Portnoy is back in Dream Theater

[Furtive Glance]

My dream substitute would be Tommy Karevik but that ain’t happening.

 

[Marked Man]

Sorry, which part is not true?

Also, I should clarify that I should have said "If he can nail the vocals **in the studio** for the album"

They would of course be VERY bothered if a new singer couldn't nail the vocals in concert. Why bother having concerts or tours if that were the case?

 

[Stiman]

They would of course be VERY bothered if a new singer couldn't nail the vocals in concert. Why bother having concerts or tours if that were the case?

I was only talking about James in my comment. I was basically saying that I'm cool with James as long as the studio albums have great vocals.

 

[sezna]

That was my first thought too. Is MP really going to sit back there listening to that?

Especially after playing with Winery Dogs with Kotzen's strong vocals. Gotta be hard to play without that strong frontman voice.

 

[MFB]

That's not true for Dream Theater. I can't name a band that has toured more than them over the last few decades and don't blame Portnoy at all for becoming tired of it.

Mayhaps you've heard of The Black Dahlia Murder? Feels like those dude's are barely at home, they're always out with someone, since they put out albums like every other year.

 

[OneTwoThrill]

For sure you saw that but can't resist sharing it here to be sure :


I love to hear that wooden sound again. The organic sound of the snare and the wide variety of cymbals. None of them sounds the same.

 

[Marked Man]

For sure you saw that but can't resist sharing it here to be sure :


I love to hear that wooden sound again. The organic sound of the snare and the wide variety of cymbals. None of them sounds the same.

Welcome Back, Mike!

I have both of his Pro Mark sig drum sticks. The original 420Xs are my faves for busy stuff, and of course any DT I play. Most people don't realize how many things he adds to each song without seeing it....

 

[KentBrockman]

They supposedly buried the hatchet but time will tell. I could see LaBrie quitting since he's been making comments about not being able to do some of the material and if things get heated with MP again.

I really hope Labrie doesn't quit. Sure, he has a lot of faults but I really cannot imagine DT with a singer other than Labrie. Not sure who is listening to DT for the vocals anyway.

 

[G_3_3_k_]

Honestly I thought Mangini was a breath of fresh air in the band. I fell off after 6°. Just seemed like they were looking for what was popular at the time and doing their version of it. Then the heavier albums like train of thought and the next one, I was just bored by it. Riffs seemed generic. Drumming was uninspired. There were a few really good moments on BC & SL. Then that self titled album came out and it felt like they were being authentic again. Which is how I’ve felt about most of the stuff they’ve done with Mangini. Always felt like Portnoy was the one pushing them to be heavier, and it never seemed authentic to me.

 

[Marked Man]

Honestly I thought Mangini was a breath of fresh air in the band. I fell off after 6°. Just seemed like they were looking for what was popular at the time and doing their version of it. Then the heavier albums like train of thought and the next one, I was just bored by it. Riffs seemed generic. Drumming was uninspired. There were a few really good moments on BC & SL. Then that self titled album came out and it felt like they were being authentic again. Which is how I’ve felt about most of the stuff they’ve done with Mangini. Always felt like Portnoy was the one pushing them to be heavier, and it never seemed authentic to me.

I think Black Clouds was better than anything from the Magani era, and DT also hit their nadir with Little Mike (Astonishing....only DT album I never bought).

Change is sometimes necessary to break a cycle of burnout, but I'm glad Portnoy and his rock spirit and songwriting are back. Portniy would have vetoed much if the Astonishing crap...

Petrucci apparently has a cyborg heart or something. I don't see him stopping DT after Labrie is finally out to pasture. He'll find a younger gun to take his place.

 

[OneTwoThrill]

I had a crush with DT at the first listening to , When Dream & Day Unite, Images & Words, Awake, A Change of seasons and Falling into Infinity (discovered them in 97).

It took me more careful listenings to appreciate Train of Thoughts and the followings. Today I cannot stop listening all their work, including The Astonishing. Playing the ending solo of A new beginning is a real pleasure. I do love the rhythmic parts too.

I fully agree with you about Petrucci and his relationships with the band. Sherinian was a killer and was fired with no remorse. The same with Portnoy who was just asking a pause. Petrucci is carry-on launching a hundred variation of the Steve's Special/AirNorton PUs, another JP model with another wood and a 18,3db boost that changes everything for only 9K$, another pick, another amp, a whisky, a beard lotion...
Business is good for him but mates can be replaced. It's not my values but fuck, I can't stop listening DTE and LTE!

