Problem with setting up my 8 string, 25,5" scale length (LTD H-308)

[kirlz]

Hi everyone!

I just bought a used LTD H-308 at a good price as my first 8 string guitar. I'm having trouble with floppy strings and setting this guitar up. I'm worried that I've made a mistake by buying an 8 string with a short scale length.

But I read a lot of reviews and comments about the guitar before I bought it and almost everybody seems to be very satisfied with this guitar although it's a short scale (25,5"). I noticed that the to lowest strings were a bit floppy (.74 tuned to F# and .62 tuned to B) when I tried the guitar, but the strings were very old and the seller assured me that changing the strings and adjusting the truss rod would fix that.

I wouldn't have taken his word for it if it wasn't for this video:
He's talking about tuning and recommends using .62 and .74 for the lower strings and it doesn't look or sound too floppy. He even plays in drop E in the video! And in other videos with people playing this or any other guitar with the same scale length it also sounds fine.

Anyway! I bought a set of 10-74 strings and immediately ran into problems with the 74. It didn't fit the tuning peg! I remembered that I've read somwhere that it's possible to unwind some of the string to make it fit, but also that I've read that some people get issues with the strings buzzing after that. I figured I had to try but now the string sounds muddier than the old string I had, it's still very floppy and doesn't keep the tuning very well. And in the video above, the string doesn't look to be unwound?!

I've ordered a set of strings with a .80 in the bottom, but if unwinding the string makes it sound muddy, it's not a very good solution.

I don't know what to do or ask for specifically. I just need help to set this guitar up! What am I missing? I feel like there's something I'm doing wrong since everybody else seem so happy with it and it sounds awesome in videos.

 

[trem licking]

if you order strings from labella, they will taper the winding at the tuning peg for you so that it will fit (they ask you the model of your guitar and/or scale length so that they know where to taper). also, high action on that low F# will be the name of the game... 2~2.5mm or maybe a little more at the 12th fret will probably be necessary to avoid crazy string buzzing off the frets. hope any of this helps... only other thing is to progressively try different gauges till you find what's comfortable to you alongside with the setup

 

[Ivars V]

About the video - Sam Bell plays with a really light touch and thin strings, so there's that. 62 should be plently tight for B. Also, check out nyxl 9-80 set, that would get you some comfortable tension.

 

[Winspear]

The 10-74 set is nonsense and will accentuate the looseness of the 74 due to the fact that the EAD are so extremely tight. It will make the 74 stand out more. The 62 is perfectly reasonable. A more logical progression would be like the 9-80 sets, with a regular EAD, 62 B, and an 80 F#. This should be fine, an 80 is just about tight enough for F# at 25.5

 

[diagrammatiks]

you can slightly drill the tuning peg to make the string fit.

 

[kirlz]

also, high action on that low F# will be the name of the game...

Adjusting the action is a good idea! I'll try that!

About the video - Sam Bell plays with a really light touch and thin strings, so there's that. 62 should be plently tight for B. Also, check out nyxl 9-80 set, that would get you some comfortable tension.

The B string is actually quite good, so you're right about that. I'll try to just switch the F# to an 80 and see how that feels.

The 10-74 set is nonsense and will accentuate the looseness of the 74 due to the fact that the EAD are so extremely tight. It will make the 74 stand out more. The 62 is perfectly reasonable. A more logical progression would be like the 9-80 sets, with a regular EAD, 62 B, and an 80 F#. This should be fine, an 80 is just about tight enough for F# at 25.5

Very useful input! Thanks!

you can slightly drill the tuning peg to make the string fit.

I'm a bit reluctant to do that, but it would of course be nice to not have to unwind strings every time.

 

[rockskate4x]

You will need to get used to low tension if you or going to be able to tolerate a .074 for F# on a 25.5" length. This tension is low, but it is only about as low a .042 for E, which is what you find in a set of .009's. I recommend changing to a set of .009's, and then matching the tension of the low E with a .056 B and a .074 F#

len 25.5
E4 .009 dapl == 13.13#
B3 .011 dapl == 11.01#
G3 .016 dapl == 14.68#
D3 .024 danw == 15.77#
A2 .032 danw == 15.77#
E2 .042 danw == 14.77# normal set of .009 - .042
B1 .056 danw == 14.79# single .056
F1# .074 danw == 14.25# single .074

 

[KnightBrolaire]

there are a couple of options here, which have all been mentioned in previous posts. 1. get custom tapered strings or unwind (too tedious for me personally) 2. find a drill bit about the size of your string or slightly larger and drill out the tuner.
As far as tension goes, I'd try a .86 or so for a useable low E, though if you plan on keeping it at f or F# I'd go for the .80.

