Presidential debate 1

[celticelk]

Obama spends 50yrs worth of "corperate welfare $" in his first term on these failed green energy shams, and the liberals still support him lol.
These shams were a complete belly-up bust and a total waste of tax payer cash.
I'd much rather him have spent the cash on protecting the embassies, so I'm all for the military spending increase.
I'd personally save some cash by cutting food stamps down to whatever it takes to buy beans, rice, milk, and tuna for the month.
Go to any public housing unit and look how many seriously over-weight and morbidly obese people there are (but they sure are a hurtin for the food stamps though lol.


That alone is plenty enough for me to give the new guy, who sounds much more "real energy" friendly, the job.

Romney's talking point about "green energy" spending was an old and thoroughly-refuted line of bullshit: a good chunk of that spending went to "clean coal", nuclear waste abatement, energy infrastructure, and other projects that were definitely not solar-and-wind. Three out of three dozen firms which participated in the federal loan guarantee program have filed for bankruptcy, and Tesla Motors is paying back its loans while it's in Chapter 11. That's less than 10%, not the "half" that Romney claimed. He also overlooked the fact that Congress built an financial cushion into the program *on the expectation* that some of these startups would fail, and the total loss to taxpayers has been *less* than that cushion. Google "Romney 90 billion green energy fact check" and you'll get more details than your brain can absorb.

 

[Watty]

Obama spends 50yrs worth of "corperate welfare $" in his first term on these failed green energy shams, and the liberals still support him lol.
These shams were a complete belly-up bust and a total waste of tax payer cash.
I'd much rather him have spent the cash on protecting the embassies, so I'm all for the military spending increase.
I'd personally save some cash by cutting food stamps down to whatever it takes to buy beans, rice, milk, and tuna for the month.
Go to any public housing unit and look how many seriously over-weight and morbidly obese people there are (but they sure are a hurtin for the food stamps though lol.

Trying (albeit failing) is typically better than not having tried at all. I'd rather reach the end of our fossil fuel supply knowing what will be a good investment and a bad investment which can only be determined by having exercised some real world research. You make it sound like it was self evident that the businesses in which the money was invested would fail, which is simply not the case...Did Obama influence a choice that was less than fruitful? Yes. Would another have made the same choice? Possibly. Will blaming him for actions taken in good faith to secure our energy independence do any good moving us forward? No.

For your second point, did you mean "spend" or "spent?" Each completely changes the tone of what follows...if you meant to say "spent," you insinuate your belief in the fact that Obama knew people would die and therefore should have prevented it. This is almost akin to saying that we should give over complete autonomy in order for the government to control (militarily-speaking) every aspect of our lives to prevent a terrorist attack from taking place. You can never predict what a group of people will do when prompted in such a way that inspires their willingness to die for what they believe. Thinking anything to the contrary is naive to say the least.

If you meant "spend," I would refer you to study what could actually be done to "protect" said embassies. How do you protect a building from an armed mob (of several thousand) dead set on killing those inside? Would you hire a small army to be present at each embassy, 24/7/365? I could cite numerous speakers who have said that anything is possible with "God on your side," which is exactly what these people believe. They wanted a way in and they would have found one regardless of how secure the facility was in the middle of "hostile" territory.

I'm with you on the food stamps thing, but some people genuinely need it to survive. I think it's the same type of deal as was assumed with the drug testing for welfare. A few people ruin it for everybody else, and, when push came to shove, it was determined that the drug problem was virtually non-existent. So, does the welfare program need reform? Sure. Also, you cite morbidly obese people as being an indication of how the system is broken; you again forget to investigate why that might be the case. Have you been into a grocery store lately and looked at what certain things cost? Want to eat healthy? It'll cost you.....BIG time. You'd pay more for a few apples than you would for an entire box of donuts; when confronted with keeping your family healthy or keeping your family fed, you'd tend to think the latter would be the better option. After all, better alive and unhealthy than...well, dead.

That alone is plenty enough for me to give the new guy, who sounds much more "real energy" friendly, the job.