 

[Marked Man]

I had a crush with DT at the first listening to , When Dream & Day Unite, Images & Words, Awake, A Change of seasons and Falling into Infinity (discovered them in 97).

It took me more careful listenings to appreciate Train of Thoughts and the followings. Today I cannot stop listening all their work, including The Astonishing. Playing the ending solo of A new beginning is a real pleasure. I do love the rhythmic parts too.

I fully agree with you about Petrucci and his relationships with the band. Sherinian was a killer and was fired with no remorse. The same with Portnoy who was just asking a pause. Petrucci is carry-on launching a hundred variation of the Steve's Special/AirNorton PUs, another JP model with another wood and a 18,3db boost that changes everything for only 9K$, another pick, another amp, a whisky, a beard lotion...
Business is good for him but mates can be replaced. It's not my values but fuck, I can't stop listening DTE and LTE!

Petrucci needs to put out a JPX Beard Brush.

Available exclusively at Sweetwater @ full MSRP only (48 MO financing available).

 

[G_3_3_k_]

I think Black Clouds was better than anything from the Magani era, and DT also hit their nadir with Little Mike (Astonishing....only DT album I never bought).

Change is sometimes necessary to break a cycle of burnout, but I'm glad Portnoy and his rock spirit and songwriting are back. Portniy would have vetoed much if the Astonishing crap...

Petrucci apparently has a cyborg heart or something. I don't see him stopping DT after Labrie is finally out to pasture. He'll find a younger gun to take his place.

I liked The Astonishing. But I also like their early albums a lot. Big prog rock/metal opuses are not an issue for me. I like that stuff. I found Train of Thought, Octavarium, and Systemaic Chaos to be incredibly stale. The last good Portnoy album in my opinion was Metropolis. BC&SL I think I listened to 3 maybe 4 times total. The first four DT albums hundreds of times. Especially Falling into Infinity.

 

[Marked Man]

I liked The Astonishing. But I also like their early albums a lot. Big prog rock/metal opuses are not an issue for me. I like that stuff. I found Train of Thought, Octavarium, and Systemaic Chaos to be incredibly stale. The last good Portnoy album in my opinion was Metropolis. BC&SL I think I listened to 3 maybe 4 times total. The first four DT albums hundreds of times. Especially Falling into Infinity.

Falling was when I thought they were finished. Lost their edge. Fortunately only a phase. But since Rudess joined, they settled into a groove for the most part based on his sound and have been samey forever.

The solution? Bring back Kevin Moore. I know it will never happen, but their most of their best was from the Moore era...

 

[OneTwoThrill]

Asking some replacements is like managing a sport team. That way, Metallica would deserve a real drummer and a guy who can play riffs and solos.

DT, so far, is Petrucci, Labrie, Portnoy, Ruddess and Myung.

 

[RevelGTR]

Like him or not the fact that they’ve kept Labrie is a huge part of why they’re still such an institution in the prog metal landscape, and not playing casinos like Queensyche. Hanging on to classic and important members is more important for a bands image and vitality than a lot of people seem to realize.

 

[G_3_3_k_]

Like him or not the fact that they’ve kept Labrie is a huge part of why they’re still such an institution in the prog metal landscape, and not playing casinos like Queensyche. Hanging on to classic and important members is more important for a bands image and vitality than a lot of people seem to realize.

This.

While Portnoy may have been a big part of their writing process in the past and a mouthpiece for the band in music publications. He’s replaceable. If he weren’t, none of the Mangini albums would have held any water. If you replace Petrucci or LeBrie, you no longer have Dream Theater. They’re everything that makes the band recognizable to the layperson listener. I may be able to hear a difference between Portnoy and Mangini, a non musician fan isn’t going to be able to tell, and likely won’t care. Lead guitar and vocals are sadly the only positions in a band that non-musicians really care about. But it’s where all the melody comes from, which is where they attach themselves to a piece of music. DT has a heavy musician base to their fans. So it would likely still hurt them a lot to dump a classic member if they didn’t replace them with a capable player already well regarded by their fan base.

 

[Sermo Lupi]

This.

While Portnoy may have been a big part of their writing process in the past and a mouthpiece for the band in music publications. He’s replaceable. If he weren’t, none of the Mangini albums would have held any water.

