Please tell me someone on here has heard about "OCCUPY WALLSTREET"

[vampiregenocide]

What this movement lacks in direct ideals, it makes up for in the responses it provokes, both on a social, media and governmental level. The police brutality, the extremist protesters, the public and media response, it's all shown real flaws that need to be dealt with.

I for one am of the belief that we need a revolutionary, someone to speak for these people who recognise there are issues but lack the articulation to go about dealing with them. Throughout history, the greatest change has come about of the few standing for the many. A group of people are two divided and opinionated to effectively deal with an issue, which is why it takes one very special person to get things done on their behalf. I back a lot of the ideas behind these protests, things are very fucked and socially unbalanced at the moment. A lot of change needs to happen and at least showing the public cares enough to go out and get involved is a start.

 

[synrgy]

I just hope the media doesn't succeed in making it a political/left-vs-right issue, as they've clearly been attempting to do so far.

 

[Randy]

What this movement lacks in direct ideals, it makes up for in the responses it provokes, both on a social, media and governmental level. The police brutality, the extremist protesters, the public and media response, it's all shown real flaws that need to be dealt with.

I for one am of the belief that we need a revolutionary, someone to speak for these people who recognise there are issues but lack the articulation to go about dealing with them. Throughout history, the greatest change has come about of the few standing for the many. A group of people are two divided and opinionated to effectively deal with an issue, which is why it takes one very special person to get things done on their behalf. I back a lot of the ideas behind these protests, things are very fucked and socially unbalanced at the moment. A lot of change needs to happen and at least showing the public cares enough to go out and get involved is a start.

While not being steered by the exact same people, the "Get Money Out" thing has been targeting much of the same "root causes" that the Occupy folks have. The fact a few different movements that are hinting to the same things have sprung up in different places, by different people is the main reason why I believe this has potential but with that, it's most effective BECAUSE it doesn't have a singular message or entity to claim control of it.

Dylan talks about that around 5:34-> in here:



I understand the tendency for people to seek a leader but in this case, I think being "faceless" suits the movement better.

 

[vampiregenocide]

I see his point, but I don't think it's realistic to expect people to come up with a collective idea on how to solve these issues. It'd be wonderful, man I'd love that to happen so much, but people have too different opinions. As he says in that video, people are angry and understand that others feel the same, but it's turning that anger into a direct, cohesive attack on the things that are causing those feelings. This is a brilliant start don't get me wrong, but if people want to start making change they need to be more pragmatic about it. I think the faceless crowd and the single figurehead are symbiotic to one another, so I don't think the people are useless at all, I just don't think they're everything we need to see this through.

 

[Scar Symmetry]

I see his point, but I don't think it's realistic to expect people to come up with a collective idea on how to solve these issues. It'd be wonderful, man I'd love that to happen so much, but people have too different opinions. As he says in that video, people are angry and understand that others feel the same, but it's turning that anger into a direct, cohesive attack on the things that are causing those feelings. This is a brilliant start don't get me wrong, but if people want to start making change they need to be more pragmatic about it. I think the faceless crowd and the single figurehead are symbiotic to one another, so I don't think the people are useless at all, I just don't think they're everything we need to see this through.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[synrgy]

The thing is, I think we've just spent the last few years seeing exactly what happens when we choose someone as a spokesperson for 'change'.

I mean, honestly, those of us who were following Obama's 2008 campaign should remember pretty vividly that much of what OWS is complaining about is the same stuff he platformed on.

When there's a figurehead, said figurehead either gets swallowed (or corrupted, or both) by the system upon or shortly after entry.

I'll admit: During the first few days of OWS I was among those who believed the message was too vague. The word 'corporations' was being used so much, I couldn't help but be reminded of this:

(Alec Baldwin from Team America)

As the week (or weeks, now) wore on, though, I found that my perspective shifted. I know I'm just repeating a basic idea I've already posted here, but I think that, essentially, the moment the movement chooses a figurehead, scapegoat, or list of specific demands, will be the precise moment of complete deflation and a return to the status quo. That's just the nature of the beast -- in my estimation, anyway.

 

[vampiregenocide]

The thing is, I think we've just spent the last few years seeing exactly what happens when we choose someone as a spokesperson for 'change'.

I mean, honestly, those of us who were following Obama's 2008 campaign should remember pretty vividly that much of what OWS is complaining about is the same stuff he platformed on.

When there's a figurehead, said figurehead either gets swallowed (or corrupted, or both) by the system upon or shortly after entry.

I'll admit: During the first few days of OWS I was among those who believed the message was too vague. The word 'corporations' was being used so much, I couldn't help but be reminded of this:

That's why I'm not talking about a politician, but someone who isn't a member of any party and has no political affiliation. Politician's are as you say either tied down by the system or they become corrupt, which is why we need an 'outsider'. Obama was never going to solve the issues he spoke about in the timeframe people expected, it was unrealistic. Change doesn't happen overnight and people must realise that. We need someone who can put forward the ideas of the people to the places that matter. A politician without all the bullshit as it were.