What is "real" energy? What is "unreal" energy? I'm guessing you see anything that's a fossil fuel as being a source of real energy, which is great for the short term...but is ultimately unsustainable. Our country is like a tanker ship, it takes a long time to turn. Obama is trying to start that turn so that when the fossil fuels run out, we're not facing the iceberg and saying "oh shit....hard to starboard!" I'm proud to work for an energy company that values renewables and invests in them to promote independence for the future. We see coal as a supplemental source, used only to ensure that lower rates can be maintained until such a time as the government sees fit to finally move "all in" when it comes to "real" energy, which, by my estimation is energy that will last indefinitely.

 

[tacotiklah]

Obama spends 50yrs worth of "corperate welfare $" in his first term on these failed green energy shams, and the liberals still support him lol.
These shams were a complete belly-up bust and a total waste of tax payer cash.
I'd much rather him have spent the cash on protecting the embassies, so I'm all for the military spending increase.
I'd personally save some cash by cutting food stamps down to whatever it takes to buy beans, rice, milk, and tuna for the month.
Go to any public housing unit and look how many seriously over-weight and morbidly obese people there are (but they sure are a hurtin for the food stamps though lol.


That alone is plenty enough for me to give the new guy, who sounds much more "real energy" friendly, the job.

If you were waiting for a philanthropist of the year award, keep waiting.

Usually the right touts how it's the defender of christian values, but the emboldened part here shows that fallacy in all its hypocrisy. Remember how Christ asked people to do for others? That didn't mean the bare fucking minimum.

I got it, when these corporate bastards finally set their sights on cutting your job, you are only deserving of "beans, rice, milk, and tuna for the month" for your whole family k?
You don't get to have nutritionally viable food, but rather less calories than a prison inmate because it's all your fault for siding for the very people that put you in this position to begin with. Okie dokie?

 

[TRENCHLORD]

If you were waiting for a philanthropist of the year award, keep waiting.

Usually the right touts how it's the defender of christian values, but the emboldened part here shows that fallacy in all its hypocrisy. Remember how Christ asked people to do for others? That didn't mean the bare fucking minimum.

I got it, when these corporate bastards finally set their sights on cutting your job, you are only deserving of "beans, rice, milk, and tuna for the month" for your whole family k?
You don't get to have nutritionally viable food, but rather less calories than a prison inmate because it's all your fault for siding for the very people that put you in this position to begin with. Okie dokie?

Fair enough points, but I'm not speaking for the right, and definetly not speaking for christians lol. (neither one would want me lol, no wonder right?)
And fuck the prisoners, I'd cut them down to about 500cals/day and see if they ever come back .

 

[Varcolac]

Yeah, the reason people keep returning to prison is the top-class catering...

 

[celticelk]

Fair enough points, but I'm not speaking for the right, and definetly not speaking for christians lol. (neither one would want me lol, no wonder right?)
And fuck the prisoners, I'd cut them down to about 500cals/day and see if they ever come back .

And that tells me pretty much everything I need to know about you, Trench.

 

[Jakke]

Poor moderator got completely run over...

Romney has a very douchy way of being a dick without coming off as one as one.

 

[vampiregenocide]

That alone is plenty enough for me to give the new guy, who sounds much more "real energy" friendly, the job.

Stick with this 'real energy and see how much longer it lasts. Green energy is the future and without risks progress is never made.

 

[Treeunit212]

Obama spends 50yrs worth of "corperate welfare $" in his first term on these failed green energy shams, and the liberals still support him lol.
These shams were a complete belly-up bust and a total waste of tax payer cash.
I'd much rather him have spent the cash on protecting the embassies, so I'm all for the military spending increase.
I'd personally save some cash by cutting food stamps down to whatever it takes to buy beans, rice, milk, and tuna for the month.
Go to any public housing unit and look how many seriously over-weight and morbidly obese people there are (but they sure are a hurtin for the food stamps though lol.