To many, they didn't though. That's the issue. And with how extensive Portnoy's contributions were, removing him changed more than just the drumming.

If you replace Petrucci or LeBrie, you no longer have Dream Theater. They’re everything that makes the band recognizable to the layperson listener. I may be able to hear a difference between Portnoy and Mangini, a non musician fan isn’t going to be able to tell, and likely won’t care. Lead guitar and vocals are sadly the only positions in a band that non-musicians really care about.

Lots of bands have replaced lead singers or guitarists and kept their style or even improved it. Just depends on who the replacement is and how closely the band wants to stick with their old sound.

But it’s where all the melody comes from, which is where they attach themselves to a piece of music. DT has a heavy musician base to their fans. So it would likely still hurt them a lot to dump a classic member if they didn’t replace them with a capable player already well regarded by their fan base.

Portnoy's albums with NMB were arguably closer in spirit to classic DT than anything Dream Theater put out in the last decade if we're going by melody writing and musicianship, as you mentioned.

Dont' get me wrong, I feel DT is more than the sum of its parts and Petrucci is near and dear to me above most members if forced to choose. But put Eric Gilette or Marco Sfogli in his shoes (as Portnoy and Labrie have done already) and it turns out you get pretty close...

 

[G_3_3_k_]

To many, they didn't though. That's the issue. And with how extensive Portnoy's contributions were, removing him changed more than just the drumming.



Lots of bands have replaced lead singers or guitarists and kept their style or even improved it. Just depends on who the replacement is and how closely the band wants to stick with their old sound.



Portnoy's albums with NMB were arguably closer in spirit to classic DT than anything Dream Theater put out in the last decade if we're going by melody writing and musicianship, as you mentioned.

Dont' get me wrong, I feel DT is more than the sum of its parts and Petrucci is near and dear to me above most members if forced to choose. But put Eric Gilette or Marco Sfogli in his shoes (as Portnoy and Labrie have done already) and it turns out you get pretty close...

I’m not saying from my perspective. I could give two shits. I find everything all of them do to be mostly boring. I don’t even listen to the first records much anymore. Vai puts me to sleep now. It’s not that it’s bad or not interesting to me, it’s just that I don’t care about all the flash and technical whatever any more. Dream Theater’s never brought a tear to my eye. Neither has Vai. Other bands have. And with far fewer notes. I don’t fall all over myself about John’s tone either. And I’ve been in a small auditorium with him and an amp. Sounded great. But didn’t wow me.

 

[G_3_3_k_]

I’m not saying from my perspective. I could give two shits. I find everything all of them do to be mostly boring. I don’t even listen to the first records much anymore. Vai puts me to sleep now. It’s not that it’s bad or not interesting to me, it’s just that I don’t care about all the flash and technical whatever any more. Dream Theater’s never brought a tear to my eye. Neither has Vai. Other bands have. And with far fewer notes. I don’t fall all over myself about John’s tone either. And I’ve been in a small auditorium with him and an amp. Sounded great. But didn’t wow me.

I wrote this when half asleep and in a lot of pain from a car wreck a couple days ago. I don’t disagree with it, but I realize it doesn’t really address the points.

On whether or not they replaced Portnoy or not, I don’t agree. They did replace him. Whether or not the resulting material was good or not is entirely subjective. To say otherwise is rationally dishonest. If they hadn’t replaced him there wouldn’t have been more albums until they brought him back in. He was replaced. Whether or not all of the roles he took on were replaced by Mangini or shouldered by another band mate doesn’t matter. They filled those roles and got the job done.

As to bands replacing certain members and changing image, etc…. My point is no from the perspective of the band. It’s from the perspective of the audience. Some bands will lose their identity if one or two members are no longer present. Imagine Metallica without James. Or Megadeth without Dave. Take Matt Bellamy out of Muse. Chris Cornell out of Soundgarden. Yes, you could counter with AiC. Fair. But Layne died. It was the only means to move on. And they are very different projects from each other. This is how you get eras of bands that are seen as whole other bands. It’s what Dio era Sabbath isn’t considered the same band as Ozzy era Sabbath. Both are good. But the bands identify had to change, and fans regard them differently as a result.

I can’t stand projects like Spock’s Beard and NMB. They are everything I don’t like about Prog.