuckin knew that.. but thats pretty cool

And for those of you who still think they are bigots, dig up some old footage of Dime getting drunk with Rocky George, and maybe google the name "Tristan Grigsby".

Yeah anyone calling Dimebag a racist is just sadly misinformed or looking to start shit. He never said or did anything remotely racist. And was indeed great friends with Rocky and Tristan and they often partied together during tours. Just cuz he was from texas or sported the confederate flag on his guitar doesn't make him a bigot.

 

[Triple-J]

The glorification of his death has absolutely ruined my faboyism, and it's thanks to people like Dean and Metal Hammer that makes it almost shameful to admit I'm such a massive fan. If it weren't for him I wouldn't have picked up the guitar and wouldn't have so much groove to my riffs. Thankfully though I didn't inherit his taste in tone But it was a sad sad day in my life when I felt like a teeny bopper for wearing a Pantera t-shirt

I was having a similar discussion with a friend about Nirvana recently as the way you feel about Pantera is how I feel about Nirvana.
They were the 1st band that opened my eyes to both metal and punk rock they also made me realise what production was too as all their albums have very different tones and listening to them made me appreciate and understand production.
When you watch a Nirvana dvd such as "Unplugged" or "Live Tonite Sold Out" you can clearly see that Kurt was a guy with a very sarcastic sense of humour and an informed opinion on the world, tbh he seemed like a guy you could have had great conversation and a laugh with and I would have loved to have met him and Dime too.

BUT most media today push Kurt as a bizarre charicature of a rock star this tragic humourless figure who spent all his life strung out on drugs depressed writing songs until he killed himself, they portray Kurt as a victim and a figure of pity yet the truth is actually quite the opposite.

When someone dies the media destroy everything about what made that person great and it pisses me off as it's not just Kurt or Dimebag that have been transformed by the press in the wake of their death.
Michael Jackson is now being portrayed by the press as some kind of deity a weird cross between Forrest Gump and Jesus Christ imo the situation with him is worse than Princess Di, I prefer to remember MJ for what he truly was a guy who just like any one of us made a lot of good choices in his life but also a lot of bad ones too.

Bottom line is that the media fucking ruin everything as any musician artist or actor that has died in the past few years has had the media suck up their life and spit it back out in the form of a totally different story.

 

[shotgunn]

Anyway, ignore me haha. Just trying to state a fact that to be a true fan you didn't have to listen to Pantera before Dimebag died.

Very true... I was born in 1981. Led Zeppelin had come and gone before that. I am a HUGE Led Zeppelin fan, bigger than some fans that were actually THERE. Just an example.

However, there are some posers out there. We know who they are, as do they.

 

[Fred]

One listen to "Shattered" was all it took to convince me I'd been an idiot for not having got into Pantera before. My idea of the perfect metal band, for sure.

 

[shotgunn]

vice versa: Pantera borrowed "a lot" from Exhorder, and Anselmo borrowed more than just a lot from Hardcore bands (macho stereotype etc.). dont get me wrong: nothing wrong with that, but thats a (small) example for the "glorification" i meant. "I'm broken" is still a badass bastard of a song, and imho their best one ever - but i own about 2500 CDs and i cannot think of a single song sounding like i'm broken.

That's what is soooo awesome about music. How good an artist or a band is, is equal to how creatively they plagiarize their influences.

Metallica = Motorhead + Diamond Head
Pantera = Black Sabbath + Metallica + Exhorder, etc...
Dimebag = EVH + Randy Rhodes + Ace Frehely
Phil = Robert Plant (frontman qualities) + Halford + steroid rage

If you listen to Diamond Head you hear some WICKED awesome riffs. Played by some VERY subpar players.

I haven't heard any Exhorder, so I cannot comment on them.

Just like Solomon said... "There is nothing new under the sun."

