Please tell me someone on here has heard about "OCCUPY WALLSTREET"

[synrgy]

I'm torn. I kind of like that it's still somewhat vague, because the very moment 'they' come up with a list of specific demands, the subversion will begin, and life will go right back to where it was, as though this never even happened.

IE, "Here's what they want, now let's figure out how to trick them into thinking they're getting it without actually giving it to them.."

 

[UnderTheSign]

I'm torn. I kind of like that it's still somewhat vague, because the very moment 'they' come up with a list of specific demands, the subversion will begin, and life will go right back to where it was, as though this never even happened.

IE, "Here's what they want, now let's figure out how to trick them into thinking they're getting it without actually giving it to them.."

Yeah, but how will being vague get you anywhere? "there's something wrong, we just can't tell you what it is!"

Also, this is how NOT to protest, along with not knowing what you're talking about (hipster-protests, whoo!).

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Nation Waiting For Protesters To Clearly Articulate Demands Before Ignoring Them | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

[The Reverend]

Man, I feel really bad about all you guys sitting behind computer screens, some of whom are clearly well-informed on the bullshit going on in the world economy and not spreading that shit around.

You're missing the point. This isn't some bullshit Adbusters (sorry, Explorer) plotted to take over the world. Consider it like the Civil Rights Movement: Rosa Parks didn't give two shits about changing the segregation laws in the South, she was just tired as fuck and didn't want to give up her seat. You take what you get, any momentum whatsoever, and you fucking run, because you won't get this chance again.

The point is not to show up with a list of demands and say, "Look, Mr. 1%, this is the problem I'm having with you." Donald Trump (although I believe he's more in debt than I will ever be) will not listen to what I have to say. My Congressional representative will not listen to me. No one's in politics to represent their constituents anymore, I think we can all agree on that, liberal, conservative, capitalist or communist. I'm pissed off about my taxes being used to kill kids in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't want to work knowing that for every .000225 of a cent I pay in taxes, someone on either side of the conflict is injured. It's not a lot, I know, but still. I'm pissed off that to graduate with a degree that's required to get the job I want, I HAVE to put myself into debt, and I'm not even attending a great school. I'm pissed off about a lot of other shit, and so are the other thousands of people protesting. the only words to describe this problem is "economic injustice."

For those of you who want an explanation of that, Google it. Look up government scandals, on the local, state, and federal level. I'm paying for the Austin ISD board members to have lunch catered to them? Really? Taxes are necessary for that? We're protesting everything that falls under that umbrella. Are there fringe elements? Yes. On both sides, in fact. Do they devalue or somehow minimize the sincerity of the movement? Not at all. In a situation as dire as the one the world is slipping into, even crazy fucking ideas have merit if they could possibly help.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Sounds more like venting than protesting.

 

[AxeHappy]

Protesting is largely just a group of people organising a public venting...

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Then the point is completely lost on me .

 

[The Atomic Ass]

HOLY SHIT. I didn't know this happened, at all.

Just goes to show how dependent people can be on mainstream media, and how sad that dependency is.

So, add some alternative media to your information diet?

 

[The Reverend]

So, add some alternative media to your information diet?

I am, now. Or rather, actually visiting the ones I knew about. A lot of shit is too obviously skewed for me, and instead of doing the whole "the truth is in the middle" thing where I compare and contrast, I'd rather just read shit for what it is, when possible.

 

[highlordmugfug]

Video: 1 Marine vs. 30 Cops: Marine Punks NYPD Cops!

 

[Explorer]

You're missing the point. This isn't some bullshit Adbusters (sorry, Explorer) plotted to take over the world. Consider it like the Civil Rights Movement: Rosa Parks didn't give two shits about changing the segregation laws in the South, she was just tired as fuck and didn't want to give up her seat. You take what you get, any momentum whatsoever, and you fucking run, because you won't get this chance again.

The point is not to show up with a list of demands and say, "Look, Mr. 1%, this is the problem I'm having with you."

I'm not offended about your dismissing Adbusters or Soros being involved, although I'm hopeful I'm misunderstanding you on that.

Your example is a little weird, though. Taking that second point first, you have protesters protesting the Man and saying, "Look, this is the problem I'm having... but I refuse to present my thoughts in anything but very vague terms."

