xeonblade
Well-Known Member
Kay, that helped a lot. I didn't realize that attenuators suck that much tone.
Point of METAL amps over 50/60W?
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Kay, that helped a lot. I didn't realize that attenuators suck that much tone.
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Atomshipped
Well-Known Member
Yeah I don't understand why people would drop so much money on high powered amps when there are so many cheaper options that are still more than loud enough. Why spend $2,000 on a Rectifier when you can spend half that on a Mini Rectifier and still have more power than you'll ever need?
Because they sound different?
You're not paying for volume, that's just silly, you're paying for the sound. It just so happens that sound is only available with a larger, higher current power amp.
Atomshipped
Well-Known Member
Ahh, didn't know the power amp had that much of a say in how the amp sounded. Even though they use the same pre amp, does the power amp make that much of a difference that you'd pay $1,000 extra?
Having owned a Single Rec and played various Duals, I can tell you that even if the preamp was 100% identical, it wouldn't sound like a Dual Rec.
I've messed around with a lot of Mesa stuff and the power amp is so key to how each Recto variant sounds, if you line out a Single, Dual, and Triple (thus bypassing power section) they'll sound relatively similar with similar settings and voicing, but once you engage their individual power sections and play them in the room they really start showing what makes them unique.
The Mini Rec is a much smaller (less component/material cost), less feature filled (easier to build) amp, hence the smaller price tag. From what I can tell they're great amps, but don't sound identical to their bigger siblings. Not that it's a bad thing.
Shask
Well-Known Member
It sounds like MaxofMetal is doing a good job of saying it. It is about headroom, depth and tone. Volume means nothing. 1W. is still loud, and a 100W. is not that much louder.
I am a big fan of big amps. I use a Triple Recto and a VHT Deliverance D120 at home with the volume on like 1. Why? because tiny amps sound tiny. If you want that huge depth and punch in the low end, you need bigger power. Plain and simple. As the wattage goes down, so does the depth of the tone.
I am a big fan of big amps. I use a Triple Recto and a VHT Deliverance D120 at home with the volume on like 1. Why? because tiny amps sound tiny. If you want that huge depth and punch in the low end, you need bigger power. Plain and simple. As the wattage goes down, so does the depth of the tone.
Dead Undead
New again
Inferiority issues. I have to have the biggest amp.
I'm no amp expert at all, but I think it's about headroom. I've heard that especially for down tuning you want a higher watt amp to push the bass frequencies or something like that. Even on my Tiny Terror the tonal difference between 7 and 15 watts is apparent.
“When I play live I always use a 100-Watt head and a 50-Watt head at the same time,” “50-Watts has a creamy, fluid and warm sound while 100-Watts is very hard and aggressive. So, for me, the ultimate sound is one 100W with a 50W hooked up together. The result is simply massive.”
Yngwie Malmsteen
Yngwie Malmsteen
VESmedic
Well-Known Member
Simple answer: Preamp based distortion amps + Power amp Distortion usually = Mudfest 2012...Simple as that. It has already been explained here, just thought I'd add my 2 cents 
. Tightness, clarity/focus etc are the biggest reasons. Plus, the Sound and more importantly the feel of the 25 recto vs the 150 watt recto for instance is probably quite dramatic. The feel of a 150 watt head pumping behind you, is extremely hard (read: I'd say almost impossible) to mimic. It's about the power and "oomph" that it pushes out, not necessarily volume
. Tightness, clarity/focus etc are the biggest reasons. Plus, the Sound and more importantly the feel of the 25 recto vs the 150 watt recto for instance is probably quite dramatic. The feel of a 150 watt head pumping behind you, is extremely hard (read: I'd say almost impossible) to mimic. It's about the power and "oomph" that it pushes out, not necessarily volume Brian D
Well-Known Member
Higher watt amps sound bigger, thicker, darker, and tighter then lower watt amps -- and not just when you turn them up.
There is a response character and generally feel of a 100 watt amp that is non-existent in 50 watt amplifiers. My friend has a Bogner Uberschall Twin Jet, and it's not 180 watts because it gets 3 dB louder then 150 watts -- it's 180 watts because Reinhold Bogner decided the circuit sounded better that way.
When it comes to volume, a 100 watt amp to a 50 watt amp...sometimes even to a 30 watt amp, is barely any difference at all -- maybe 6 or 7 dB. It's about the character of the amp.
There is a response character and generally feel of a 100 watt amp that is non-existent in 50 watt amplifiers. My friend has a Bogner Uberschall Twin Jet, and it's not 180 watts because it gets 3 dB louder then 150 watts -- it's 180 watts because Reinhold Bogner decided the circuit sounded better that way.
When it comes to volume, a 100 watt amp to a 50 watt amp...sometimes even to a 30 watt amp, is barely any difference at all -- maybe 6 or 7 dB. It's about the character of the amp.
KAMI
Mom's Spaghetti
I'm agreeing with higher wattage making the sound tighter.
I've played an engl savage 120 and it is as tight and aggressive as hell! I didn't need a boost and preferred it without a boost
whereas my savage 60 is a different beast. It has the same tonal characteristics as the 120 but is not as tight. It is still plenty tight and doesn't need a boost, but I prefer it with a boost.
I've played an engl savage 120 and it is as tight and aggressive as hell! I didn't need a boost and preferred it without a boost
whereas my savage 60 is a different beast. It has the same tonal characteristics as the 120 but is not as tight. It is still plenty tight and doesn't need a boost, but I prefer it with a boost.
that's right, BUT there have to be said, that OT for 100W is not the right thing for 50W operation. the resistance of one pair of tubes is lower than resistance of four tubes, it can be compensated by pluging f.e. 8Ohm cab into 4Ohm output of the head, but it still isn't ideal situation. so that's the reason why 100W head sounds thinner when it's switched to 50W operation. AND that doesn't mean that there cannot be 50W amp which sounds as big and full as 100W amp, it's all about its construction and size of the OT. (really simple explanation)Headroom. My amp just sounds bigger set to 100W, so I leave it there.
Blind Theory
Well-Known Member
I can't speak for a lot of what is said but I can say some people might get the big boys because there aren't any smaller versions on the market. I know the ENGL Fireball has a 60w version (discontinued?) but the Powerball 2 doesn't. A lot of the boutique stuff like Fortin or DAR don't either. I don't think Bogner has any either. And if they do they tend to be drastically smaller and not like 100w or 75w type differences.
Vinchester
Well-Known Member
My 5W Blackstar HT5 stack makes me feel inadequate No use having great guitars if the amp doesn't have the power to drive and project the sound.
...Seeing that the world will end this year I'll probably buy an ENGL Blackmore, for use in my bedroom
no seriously I'll hook it up with a cab simulator for recording.
btw I tried a Blackstar Series One 50w and 100w once and the difference in depth and HEADROOM is very noticeable.
No use having great guitars if the amp doesn't have the power to drive and project the sound....Seeing that the world will end this year I'll probably buy an ENGL Blackmore, for use in my bedroom
no seriously I'll hook it up with a cab simulator for recording. btw I tried a Blackstar Series One 50w and 100w once and the difference in depth and HEADROOM is very noticeable.
I agree.
xeonblade
Well-Known Member
Wasn't 100W to 50W changing from pentode to triode? The way you said would mean that 2 power tubes would be turned off.