We just have to find new and exciting ways of regurgitating something that came before us.

shotgunn

 

[lucasreis]

you got me wrong i think - i'm not a hater. i wouldnt own every pantera record if i was a hater, but i cant stand this glorification going on. i like many pantera songs, but still cant stand the guitar sound on many of them. its not all black/white, i can like a record, but still can have see some critic points at it. especcially when its about Pantera i feel like 99% of the people are like "OMG, yeah, Dimebag fucking pwned, RIP mate, blablabla" - its fucking kindergarten. yeah, he is dead, yeah, that is horrible. but man, some people should really get over it, and maybe allow themselves a more realistic view on things. were still a guitar forum, arent we? so a critical look on guitar tones on records and the abillity to discuss it is something i could expect from the people here, no?



vice versa: Pantera borrowed "a lot" from Exhorder, and Anselmo borrowed more than just a lot from Hardcore bands (macho stereotype etc.). dont get me wrong: nothing wrong with that, but thats a (small) example for the "glorification" i meant. "I'm broken" is still a badass bastard of a song, and imho their best one ever - but i own about 2500 CDs and i cannot think of a single song sounding like i'm broken.

I agree with you on a lot of things. The I´m Broken example is more about vocal melodies sounding like I´m broken, like the "ohhhhh" and stuff, I´ll actually find some songs with the same vocal style and post their youtube videos here as soon as I find the time to do it. I know Machine Head has a couple of I´m Broken copycat songs in terms of vocals.

 

[shotgunn]

One thing I have discovered in trying to 'get in the ballpark' with Dimebag's tone is this...

We can all (hopefully) tell that he has attenuated the mids quite a bit. We also know that he used a PQ-3 (4) before the RG-100 preamp. This is mainly to increase the gain.

In my years of tweaking my RG-100 setup to get a similar crunch as Dime I have learned of few things. He boosts the mids BEFORE the preamp. This gives it kind of a 'half cocked wah wah sound'. This is the most obvious of the frequencies that he would boost before the preamp. 'Where you come from' is a great example of this. In the studio the frequency is tuned to whatever key he is playing in. This is between 700-800Hz usually with a fairly narrow 'Q' or bandwidth. Approximately 1/3 Octave. He also boosted some upper mid freq's around 2.5kHz and perhaps another around 10-12kHz to get that razor sharp sizzle without being TOO ear piercing.

Then, after the preamp he would remove the mids at almost the same exact frequency. After experimenting with this I realized, this is part of how can get such a 'mid-less' sound without thinning it out completely. Boost mids before preamp, cut mids after preamp.

Sound familar................


EVH baby, Dime was a copy cat, just like US!!!! Different amps, (Dime used the MXR 6 Band just like EVH. Eddie did a frown curve before preamp, and smiley curve after. Dime copied that same idea to get more gain before, and more shaping after. Dime stumbled across a completely different tone (granted the amps are VERY different) by doing the same thing as his idol.

Just an observation.

I have had the hardest time tweaking the bass. I use mesa cabinets, which I feel are quite 'bass heavy'. The RG-100's 'bass' control is pretty intense. I have to keep it pretty low. Even at low settings it is still pretty boomy. I used to have a Randall Jaguar cab (from the Washburn owning Randall era.) I don't know how similar to the original Jaguar cabs these were, but mine had NO BASS from more than 5-10 feet away. When I had this cabinet I also had 2 RG-100's from the Washburn Era as well. Now I have the original carpeted RG-100 (pre Washburn). It seems like they would sound good together (bass heavy amp, bass lacking cab.)

Don't take this like "I wanna sound exactly like Dime" Believe me, I know I NEVER will. I just really admire the pure aggression of his dominating tone. When I tweak my RG-100 rig to be 'in the ballpark' with Dime I get a VERY satisfying metal tone. Especially with my 7's. Even more so with my downtuned 7 (down 1 whole step.)

I love metal, I love metal guitar tone.

I'm gonna go play now, I hope I don't wake my kids up. Please GOD LET THEM SLEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And to think, I've got a THIRD KID ON THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 4-5 more weeks.

Later,

shotgunn

 

[shotgunn]

good call man!!!

 

[Triple7]

^awesome^

 

[kung_fu]

a double dose

 

[Triple7]

How do you post videos?

 

[Arminius]

How do you post videos?

copy/paste the url

And back on topic, i pantera

 

[Triple7]

[myspacevid]1305183[/myspacevid]