 

[synrgy]

That's why I'm not talking about a politician, but someone who isn't a member of any party and has no political affiliation. Politician's are as you say either tied down by the system or they become corrupt, which is why we need an 'outsider'. Obama was never going to solve the issues he spoke about in the timeframe people expected, it was unrealistic. Change doesn't happen overnight and people must realise that. We need someone who can put forward the ideas of the people to the places that matter. A politician without all the bullshit as it were.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it doesn't matter if the figurehead is a politician or not. Any outsider will get folded in just like a politician would. When it's 'the people' as opposed to 'that guy/gal', we still have a chance at scaring those in power. When it gets boiled down to one person or organization, that person/organization can be easily subverted. It's happened countless times in our recent history already.

Also, as a slightly off topic side note, you mentioned that Obama's platforms were unrealistic, but I'd put that onus on the voting populous' misunderstanding of his platforms, not on the platforms themselves. I remember clearly Obama's speeches stating in no uncertain terms that (quoted, but paraphrased) "change won't happen overnight. It might not happen in 4 years, or even 8 years, but we can get there.. blah blah blah yes we can". It's not his fault we collectively have the patience of a 4 year old hopped up on Snickers and Kool-Aid. [Disclaimer: None of this is intended to be any defense of him or his Presidency to-date]

 

[vampiregenocide]

I guess what I'm getting at is that it doesn't matter if the figurehead is a politician or not. Any outsider will get folded in just like a politician would. When it's 'the people' as opposed to 'that guy/gal', we still have a chance at scaring those in power. When it gets boiled down to one person or organization, that person/organization can be easily subverted. It's happened countless times in our recent history already.

Also, as a slightly off topic side note, you mentioned that Obama's platforms were unrealistic, but I'd put that onus on the voting populous' misunderstanding of his platforms, not on the platforms themselves. I remember clearly Obama's speeches stating in no uncertain terms that (quoted, but paraphrased) "change won't happen overnight. It might not happen in 4 years, or even 8 years, but we can get there.. blah blah blah yes we can". It's not his fault we collectively have the patience of a 4 year old hopped up on Snickers and Kool-Aid. [Disclaimer: None of this is intended to be any defense of him or his Presidency to-date]

Yeah of course every person has a chance of being corrupted, that's why it has to be a really special person to be able to do it, not just any old fuck. Every individual throughout history who has made great change did so by refusing the option of self-profit and success and instead turning towards bettering the world in some way. That's the kind of person we need, and they are far and few between. It's an idealist thing really, but sometimes an idealist is what you need.

On your second point, I think you misread my post. I agree, Obama is not at fault on that matter, but it is the people who expected change sooner than realistically possible. I didn't say his ideas were unrealistic, but that the time people expected them to come to fruition was. America is pretty fucked, and that doesn't change in a short time. I think Obama has the makings of a great politician he's just held back by the system. If he had the power to really get what he wants done, I think America would be a better place.

 

[Miek]

I see his point, but I don't think it's realistic to expect people to come up with a collective idea on how to solve these issues. It'd be wonderful, man I'd love that to happen so much, but people have too different opinions. As he says in that video, people are angry and understand that others feel the same, but it's turning that anger into a direct, cohesive attack on the things that are causing those feelings. This is a brilliant start don't get me wrong, but if people want to start making change they need to be more pragmatic about it. I think the faceless crowd and the single figurehead are symbiotic to one another, so I don't think the people are useless at all, I just don't think they're everything we need to see this through.

But this is exactly what the general assemblies are doing.

 

[vampiregenocide]

That's what they aim to do, but so many people disagree over the demands. I just don't see the root problems being dealt with.

 

[Miek]

I have to ask, have you been to any of the GAs?

 

[vampiregenocide]

Not myself no.

 

[Miek]

Ah, I see you're in england, actually. My bad. I was going to suggest you go to one, because your voice would definitely be heard and appreciated.

 

[vampiregenocide]

Ah, I see you're in england, actually. My bad. I was going to suggest you go to one, because your voice would definitely be heard and appreciated.

Cheers for the recommendation. I have definitely been thinking about getting involved in things a bit more, but I have some figuring out to do before I do.

 

[Miek]

Yeah, I think I'm the same way.

 

[ZEBOV]

There's an Occupy Austin protest going on tomorrow at the city hall here in Austin, Texas, that I will be attending.

I'll take a guess that Alex Jones was there. He's so far off the deep end. Someday I'll go to one of his stupid fucking protests that he goes to, eat a whole box of Fiber Plus bars, and make him smell my farts until he fucking leaves. I'm not fucking kidding. I. WILL. MAKE. HIM. SMELL. MY. FARTS!

EDIT: I changed my mind. I'll spray Liquid Ass in his face.

 

[The Reverend]

I'll take a guess that Alex Jones was there. He's so far off the deep end. Someday I'll go to one of his stupid fucking protests that he goes to, eat a whole box of Fiber Plus bars, and make him smell my farts until he fucking leaves. I'm not fucking kidding. I. WILL. MAKE. HIM. SMELL. MY. FARTS!

EDIT: I changed my mind. I'll spray Liquid Ass in his face.

I just remembered that I have a spray bottle of Liquid Ass. IIRC, you're the one who made the tread about it that made me buy it!

But yeah, had you made the trip out here, you would've had the chance.

EDIT: 900th post, and it's about Liquid Ass. Holy hell.

 

[The Munk]

So the 'Occupy Wallstreet' movement is seeing some backlash now.

What Gives Bank Of America The Right To Not ‘Let’ You Close Your Account? | MoveOn.Org

 

[vampiregenocide]

What do you mean backlash? That video and a lot of the comments seem to support the movement?