 

[Hollowway]

The reason you get the buzzing when you unwind the strings is that the outer winding is no longer fixed in place, and rattles. You can combat that by adding a dab of superglue or something right where you unwound it. It’ll keep it anchored in place.

 

[Lemonbaby]

I recommend changing to a set of .009's, and then matching the tension of the low E with a .056 B and a .074 F#

From my experience that's too thin for the low B. You'll have the usual issues with increased pitch just after pick attack. I need a minimum thickness of 0.060 on my 26.2 inch sevenstring for the low B to intonate properly/stable.

 

[mnemonic]

I don't necessarily think 25.5" is too short for F# though longer scales are more ideal. I have a 27" scale RG8 in F, and if I were to capo the first fret, it would then be 25.5" scale in F#. I've tried going down to E and it held it together okay but the strings were too floppy.

I'm using a set of 9-42 for the first 6, then a 56 and 75 respectively for the 7th and 8th strings. Balances decently.

The problem with 'progressive tension' sets is that even when the lbs of tension are the same, they don't necessarily feel the same. Plus you end up with bridge cables for the lowest string, which might look and feel cool, but generally doesn't sound cool.

With low tuned stuff it really is a balancing act between the sound and the tension. The lower tension tends to sound tighter, brighter, more present, less low end chunk, can bend out of tune more easily when you pick or fret hard. Thicker strings sound darker, less tight, more wooly, more low end chunk, and less likely to go out of tune when strumming.

You just gotta experiment and see what works for you. Many will look at my gauges above and say they're too light. I think Dino Cazares used some crazy light strings on his 8 though, like a 65 low F# or something like that.

Also make sure your nut is filed right for the thickness of the string. Otherwise it will balance on top of the groove of the nut, the action will be way high, and you'll bend it out of tune when you fret.

 

[rockskate4x]

From my experience that's too thin for the low B. You'll have the usual issues with increased pitch just after pick attack. I need a minimum thickness of 0.060 on my 26.2 inch sevenstring for the low B to intonate properly/stable.

different strokes for different folks. I suggested this to match a .042 E because I know that this comes in a standard set of .009's which is light but not so light that people do not commonly use it for standard tuning. I also prefer higher tension, but inharmonicity is already an issue with big strings at 25.5, so for the sake of tone, I believe that getting the lightest tension you can tolerate is the lesser of two evils.

 

[Ericjutsu]

Just drill out the tuning peg to make it large enough. I've done it before with no issues. Also, I would use a .60 for the B and an .80 for the low F#. D'Addario makes a good 8 string set 9-80. I didn't have to file the nut to accommodate the 80. I think anything more than that I would have to though.

 

[kirlz]

Wow, thank you for all the replies! I've managed to find a setting that works reasonably well although I still feel the F# is a bit too floppy.

This is what I did:

• The first set of strings that I bought was by a brand called Rotosound. I then exchanged the F# string from .74 to a D'Addario .80. The .80 is much better, although still a bit too floppy for my taste.
• Ordered a shorter saddle from Hipshot to help with intonation for the two thickest strings. Unfortunately they don't look exactly the same as the original saddles, but they work and that's good enough for me right now.
  
• Drilled the tuning peg to fit the .80. But I quickly noticed that a string that thick is hard to bend around the tuning peg. There's also only room for about two turns around the peg.
  
• I decided to instead try and unwind the D'Addario string and hope that this string wouldn't also break. There was some kind of "glue" between the windings which made the unwinding much harder than for the Rotosound string, but it didn't break!
• I set the action a little higher for the F# to get less buzz.

I'm happy that the guitar stays in tune, isn't buzzing as much as before and feels ok to play. I'll keep the guitar for a while and see if I can get used to loose tension or I'll just switch it for something else eventually.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[Winspear]

Cool It would be worth trying an 85 for feel if you are fairly happy with the tone of the 80.
Worth noting that you don't really need to wind the string around the tuner much. Peg doesn't need more room than 2 winds - 2 winds is already way more than enough I usually have about a third or a half winding on the bottom string.