Taking that example of Rosa Parks... she didn't go somewhere else to talk about segregation. She refused to give up her seat on that same bus where they wanted her to move. She didn't go to some other place distinct from where the problem was happening.

So, what happened on Wall Street in the same concrete way as what happened to Rosa Parks? I know that a lot of vague claims have been made about "corruption" and such... so if someone has something specific, then present the evidence and ask why there haven't been prosecutions. Press on that. Don't just protest without getting into particulars.

The civil rights movement was about something specific: people weren't treated as equal under the law. Be just as specific about what ever the protesters want where the law is being applied unequally, and you'll see movement.

Momentum... really? Momentum sounds like movement in one direction which keeps moving in one direction. So far, it just sounds like swirling around aimlessly.

And, sadly, I'm not the only one with that perception, and even the protesters are fighting among themselves about whether or not they want to articulate anything they might want. Is it really such a surprise that nothing is really happening?

----

At some point, a head will probably emerge. And at that point, those who argue against any defined probably lose out.

It will be interesting to see where this goes in the next two weeks, if anywhere.

 

[The Reverend]

The analogy was supposed to represent a seemingly meaningless or miniscule action being the catalyst for major change. Adbusters and Soros don't mean shit to me, or to anyone I know who supports this. Does that mean my dissatisfaction with "economic injustice" is any less sincere? I think not. It's not like this character is pouring money in my pocket telling me to do shit. The Civil Rights movement is a good analogy still, because there were a lot of varying thoughts on how and what to change, if anything. I'm sure there were plenty of black people sitting back saying, "I wish this thing was more focused. There's student sit-ins with those damn hippies and confused whites, and then God-fearing folk like Rev. King out there." There were pacifists, and those with a more militant approach, and some who wanted a more ideological freedom than legal freedom.

So we have:

An action or first cause that sparks something much bigger and largely unrelated.
Varying schools of thought on what the problem was, and how to solve it.
Calls for legal reform, as well as social reform.

See the similarities?

The point is that THE ENTIRE SYSTEM is fucked. Not just one thing, and not just in terms of the laws being violated. This, for me at least, is more about changing the perception of capitalism. Consider it a wish for a cultural redefinition. I want society to think, instead of, "How can I make obscene profits, at any cost" something more along the lines of "How can I make profits, and keep my company sustainable?" We're a nation that recognizes no limits; while this pushed us from powered flight to the moon in less than a century, it also resulted in mass rates of obesity and heart disease. Diabetes, the wealthy man's disease, is now frighteningly common. Can you not see what the root cause of this is? It's over-hyping our "American ideals."

I can't understand why more people don't want to be a part of this.

 

[murakami]

The analogy was supposed to represent a seemingly meaningless or miniscule action being the catalyst for major change. Adbusters and Soros don't mean shit to me, or to anyone I know who supports this. Does that mean my dissatisfaction with "economic injustice" is any less sincere? I think not. It's not like this character is pouring money in my pocket telling me to do shit. The Civil Rights movement is a good analogy still, because there were a lot of varying thoughts on how and what to change, if anything. I'm sure there were plenty of black people sitting back saying, "I wish this thing was more focused. There's student sit-ins with those damn hippies and confused whites, and then God-fearing folk like Rev. King out there." There were pacifists, and those with a more militant approach, and some who wanted a more ideological freedom than legal freedom.

So we have:

An action or first cause that sparks something much bigger and largely unrelated.
Varying schools of thought on what the problem was, and how to solve it.
Calls for legal reform, as well as social reform.

See the similarities?

The point is that THE ENTIRE SYSTEM is fucked. Not just one thing, and not just in terms of the laws being violated. This, for me at least, is more about changing the perception of capitalism. Consider it a wish for a cultural redefinition. I want society to think, instead of, "How can I make obscene profits, at any cost" something more along the lines of "How can I make profits, and keep my company sustainable?" We're a nation that recognizes no limits; while this pushed us from powered flight to the moon in less than a century, it also resulted in mass rates of obesity and heart disease. Diabetes, the wealthy man's disease, is now frighteningly common. Can you not see what the root cause of this is? It's over-hyping our "American ideals."

