Peavey 6505+ & attenuator recording problems

[rosso]

Hi, guys.

Lets start with this - I'm REALLY FRUSTRATED !!!
Two weeks ago I bought an attenuator and the only reason I bought it for was silent recording. This is the attenuator:
PicValley.net - FREE anonymous photo hosting and photo sharing
PicValley.net - FREE anonymous photo hosting and photo sharing
A bulgarian tech is building them and they are pretty popular around here.

My signal chain is:
Guitar ---- Digitech Screamin' blues (used as a clean boost) ---- Boss NS2 (4 cable method) ---- Peavey 6505+ 112 combo ---- Attenuator

I take the balanced XLR Line out of the attenuator and it goes to my Line 6 Studio UX2 mic 1 Input. After that I have my laptop with Reaper as a DAW.

The line level from the attenuator is around 3'o clock and the Mic gain on the Line 6 interface is around noon. This setting makes my signal peak around -6dB (is that how it should be???).

I'm using LeCab to load impulses (usually Sperimental Pack and Guitar Hacks). I'm also using a high pass filter around 80Hz and a low pass filter around 10kHz.


Now comes the frustrating part:
My recordings sound like SHIT !!! I've achieved much better sound using only my UX2 and a bunch of free LePou plugins. The sound lacks depth, punch, balls and thickness... it really sucks big time.

The question is - am I doing something wrong?

I know the problem isn't in my amp and my stomp boxes - they sound great. So it must be something with the tweaking and the stupid impulses... I don't know.

Tomorrow I'll post some samples of the attenuator line out - with and without impulses and another one using only plugins for reference.


Thanks !!!

P.S. Just found this thread :
Help! Odd clipping / bad sound - 6505+ 112 DI, impulses, need advice - Ultimate Metal Forum
My sound is simillar to his and I don't like it

 

[sh4z]

So let me get this straight you have plugged your amp speaker lead directly into the into the attenuator ? and then into your UX2 effectively bypassing the speaker.

I had a similar problem to you. I did a bit of research into attenuators because of where I live I can't play my amp very loud often; I was also interested in it for recording purposes. I didn't end up getting one though..

I tried using the XLR out at the back - which seemed like a good idea; but it didnt sound that great.

What I ended up doing with the my 112 combo was running a dummy lead out of the effects loop. Not the greatest setup but it works. Then plugging the output from the loop into my EQ then into the recording interface. This captures the pre-cab sound directly. I can also remove some of the fizz and add a touch more "thump" to the tone I have gotten some decent tones using my amp this way applying various cab impulses to the tracks in Reaper.

I would think it might be a problem with the attenuator if it sounds good without it..

 

[rosso]

Thanks for the info, but I'm affraid it doesn't help me much
I have plugged my power amp out lead into the attenuator and the speaker cable is also plugged to the attenuator. I'm not bypassing the speaker - the attenuator is sitting between the power amp and the speaker and it's taking some (or all) of the load so the speaker can be quiter. The attenuator is supposed to take the signal after the power amp section. That's why I bought it - to get that sweet power tube amp saturation.

Don't get me wrong - the amp hooked to the attenuator sounds great, but when I try to record the signal and add impulses it sounds like shit.

I'm also aware of the method you're using.

 

[Chris Finster]

perhaps try a diff impulse and or IR reader....perhaps theres an error in that part of the chain? (doubt it, but worth a min to check)

Also from what i understand the 6505 sounds can get pretty raspy past a certain point, so maybe dont push the amp into oblivion as well.

 

[rosso]

Bump.

Finally had some spare time to do a couple of samples (been very busy the last few days). Sorry for the quality, but everything has been recorded in a hurry and I don't have studio monitors

So I have the settings of my 6505 set to:
Lead Channel
Pre - 4
Post - 3
Low - 4
Mid - 6
High - 5
Resonance - 3
Presence - 7

I have recorded 5 tracks:
1) 6505 mono track centered
2) 6505 quad tracked (100/80 left - 80/100 right)
3) 6505 without an IR - just the raw signal from the attenuator
4) Reference sample recorded with LePou LE456 amp model - mono track
5) Same as number 4 but double tracked (100 left - 100 right)

Here you go:
Tests by Martin Mihov on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Again sorry for the shitty playing - just evaluate the sound.

Thanks.

 

[rosso]

Anybody???

 

[Leec]

I use a very similar set up to you and get tones I'm really happy with. I use a Palmer PGA-04 and turn off its speaker simulation and use impulses, so in effect I'm doing the same as you.