That alone is plenty enough for me to give the new guy, who sounds much more "real energy" friendly, the job.

You mean the three out of three dozen green energy startups that failed, while the rest doubled green energy jobs?

You're STILL vomiting falsehoods about the *CONSULATE that the president has no authority over?

There's a New Mexico Mayor that tried to live on just food stamps for a week. Know what he said? "I'm light headed and I can't do this anymore." The idea that anyone is choosing welfare or food stamps instead of working for their needs is the epitome of right wing bullshit, but you just keep eating it up...

What constitutes "real energy"? Is coal more real because mining it shortens your life span by thirty years and leads to more green house emissions than any other fuel source? Do you realize that Greenland virtually melted last summer? There are methane deposits frozen in ice that, if released, would likely shift the global climate into another ice age.

This is the kind of self fulfilling prophecy of religious extremists that think the end of the world is imminent, but refuse to see that WE'RE the ones bringing it.

 

[Jakke]

Stick with this 'real energy and see how much longer it lasts. Green energy is the future and without risks progress is never made.

In my opinion nuclear is the future, "green energy" (bio mass, wind, solar, and water) is far to dependent on the environment around it.
I can just take my own country for example, we live with a big part of the country above the polar circle, in the winter the sun rises at about 8.30 and sets at 3.30 (pm), in the winter there are not really any winds to speak of, and most of our rivers are built to capacity (that is, without harming any wildlife). Not to mention that wind power is so inneffiecient that we have to build loads of towers, which will fuck up nature, and nature generates a lot of income for us.

So when are we in most need of power? Well... In the winter.


Nuclear power is safe, and it evolves all the time, the current plans for gen 4 power plants will almost completely eliminate the problem of waste, and make the fuel last many times longer. Unfortunately nuclear power has suffered a character assassination, which makes many people frown at it, but currently it's the best alternative for power we have. Is it perfect? No, but what power source is?

We need to stop burning dinosaurs though

 

[vampiregenocide]

Yeah you're right, it's better than burning fossil fuels, and a lot of other common green energy sources are fine on a small scale, but not a large scale.

 

[Adam Of Angels]

I don't mean to pick on anybody, so Trench: don't take this that way... but, when somebody corrects you when you're wrong, it's respectful to acknowledge it.

 

[Treeunit212]

In my opinion nuclear is the future, "green energy" (bio mass, wind, solar, and water) is far to dependent on the environment around it.
I can just take my own country for example, we live with a big part of the country above the polar circle, in the winter the sun rises at about 8.30 and sets at 3.30 (pm), in the winter there are not really any winds to speak of, and most of our rivers are built to capacity (that is, without harming any wildlife). Not to mention that wind power is so inneffiecient that we have to build loads of towers, which will fuck up nature, and nature generates a lot of income for us.

So when are we in most need of power? Well... In the winter.


Nuclear power is safe, and it evolves all the time, the current plans for gen 4 power plants will almost completely eliminate the problem of waste, and make the fuel last many times longer. Unfortunately nuclear power has suffered a character assassination, which makes many people frown at it, but currently it's the best alternative for power we have. Is it perfect? No, but what power source is?

We need to stop burning dinosaurs though

Which country do you live in?

I had a Biology professor that was a Nuclear Engineer in the Navy for the largest aircraft carrier in the fleet, the USS Ronald Reagan. He had high hopes for nuclear, but admitted there would be alternatives for any situation. Smart guy.

There's countries like Brazil that function almost entirely on hydro power, but the environmental trade off is on par with fossil fuels. Can't really blame them, being developing and all.

As far as the US, I'd like to see more of everything. You can't outsource a green job.

 

[Jakke]

^Sweden, we suffer from our even weather and our long and dark winters.

 

[vampiregenocide]

There's countries like Brazil that function almost entirely on hydro power, but the environmental trade off is on par with fossil fuels. Can't really blame them, being developing and all.

They're currently building a dam that will destroy a huge area of rainforest and displace thousands of tribes people who until recently weren't even aware of the outside world. It's even worse than fossil fuels in my opinion.