I can't understand why more people don't want to be a part of this.

yeah, we're in the pooper alright.

this is how i see it. the big guys are bailed out. even when they have their hands in the cookie jar and can afford to lose millions, they still get bailed out. i am pissed, the people are pissed, everyone is pissed.

now ideally, we all want justice. we want those fucking people to not be favored, but also, get that money back that was used to bail them and use it ourselves.

this is when shit hits the fan; people see the rich taking advantage of what they can get by buying off the government, politicians etc...

not the middle class and poor want a piece of that same pie. i dont see this as a, "i want justice!" anymore. i see this as, "i want some free shit too" kind of deal(not from everyone, but it is attracting those kinds of people who feel they deserve something when they don't do shit)

and this kind of ordeal i do not want to be apart because i dont want anything. i just want things to be fair(haha, like that'll happen). a flat tax rate can help in my country i know because apparently the rich in canada are paying less percentage wise than the middle or poor class.

now i can scream bloody murder and say i want this and that, to benefit my life... but i live very comfortably. i eat out with my wife sometimes, we go out and bowl. i buy expensive gear knowing that my potential cannot tap that shit ~ however, i work my FUCKING ASS OFF. i am serious, i work really fucking hard. now i am not the smartest guy here... hell, i am probably in the middle interms of education, probably even lower, but i work hard to compensate. and i make enough to live and buy the things i like. i never over spend nor live above what my budget can handle.

sometimes i see things that i want to buy, but if i don't to dip into my savings, i think to myself, "do i really need it?" and the answer is no. the vancouver occupy whatever protest i saw on saturday, sunday, yesterday and today... they look people who have no money or are in fucking debt... BUYING THE LATEST IPOD SHIT AND MACS(i saw a lot these people going in and out of starbucks when i though they were fighting BIG BUSINESSES... and also whats with the iphones, itouch, ipads, ifuck whatever? you guys have money or don't you? how can you afford that shit if you're in debt?) they don't know what they want. my government hasn't bailed out any banks or rich people. i definitely see a reason for the nyc protest to be going on though, but not here. my people here are just trying to mooch.

with that said, the good people who are fighting a legitimate battle; i support you. they're brave and altruistic people. however, their group will always attract the people who feel they can benefit from their actions. and the majority of that group are those people now; the selfish... so its kind of funny seeing both parties have their greed sinking in.

 

[Ibanezsam4]

I can't understand why more people don't want to be a part of this.

a lot of it has to do with this:
Howard Stern Exposes Occupy Wall St. Morons. - YouTube

^as a human being who values intelligence i would rather there be an intelligent, sanitary, and non-confrontational and actually grass roots. than be associated with these people

then as a person of Jewish heritage this is bad news:


and:
http://bigjournalism.com/files/2011/10/Screen-shot-2011-10-17-at-10.35.11-AM.png

and then Occupy DC is getting media help to craft their image. "oh but you got that from Brietbart he's a racist!" say what you want about him, but here are the emails exposing it OWS ORGANIZING EMAILS

this "protest" is going to very conveniently sync up to Obama's re-election campaign. he's already come out saying he's for it.... of course he would be, this story has been completely distracted the media from his falling approval numbers, is bad jobs plan that his own party doesn't like.

there's maybe one good point being made by OWS, they dont like bailouts.. ok awesome, but
1) the Tea Party has covered that since its inception, either these morons just never followed the news or just accepted the movement as a right wing movement without looking at the actual protest points
2) yeah sure blame the banks for taking free money, go right ahead. but what about the politicians still in office who gave them that money? cuz they in-fucking-love with this movement right now because they get off easy. they're wringing their "go right on and attack the free market, we'll just be here in Washington making your lives miserable, because you are so the most useful idiots we've had to date."

the other reason this is a joke is because this movement is filled with people from my generation. my generation in america is fucking stupid. seriously... my generation has been shown to be the most conceited, narcissistic and has the biggest sense of entitlement of any other american generation. the was a news story about how we were worse than 2nd generation baby boomers. im sorry, but these kids can't cope and were told all their lives by their educators that there would be jobs waiting for them in their field after college.

they honestly should looking for jobs outside of their specialty, cuz *gasp* most employers dont actually care what kind of degree you have, because they train you to do the work within the first 90 days. also, they should try applying to jobs outside of their home state

EDIT: just found out that my last shot towards the OWS protesters about employment was not true http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362.html if you read through that you find out that most of them have jobs. begging the question WHY THE FOOKIN HELL ARENT YOU WORKING?????? then i started thinking.. perhaps they have union jobs.. and since there is heavy union backing of these protests it would make sense why they aren't punching in.. but that might make me sound like a conspiracy theorist who thinks this movement is not in any way organic........... wait i already am one.