From what you've described of your set up, it seems like you have nothing wrong there. And listening to your clips, I can't hear anything that's leaping out as massively wrong. I actually think your 6505 clips sounded better than your Poulin ones.

Set your Rhythm channel like this:
Pre - 5
Bass - 6
Mid - 6
Treble - 6
Post - whatever you need

Not sure how to advise on your attenuator/loadbox, but just be sensible with it.

In LeCab, load up the Sperimental Engl 4x12 New 8 impulse.

Record a new clip and let's see how that sounds. For reference, this clip was done with almost exactly those settings:

 

[rosso]

Thanks, dude !!!
I'll try that asap.

 

[Leec]

By the way, I'm not expecting you to like that tone, just seeing if we can get the same sort of sound with your setup, so we can trouble shoot it.

 

[rosso]

OK.

I uploaded two more clips with the settings you suggested and the same IR ( "6505 mono rhytm" and "6505 dual rhytm"). You can listen to them, but I'm affraid I'm no way close to your sound (which is awesome BTW). Links:
http://soundcloud.com/martin-mihov/6505-mono-rhytm
http://soundcloud.com/martin-mihov/6505-dual-rhytm

Please - ADVICE IS NEEDED !!! Why is my tone sucking so bad ???

 

[Leec]

Ok, something's not 'right' there. It does sound radically different. It's very muffled. It may be just the sound you get from that particular loadbox and not much is going to change that. You say it's made by a local guy? Does he know his shit (it looks well made, so I'd guess so, but you never know)?

Ok, let's see how things are going if you cut out the loadbox. Run a line from your Effects Send into your soundcard and apply an impulse to that (you'll want to have the cab connected whilst doing this to take the load, obviously). See what you get with that. If the sound is clear and what you'd expect, it's time (sadly) for a different box.

 

[illfists]

buy a 57.

 

[rosso]

Ok, something's not 'right' there. It does sound radically different. It's very muffled. It may be just the sound you get from that particular loadbox and not much is going to change that. You say it's made by a local guy? Does he know his shit (it looks well made, so I'd guess so, but you never know)?

Ok, let's see how things are going if you cut out the loadbox. Run a line from your Effects Send into your soundcard and apply an impulse to that (you'll want to have the cab connected whilst doing this to take the load, obviously). See what you get with that. If the sound is clear and what you'd expect, it's time (sadly) for a different box.

Done. Samples:
Preamp dual by Martin Mihov on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
Preamp mono by Martin Mihov on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

I've used the lead channel for these two with my settings above, but I used the IR you suggested. I think it's less muffled now, but I'm not sure if the quality is better. BTW I used KeFir as an IR loader on the last couple of samples to make sure it's not LeCab's fault (and it's not )

Again sorry for the shitty playing, but everything is done on the first take. Also keep in mind that there's NO post processing done except the LPF and HPF so a little EQ and compression could make it sound better.

I think I may be going back to PodFarm, Lepou and Revalver and ditch the attenuator idea. Unfortunately the SM57 route is out of the question for me

 

[Leec]

That sounds a lot less muffled, yeah. It's a big improvement. Based on that, I'd say it's your attenuator that's colouring the sound. A different box (I use the Palmer, so it's the only one I can personally recommend) will probably get you where you want to be. If you haven't got the money to spend out on one at the moment, then I guess LePou will get you closer for now. Shame, man.

Any chance you can take it back, or sell it on? It's a shame to have such a great amp and yet have to rely on VST amps (btw, I also own PodFarm, and I'd say LePou and TSE's plugins are better than PodFarm).

 

[rosso]

I think I can sell it with minimal loss, but that's not the point. The sad thing is I wanted to record my amp and now I'm stuck with stupid VSTs again .... blah.
Thanks for all your help though

 

[N1h1l1ty]

Sorry to necro-bump, but have any of you had experience using the Weber Mass for tracking the line out into an impulse loader? I'm seriously looking at this option right now and want to know if the Weber colors the speaker out

 

[studmiester7]

Try this with your head; I also have the 6505+. Plug in your speaker directly to the speaker output of your head. Now take one end of another speaker cable, and insert it into the effects loop send, then the other end into your interface. Then stick 3/4 inch adapter into the return of the effects loop. This will bypass the sound's output to the speakers, while still supplying the load to the cab. You'll be able to record silently, but at least this way you'll know if it's the attenuator that's giving you the grief, 'cause that's what my money's on.