 

[Lives Once Abstract]

Ive never been to keen on Obama. But I fucking hate romney. I would consider myself Republican, and i think Romney is just stupid. he more or less speaks without realizing what it means. Or doesnt really take any time to "open his mind before his mouth" (motionless in white ref.)

I was raised in a republican home, and generally tend to fall more conservative on my views. I used to think I was a true conservative until my senior year in highschool taking US Gov. took a test found out Im actually very moderate.

DONT VOTE ON PARTY ALONE.

 

[Jakke]

They're currently building a dam that will destroy a huge area of rainforest and displace thousands of tribes people who until recently weren't even aware of the outside world. It's even worse than fossil fuels in my opinion.

Indeed, we have as much hydro power as we can have without screwing with people and animals around the dams.

 

[Randy]

Ive never been to keen on Obama. But I fucking hate romney. I would consider myself Republican, and i think Romney is just stupid. he more or less speaks without realizing what it means. Or doesnt really take any time to "open his mind before his mouth" (motionless in white ref.)

I was raised in a republican home, and generally tend to fall more conservative on my views. I used to think I was a true conservative until my senior year in highschool taking US Gov. took a test found out Im actually very moderate.

DONT VOTE ON PARTY ALONE.

+rep for you, sir

I'm in much the same boat. I'm a registered Democrat, campaigned for Obama in 2008 but I'm not married to the party and I've been disappointed in Obama. The only reason I will (or might...?)be voting for Obama is a vote against Romney, because I genuinely don't like where the current crop of Republicans (at the federal level) want to take things and I don't trust how.... malleable Romney is from day-to-day, week-to-week.

Yes, this election I'm voting with the party but I'll be holding my nose in doing it. As a background, I vote and have even campaigned for Republicans and left-leaning candidates in local elections. It all depends on the person, depends on the seat. I'd also put out there that corruption and/or interests that run counter to 'the people' knows no party boundaries.

 

[Lives Once Abstract]

Honestly I could go on and on about why we should do away with political parties.

And I really hate to say this but; from what I have learned about Mormons (which Romney happens to be) I would never vote for him for that reason alone. Normally I don't let anyone's religion determine ANYTHING. In this case, however, Mormons literally take bits and pieces from different scriptures in the Christian bible and put them together to say whatever they want to say, and still use the bible as a credible source for their teachings.

It would be like me doing this

I will be voting for Romney, because I genuinely like where the current crop of Republicans (at the federal level) want to take things and I don't vote for Republicans and left-leaning candidates in local elections.

I used fragments of your sentences with nothing but copying and pasting to say what I wanted you to say. When in reality you said:

...The only reason I will (or might...?)be voting for Obama is a vote against Romney, because I genuinely don't like where the current crop of Republicans (at the federal level) want to take things and I don't trust how malleable Romney is from day-to-day, week-to-week.

...I vote and have even campaigned for Republicans and left-leaning candidates in local elections. It all depends on the person, depends on the seat. I'd also put out there that corruption and/or interests that run counter to 'the people' knows no party boundaries.

Taking things out of context is LYING. There's nothing else to say about it. And if this man, Mitt Romney wasn't in the race to RUN our country, I would say nothing about his religious preference. I'm not trying in any way to dig at his spiritual life. But, I have witnessed Mormons do this. And I'm not in anyway okay with the possibility of the president of our country being Romney. I'm very sorry if this upsets anyone, I really am. But, when it comes to government and people running our country, every aspect MUST be looked at.

I'm sorry...

 

[BucketheadRules]

Apparently it was measured that in this debate, Romney gave, in all the time he spoke (less than 40 minutes), something like twenty-five statements which were all proven to be inaccurate - but which he asserted as fact. I think that says quite a lot. Either this man doesn't know shit about what he's saying, or he's a bare-faced liar. Whichever of those is the case, it's not a ringing endorsement.


Certainly not the kind of guy I want to see at the helm of one of the most powerful countries in the world.