 

[The Reverend]

Depression-inducing post.

Are you kidding me? A few rotten apples, and the whole thing is anti-semitic? Yeah, my black ass is out there pounding the streets, getting pissed about Jews "running the world."

That's like disavowing the Civil Rights movement because the Black Panthers were racist. Think on that, for a good long while.

As far as the bailouts, that's only one aspect. Nobody seems to understand what this "economic injustice" thing means. Everyone from the CEOs to the banks to our politicians are fucked up. They're essentially the same people now, anyways, right? Instead of coming from the military, our national leaders are coming from the corporate world now. I guess you can see where that lack of discipline's taken us?

And honestly, if you think you this is some ploy by Obama, you are too misinformed to really be taken seriously. I like the guy, but he's still part of the problem.

All people like you do is look for ways to cheapen this movement. Calling our generation spoiled, when we want to fix a system we didn't break? Telling us we were stupid for listening to those in control tell us what we would need, and trusting them? You're not mad because you weren't raised to "chase your dreams" only to find out that you'd need six years of school and you'll never reach them. Is it our fault, or is the culture that raised us? Have some balls, man. Yes, we're not the greatest generation, but I didn't see the young adults in the 80s (our parents) doing this.

I'm going to infer from your last sentence that you have absolutely no experience in any very specialized field, or the job market in general.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

You're not mad because you weren't raised to "chase your dreams" only to find out that you'd need six years of school and you'll never reach them.

I pretty much always knew if I wanted a "real" job I'd have to go to college. Even with being taught about the American Dream, I was always taught I'd have to work for it. Wasn't that sort of the point?

Then again, I may just be out of the loop. I've got a good decade on most of the kiddos around here, so the school system may have changed significantly since I was in corduroys.

 

[murakami]

I pretty much always knew if I wanted a "real" job I'd have to go to college. Even with being taught about the American Dream, I was always taught I'd have to work for it. Wasn't that sort of the point?

Then again, I may just be out of the loop. I've got a good decade on most of the kiddos around here, so the school system may have changed significantly since I was in corduroys.

no, you're right. it's pretty much common sense to understand that you have to go through years of schooling, and taking meaningless credits to get your papers. i am not being sarcastic by the way

anyways, we can't just say times are tougher now... that is complete bullshit. right now, we have more options. you can go to a technical school and learn to weld, become an electrician etc... what really matters to the employer is experience and you can't get your fucking papers and say, "i am over qualified for this position because the pay isn't good" basically, take what you can get for the moment and build off of that. experience is absolutely valuable and when your next interviewer sees you stuck with a company for 3 to 4 years and have built a credible portfolio and good references then you're set. you can't just whine and say theres no jobs because there is. they may not pay as great or what you expect, but it's still pay you can probably live off it if you budget yourself.

i am not downing anyone here... but seriously, it takes a lot of work and effort to get that 50 to 100grand job you want. it wasn't easy for me, but i had to work my way up and i make a descent living now.

i am in no way saying i am better than anyone, but i think we have to be a bit better with are decision making because going to school doesn't necessarily mean we'll get the job we want. even in these so called shit times, certain jobs will always be in demand and not everyone will be viable... PLUS, i'd rather have a person who wants that profession than a person who just wants that job because of the title or amount of pay they get. those people can screw off. so many people in vancouver, shit doctors, don't give a fuck about their patients and get paid tons. -_-

i want a COMPETENT WORKER not some dick with papers.

 

[synrgy]

I pretty much always knew if I wanted a "real" job I'd have to go to college. Even with being taught about the American Dream, I was always taught I'd have to work for it. Wasn't that sort of the point?

Time spent in academia and time spent in the work force aren't the same thing. I mean, at least half of the people I used to share the floor with when I was waiting tables were advanced-degree holders, and several of them are *still* waiting tables as their primary source of income now, roughly 4.5 years after I got a better job without owning a degree.

I'm getting annoyed at the bite-backs on this topic using "hard work" as some form of argument against OWS. I put in my 40+ hours a week, and I'm now earning more than double what I was 10 years ago. Despite that, I'm having a more difficult time making ends meet now than I was then, without having added any additional expenses to my budget. Just food alone kicks my wallet's ass these days.

I had a freak-out moment once a few years ago, when - as a single dude living alone, being used to a carton of eggs lasting me 1-2 full weeks - I made breakfast for my family (Dad, step-Mom, Sister, Bro-in-Law, Niece) and realized that ONE breakfast was a whole carton of eggs gone in an instant. *POOF*, just like that. That moment made me realize how expensive it is to support a family. I started thinking about the money I spend on groceries, and then imagined how much more I'd be spending when I was buying groceries for upwards of 3-5 people at a time, and that's when despair kicked in to full gear.

After some recent adventures with my "good" health insurance related to some dental work I had done, I find myself wondering how anyone can afford to live any more.

I realize this post is all over the place. I'm not really sure what my point is.

 

[Randy]

Speaking of insurance, my girlfriend has both insurance through her employer's plan (which she pays handsomely for) and through her father's plan (which he pays handsomely for). Had a small episode and had to go to the ER for two hours. They ran an IV and took some X-rays. AFTER what her insurance took care of, that visit cost her $2,600. What the actual fuck?!

The overall issue here is the increased cost of living being artificially high, as costs have skyrocketed in direct correlation with profit margins/CEO pay skyrocketing. It's hard as fuck to make a living now, it doesn't need to be and the only people who claim we're "all complaining" are the people either too young or stupid or rich to remember what it used to be like.

Anybody here old enough to remember when having a spouse work or a second income was optional? Anybody remember when getting laid off or having a catastrophe (ie. death in the family, car breaks down, roof needs to be repaired, etc.) just meant you had to tighten your belts for a little while or put in a few extra hours instead of meaning you WILL lose your house or you WILL lose your car because YOU WILL NOT be able to make your payment?

To the the post above mine... it's all over the place, yeah but that's the point. It's hard to exactly diagnose WHEN the "change" happened, but the Occupy Movement and (at the grassroots level) the Tea Party thing are a symptom of everyone simultaneously scratching their head and saying "Wait a minute... I don't remember things being this hard before" but the cause and the solution have become so convoluted, we don't quite know what we're supposed to do or who's directly to blame.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Time spent in academia and time spent in the work force aren't the same thing. I mean, at least half of the people I used to share the floor with when I was waiting tables were advanced-degree holders, and several of them are *still* waiting tables as their primary source of income now, roughly 4.5 years after I got a better job without owning a degree.

I'm getting annoyed at the bite-backs on this topic using "hard work" as some form of argument against OWS. I put in my 40+ hours a week, and I'm now earning more than double what I was 10 years ago. Despite that, I'm having a more difficult time making ends meet now than I was then, without having added any additional expenses to my budget. Just food alone kicks my wallet's ass these days.

I had a freak-out moment once a few years ago, when - as a single dude living alone, being used to a carton of eggs lasting me 1-2 full weeks - I made breakfast for my family (Dad, step-Mom, Sister, Bro-in-Law, Niece) and realized that ONE breakfast was a whole carton of eggs gone in an instant. *POOF*, just like that. That moment made me realize how expensive it is to support a family. I started thinking about the money I spend on groceries, and then imagined how much more I'd be spending when I was buying groceries for upwards of 3-5 people at a time, and that's when despair kicked in to full gear.

After some recent adventures with my "good" health insurance related to some dental work I had done, I find myself wondering how anyone can afford to live any more.

I realize this post is all over the place. I'm not really sure what my point is.

Oh, I wasn't trying to make some sort of statement about the state of the economy or anything like that. I was just commenting on Rev's seeming surprise at the notion of needing to go to college to get that dream job or whatever, since I was raised being told I'd have to. I'll add that I am upset that it's increasingly hard to make a living wage without a degree, but I just always assumed I'd have to go to college to get the job I "want" as opposed to the job I "need."

If that makes sense .